<p>This is kind of like a "BA or BFA" kind of question, but a bit different. Essentially, I want to know whether I should attend a conservatory program for acting or focus on more of a liberal arts education that has a theatre major. I don't ask this to know which is the better option career wise or whatever, though. It's just that a school with a theatre major wont train me effectively to be an actor after college and I would have to pursue further education to do what I love, which is really just a waste of time in my opinion. I could be learning those things 4 years earlier and starting my life when I graduate. However, I lean towards a strong liberal arts school because I'm really into schoolwork and I guess you can say I have "an act" for school (lol, pun intended). But I worry that I'll become dissatisfied with either option, except that's only me being worrisome. I'm sure, in all actuality, I'd be happy at either, but it would be so disheartening to know that I made the wrong choice after it's too late. I'm equally torn between the two, so any and all opinions are welcome. </p>
<p>Summed up basically:
-I'm positive that acting is something I love
-I'm just as positive that subjects in school are something I love
-I don't know if vocational training or a liberal arts with a major in theatre would be best</p>
<p>If you have any questions that would sway your advice, don't hesitate to ask. And if you saw a question similar to this already, just brush over it. This is a slightly different question and that's why I'm asking over. Also, it would be great if you had any experience and if you could avoid dictating about the difficulties of whatever you feel is necessary, because I'm already conscious of all of that and I already have schools in mind. I just don't know which would be the "more right" option, if that makes any sense.</p>
<p>You are right that you are not asking exactly a “BA or BFA” question. What you are talking about is the exact nature of the curriculum. Many BAs have lots of training (so I think you’re a little misguided in that). Many BFAs have plenty of liberal arts opportunities. You are correct that some programs are completely vocationally focused, in that they have no “academic” subjects (particularly the UK schools). But theatre is a very multidisciplinary subject - even the more training-focused programs will have significant classes in theatre history, literature, etc., and they will expect you to read and write a lot, and study subjects like science when it’s necessary for preparing a scene or play.</p>
<p>What you need to do - I don’t know where you are in this process so forgive me - is look at the curricula at all of the schools you are interested in, and ask a lot of questions at schools you visit. You can probably find a balance of training and “school subjects” in ways that you want and enjoy.</p>
<p>As for what will benefit you in your future, in the field of theatre, you can be successful in any way you prepare, including not studying theatre at all. So do what you enjoy most, and accept the fact that a large number of people decide to get more education or training later in life, no matter what field they are in.</p>
<p>Sorry for the miscommunications:
I know that BAs aren’t the exact opposite of vocational, but I can’t seem to find a school that provides the right balance that I want. The schools that I’m particularly interested in, however, are a bit polar, yet they seem like the best fits for me still (i.e. yale, CMU, etc… each lacks something that I want but they are all very close to my ideal college). The main difference between my choice will ultimately come down to whether I want a more vocational training or more of a liberal training. I have plenty of time to decide that, seeing as I’m only a junior, but it would be very relieving to have an idea of what I want before I have to start applying. That way, I can refine my search more efficiently, and you can never get too much of a head-start. Thanks a lot, though! Your comment made me reevaluate a few things, so thanks again.</p>
<p>"(i.e. yale, CMU, etc… each lacks something that I want but they are all very close to my ideal college)"</p>
<p>Because the application processes for Yale and CMU are so radically different, I think it’s wise of you to began thinking about which path is best for you.</p>
<p>As you may know, getting accepted to a school like CMU is all about the audition season and competing against many kids who have been acting, singing and dancing since a very young age. Most have supportive parents and some have consultants to navigate the logistical maze (flights, cabs, hotels etc…) of the audition season. They will likely be auditioning for 12 or more schools because the odds are so daunting - spacing the auditions out strategically in order to be optimally prepared for their top choice schools. CMU might take 8 or 9 for boys of the hundreds who will try out. Many will be naturally gifted with years of voice, movement and acting classes under their belt. Some will have had years of professional experience.</p>
