liberals unite!

College Confidential Community
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<p>And, politicians are corrupt, but usually, there is a checks and balances and a way for governemnt to monitor its own. We see very little of that. Its more protect their own.</p>

<p>And hey, someone who claims to think this war is just spiffy, are you going to go and fight in it or just talk the talk? I never desparaged the troops. I am just curious, are you going yourself? </p>

<p>I would have done WW11, I would have done WWI...I would go on ration stamps, I would do what it took for a legitimate war. I think the soldiers are doing what they need to do, and I honor them for that. I do not honor the people who sent them there. How many Senator's and Representative's family members are there? And when an Iraqi war vet ran for office, it was the Republicans who disparaged his service, not the liberals.</p>

<p>But as someone who supports Bush and the war, are you going? My Uncle was in Vietnam for two tours. He fought with Honor. He is a good man. There was there was a mistake, but the soldiers that went...welll they were good men and women.</p>

<p>So tell me, should we be using Depleted Uranium bullets over there? Why wasn't armor ordered in time>? Why do the soldiers still not have the right equipment? WHy do they get year old rations, while the paid mercenaries get great food? Why?</p>

<p>So I ask again, are you willing to go yourself? It is a perfectly valid question. And that question does nothing to put down our current troops. Are you willing to join them? Are you going to help those that come back with missing limbs, brain damage, with no jobs, with family problems, have you helped the Gulf War vets who are living on the street, need medical care, can't get a job? Are you going to step up? What about all the Iraqi orphans? What have you, personally, sacraficed for this war...</p>

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<p>If my country asked me to fight in Iraq, I would.</p>

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<p>There is no draft, but you will not volunteer, as all the other soldiers have. </p>

<p>So while I honor the soldiers, you will not join them unless forced. I get it now.</p>

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<p>I am not saying you need to run off and enlist. I do not want anymore young people to go over there. But your answer was very telling. When push comes to shove, many people aren't THAT ready to run off and fight in this war. Enlistment numbers are down. We are using reservists, who are being called back after doing what they thought was their duty. And some will go if drafted, but not until then. </p>

<p>It is interesting that many war supporters are all gungho, and say yeah, this war was necessary for our national security, and Bush was right to go in, and even though the reason was changed several times; and back the President, when asked if they will go themselves, won't.</p>

<p>Don't go. But be honest at least with yourself.</p>

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<p>citygirlsmom, although I think it is completely irrelevent if I would enlist, to answer your question, I will most likely be doing Navy ROTC next year, so your answer is yes, I would go over there, and I probably will be going overseas somewhere in 4 years. </p>

<p>Atomicfusion is absolutely correct about the US use of the Atom Bomb. Do you realize how many people Japan had ready to fight? If we were to invade Japan, I forget the exact figure, but MILLIONS were expected to die. Instead we didn't lose any more soldiers, and unfortunately thousands of Japanese died, but still much better than MILLIONS that would have. </p>

<p>Because of that, we avoided another war with the Soviets. We were both on the brink of war, but no one wanted to use the bomb, and as a result a bullet was never fired. Again, MILLIONS could have died. </p>

<p>You say you supported WWII and WWI, why? Are you one of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks I mentioned earlier? Now that you see the result, you agree completely with it. Honestly what was different about WWII than this war? We waited too long in WWII. We didn't get involved until we were attacked. Any longer and Germany would have taken all of Europe. Now we are trying to prevent things from getting that bad. I know that if we had waited, Iraq had started a nuclear war in the mideast, and WWIII, you would have said we should have done something about Iraq earlier.</p>

<p>Oh, and by the way, the people who enlist know the risks involved. It is their job. I don't feel any sympathy for the reserves getting called up. If they don't get called up when there is a war, why are we paying them? So they can sit home? I too will be in the reserves after I serve, and I know full well I could get called up, and I wouldn't complain at all. You know what you are getting yourself into. If you don't want to take the risks, don't take the job. Not to mention the military is overwhelmingly in favor of the war and Bush.</p>

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<p>By do, I mean fight in it. Personally.</p>

<p>I understand the dropping of the two bombs, believe me. I do not need a history lesson from you. All I said was, we dropped the two bombs that have ever been dropped. I made no comment. Yet, I was attacked for talking about American History. You need to think about that. Is a person not allowed to say one sentence about what we have done? I had to learn to duck and cover in the 60's. I saw a concentration camps in Germany. I saw Pearl Harber. I do not need a lesson from you.</p>

<p>And, I know the current history of what is actually going on in Iraq, in Afaganistan, with Korea, with China.</p>

<p>I know what took us to war in Iraq. </p>

<p>What do you think of Depleted Uranium Bullets? What do you think of father's having to by protective gear for their sons who are in Iraq? </p>