<p>As you’re probably aware, Yale is a completely different animal - It’s all about test scores, class rank, rigor of schedule, teacher recommendations and depth and breadth of extracurricular activities. You don’t really want to have flaws in any of this areas, and some areas will need to really shine. Not quite as daunting as CMU, but the odds are long here too, so you would want to have a well balanced list of BA schools.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to discourage you. Just wanted to illustrate the challenges of applying to both types of schools.</p>
<p>My opinion (and of course you are free to agree or disagree) is that college shouldn’t be an end in and of itself, it should be a stepping stone to where you REALLY want to be. You seem to understand that the more “vocational” approach is what will prepare you best for the career you want. And you don’t seem to see any “long term” advantage with a liberal arts degree.</p>
<p>Remember that you will actually have some free time, vacations, etc. at any school you go to. You will be able to fill that time with whatever activities fill your personal needs that otherwise aren’t being addressed by your curriculum. </p>
<p>I definitely agree that college is merely a stepping stone, but if I do decide that acting is definitely what I want to do in life, well I’ll need to start early. I mean, almost always, the big roles are held by people who have been in the business since they were children or who had parents in the business. That means that I have barely any time to waste, seeing as I’m already behind. Therefore, I would really enjoy a vocational school that readies me 4 years earlier, although a liberal arts education would just be overall beneficial and maybe even a bit more enjoyable. I don’t know really…</p>
<p>“Almost always, the big roles are held by people who have been in the business since they were children or who had parents in the business.”</p>
<p>Where are you getting this information? There are thousands of actors, in theatre, TV, film and many more areas. How can you make that kind of claim? You’re sounding like you are basing your opinion on what you’ve seen of a very few very famous people, and even with that I’m baffled by this conclusion. Even if we listed all of the Tony and Oscar winners of the past several years, your theory would not pan out.</p>
<p>In addition, you can’t even claim from those incredibly limited groups whether a BA, BFA, acting conservatory (like AMDA) or no training at all will get you “there” faster. </p>
<p>Listen to your doubts. You are expecting answers to something that cannot possibly be predicted. Become educated, trained, and experienced however it feels best to you. If you’re not sure, even in the fall that you apply, then apply to a spectrum of schools. See how you feel in the spring of your senior year, and if you still aren’t sure, take a chance on what feels best. The only truth is you can’t do two things at once - although as you know, you can strike something of a balance if that’s what appeals to you when the time comes.</p>
<p>Sorry about the confusion. What I meant by that was that I did a bit of research a various people who are doing similar to things to what I want to do and from what I’ve read, they all had experience or networking available as a child. I didn’t mean everybody is like that. Just from what I’ve seen with the people I admire (and yes, I looked at a bit (or a lot) more than 5 people lol).</p>
<p>Lolholler, I can promise you that there will be times when you WILL be dissatisfied with whatever choice you make but this is NOT you being worrisome. This is the human condition. I know that sounds awful but hear me out. Some of the people on this forum know exactly what they want to do, but even they will have their doubts. In your case, you want lots of different things and no one school can possibly mirror your complexity. </p>
<p>It’s true that some options rule out other options, yes, but it’s also true that there can be different ways to get to the same place. Moreover, you have to expect that you will learn things and change as a result and even if we could tell you who you are now, that answer wouldn’t be true in a couple of years anyway. </p>
<p>There are no guarantees. You just have to give it your best shot.</p>
<p>“I mean, almost always, the big roles are held by people who have been in the business since they were children or who had parents in the business. That means that I have barely any time to waste, seeing as I’m already behind. Therefore, I would really enjoy a vocational school that readies me 4 years earlier,”</p>
<p>Most graduates become what Betsy Nuell, who runs a thriving business around Washington coaching students for their auditions, calls “working-class actors.” Many find employment in local theaters, on cruise lines and doing voiceover or corporate work. Even among those who make it to Broadway, national tours, film or TV, most remain anonymous. They dance in the chorus; they have bit parts.
Toni Dorfman, Yale’s director of undergraduate theater studies, complains that the “complete these programs and you’ll be a success in theater” mentality “is a disservice” to students. “There’s no way to ensure young people of work in theater, let alone success.” Success, she adds, takes talent, luck and a bit of obsession: “You have to love it so much that you’re willing to put up with the disappointments.”</p>
<p>To add to arwarw’s thoughts here are some stats on union actors in the tv and film biz .</p>
<p>The Screen Actors Guild (SAG) is the nation’s largest labor union representing working actors. With 20 branches nationwide, SAG represents over 125,000 actors. Although a small number of popular actors earn millions of dollars each year, the average income of the majority of Screen Actors Guild members is less than $5,000 per year. Out of all the SAG members, only about 50 might be considered stars.</p>
<p>Loholler, on a personal note, my son who is a child actor with several roles that many would know is looking at BA and BFA programs in theater because he knows that he cannot rest on the fact that he already has an agent and was that cute kid in movies and TV shows when he moves into an adult career.</p>
<p>I see shows in NYC alot and very frequently see actors listed in the Playbill who attended BA institutions, and not the ones mentioned on CC as having strong theater programs. There is no right route to success. And, there is no one way even to define success itself.</p>
<p>Actors are always fighting for that next job. There are a few who have achieved a level of comfort and renown where the jobs come to them, and can choose from among leading roles, but the vast majority of working actors (as arwarw) are always scrapping it out!</p>
<p>I remember reading an interview with the actress who won the Tony for “Venus in Fur” (her name escapes me at the moment). After graduating from Tisch MFA, she was worried that her resume was still too thin! </p>
<p>Just before he got the role in Once, Steve Kazee was despairing for his career (IIRC correctly from an interview I read), but he got that role and won the Tony. And he already had had an active life as an actor and was also a Tisch MFA grad.</p>
<p>I was just reading about a famous TV actress (whose name escapes me at the moment, sorry, I am middle-aged) who is now in a big TV show (name forgot again!) who was ready to go into interior design because of being fed up with how her career was going. Well, now she’s in a hit show, so she’s doing okay. </p>
<p>(good thing I"m not an actor myself; or I’d need the prompter every minute onstage!)</p>
<p>So you really should start getting the experience you need as soon as possible. Especially if you feel you may be “behind”.</p>
<p>I understand what you have been saying about the advantages of a vocational program. But I still don’t understand what you would see as an advantage of a “liberal” program. You say you think it might be “overall beneficial”. But beneficial HOW? Is it more likely to get YOU the life YOU want? Or is it somehow beneficial in some abstract way, to your “soul” or something like that? Can’t you get these “soul” advantages in some other way?</p>
<p>You say you think you might enjoy the liberal program more. Maybe you are right. So you would have four years of enjoyment, followed by what for the rest of your life? Or you can go to the vocational program, work you rear end off for four years, then enjoy the rest of your life.</p>
<p>Personally, I went for a vocational program. And I enjoyed it immensely, even thought it did mean long hours. I enjoyed working on all these shows much more than my experience at other schools where all I did was sit around listening to lectures, writing papers, etc. But that’s just me, your tastes might be very different.</p>
<p>I think I would enjoy a liberal education more bc it incorporates great academics (since I’m very into academic work) with theatre work. However, thew liberal programs I’m interested tend to lack in the theatre department and vice-verse. I would love the long hours of a conservatory program dedicated to what I love to do, but it would be so sad if I couldn’t challenge myself academically. If I were to attend a liberal undergraduate program and a conservatory graduate program, do you think I would miss out on my “prime years” in the business?</p>
<p>I don’t think it has to be liberal vs. vocational – my college certainly isn’t.</p>
<p>There are many types of theatre programs out there. Yes, there are BAs and BFAs, but the structure of these programs still varies widely. There are conservatory programs, semi-conservatory, strictly academic/theoretical studies, and every color in between. And certainly in an acting program, there will not be a lack of “academic work.” There will still be papers to write, journals to fill out, and memorization to be had. You will be required to remember historical dates, time periods, genres, the stylistic differences of playwrights… there is tons of “bookwork” to be done.</p>
<p>If it is not so much the concern of the bookwork in your major, but not being able to explore other areas of study beyond theatre, then yes, that is something you should think about. General education classes will run out eventually, but in a BA (and in some BFAs) electives outside your major are available, if not required over four years. You should ask yourself if you weren’t studying theatre, what else would be happy studying for four years and beyond, remembering that these classes mostly won’t involve studio classes or practicum. Is there some other academic major that would make you just as happy, if not more happy? Maybe that is holding you back, and you should explore that major, or a double major instead.</p>
<p>Basically, try to change your focus. Try not to decide either or, but find a strong group of schools in between. I would suggest you look at programs like Brown and Southern Methodist University, which strongly emphasize interdisciplinary studies while maintaining strong theatre programs. Look for semi-conservatory schools. If you strongly feel liberal arts is the way to go, remember you can still have long hours of practice like you want – get involved in shows and student theatre groups and never say no to an opportunity to act. If you are prioritizing curriculum first, then expand your geographic range of schools. Don’t be afraid to apply to a mix of types of schools: let fate and admissions departments sort things out for you a little bit, and go from there.</p>
<p>Any program worth attending, whether liberal or vocational, is going to be “challenging” in some way or other. Those vocational programs are not easy.</p>
<p>I think you may have grown up in a family where the adults had stereotypes that anything other than Ivy League was something “easy” designed for “stupid people”. That’s the kind of family I grew up in. But it is simply not true. These programs are very challenging, even if they are not in the Ivy League. (And some are very hard to get into, although the emphasis is on audition and interview instead of academic qualifications)</p>
<p>If you find that you need some sort of “academic challenge” in addition to all the challenging work you will be doing, you can go find an academic challenge on your own. Find some difficult books and read them on your own time, or something like that.</p>
<p>Are you going to miss out on your “prime years” if you go to a more academic program as an undergrad then a more vocational program as a grad? I don’t know, because there is no way of knowing which are going to be your “prime years”. Some actors “prime years” are quite late in their life. But it does seem to me that you will be losing three years where you could be playing those younger roles that you will not be able to play when you are older. And on the other hand, college isn’t going anywhere, you can go to college or back to college at any age.</p>
<p>I believe (And anyone is free to disagree) that the focus of college or university should be to get the qualifications you need for your career. Because you don’t need qualifications for a hobby. If you want a career in academics, if you want to be a professor, then you probably want to look at good academic qualifications. But if academics are just sort of a hobby, you don’t need academic qualifications.</p>
<p>But I also agree with the people who are suggesting that you may be overly rigid in you classification of programs into “academic” and “vocational”. Because if you look hard enough, you will find programs that are both. The Ivy League schools pretty much leave out the “vocational” part, so you probably won’t find them there. But there are other programs in the arts that are just as academically challenging and just as prestigious as the Ivies, and combine this with a good vocational training as well.</p>
<p>My D had much of the same dilemma, so I do understand your point of view. I struggled with it, too, although not in the same artistic medium. My D lives and breathes theatre and absolutely plans a career in it, but wanted to have a liberal arts foundation, because she felt that was part of becoming an educated adult. That’s not so unusual, and there are many training programs that provide plenty of academics, and also many BAs that provide plenty of training. It takes some looking - and there are lots of suggestions for schools like that here on this Forum.</p>
<p>In her case, she was accepted into some very fine schools that have very good reputations for theatre BAs. But in the end she chose a not as “elite” University (that does however have many quite respected and very successful alumni) that had the exact combination of coursework that helps her achieve her goal: a broad-based, rigorous auditioned BFA with diverse production experience, and a stand-alone Honors College based on the Great Books. It requires 50% of her credits in theatre, 25% in the Honors College (which also counts for most of her gen eds) and has the remaining 25% for electives or a minor. While she has considered doing a minor, currently, she is not planning to, because she wants to devote that time to additional theatre courses - which would bring her ratio more to 3:1 training vs academics.</p>
<p>Halfway through her college years, she is also experiencing the very common feeling that there will not be enough time to do everything she wants to do, or learn everything she wants to learn. I felt this way in college, and I also felt this way in graduate school. Whether academic or professionally-focused, a program just might not give you enough time to study everything you want to study. Many people use their learning skills from college to teach themselves what they have missed, through self-study, additional courses, or just in their life experience. </p>
<p>It’s possible to have a broad, varied college education. You have to research the curriculum, course schedule, major and other requirements, and ask lots of questions. You have to look at a lot of schools, especially in this field, because the options are so very different.</p>
<p>Mine also viewed it this way. She’d been a high achiever academically all her life and a “real” college degree from a well-respected school was very important to her. You can always take more acting classes.</p>