<p>Good for you for following through with your convictions. But do not attack another Patriot who may disagree about this war. Attacking another American for doing the democratic thing is denying all we have fought for.</p>

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<p>Well apparently you took the offensive. I stated my facts and you were quick to say I would never fight in Iraq or join the military which ironically was completely the opposite. I don't know what your last comment was supposed to be about, fighting in it personally? </p>

<p>If you aren't bashing America for the bombs, why did you even mention them? That is completely irrelevent to the discussion that was going on. </p>

<p>I really don't get your last comment. I didn't attack you at all, I merely stated my opinion on the issue, and you questioned my integrity. Attacking someone for trying to fight to uphold democracy is denying what we have fought for.</p>

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<p>I was called an America Basher for mentioning the bomb. I asked if you would sign up. </p>

<p>I mentioned the bombs, because, gee it was a fact. A fact. Imagine that.</p>

<p>We also have created chemical weapons, we also did really sick scientific experiments, we also did some great science.</p>

<p>My problem is that when someone ever questions what America has done, past or present, we are called America Bashers. No wait, we don't even have to question. When we state a fact about something America has done, without even making a comment, just stating a fact, we are called America Bashers. </p>

<p>Can we not even state a fact without being called names?</p>

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<p>If you look back a page, all I said was that I believe Iraq had weapons, they are a dangerous country, and we needed to prevent them from starting a war in the mideast. You then come in to basically infer that I would never go to Iraq. </p>

<p>I never called you an America Basher if you look back. The way you said we were the only country that used nuclear weapons came off as though you thought we shouldn't have used them, so atomicfusion and I both tried to explain why we did. I really don't see why you made that comment in the first place, it was quite irrelevent to the war in Iraq. </p>

<p>You seem very quick to jump to conclusions. Read what I say before jumping all over it. You couldn't have been farther from the truth thinking I wouldn't go to Iraq for this.</p>

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<p>For those that are curious about the atomic bomb- here are some links, from both sides of the analysis that might enlighten you:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/894mnyyl.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/894mnyyl.asp&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/atombomb/strange_myth/article.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/atombomb/strange_myth/article.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/atombomb.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/atombomb.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.vw.cc.va.us/vwhansd/HIS122/Hiroshima.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.vw.cc.va.us/vwhansd/HIS122/Hiroshima.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.theenolagay.com/study.html#THE%20DECISION%20TO%20DROP%20THE%20BOMB%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theenolagay.com/study.html#THE%20DECISION%20TO%20DROP%20THE%20BOMB&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.dailyvanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/08/06/42f4f59f0b6fc%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailyvanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/08/06/42f4f59f0b6fc&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Bump Bump Bump</p>

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<p>i was recently at an academic political science bootcamp. we decided that in an ideal world...2008-2016 is hilary. 2016-24 is barack obama.</p>

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<p>For anyone who's interested, see the "Support Gay Marriage?" thread in College Confidential Cafe. We've sparked some pretty interesting (and heated!) debate. lol</p>

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<p>thats not a debate. thats basically the gay marriage people flaming anyone who disagrees. you sad sad man...</p>

<p>you're not going to get too far trying to argue or debate with the purpose of changing someones mind. its the very rare person who will actually say 'thats a better reason than any i can think of'. and in most cases there arent any points for either side that even have that potential.</p>

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<p>um, no que, it is a debate. plain and simple. Two opposing views arguing their case, giving valid reasons why they support or disagree with gay marriage And there is no need to attack me for calling me "a sad sad man". You don't even know me. I am really insulted.</p>

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<p>Debate is what this country was founded on... read your history, read about the DEBATES that took place in creating the Declaration of Independence, read the history of the creation of the Consitution</p>

<p>To claim debates are not useful is not understanding the purpose of them.
Maybe some people don't listen to ideas, others thoughts and are close minded, many people are not.</p>

<p>And to call names and try and insult people, that is indeed sad. When people resort to name calling, they have indeed lost the debate. And, to me, once names are called and personal insults made, the name caller loses all credibility.</p>

<p>GreenDayFan, I applaud your passion and insight. Do not let people that have to resort to such a lo level get you. They are just not worth it.</p>

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<p>first off, i guess that is representative of the arguments in congress...:D</p>

<p>solid civilized debate is a necessary activity for a functioning democracy. i was not claiming they were useless, i was claiming you should rethink your stated reasons for debating. debates help people explore an issue from every angle, learning all the perspectives. they help you and others explore your ideas and the basis for them. that is why debates are useful.</p>

<p>debating to change someones mind is pointless because to do so for many people you must change the mental process they went through to arrive at that opinion. you have to change a pattern of reasoning thats been deeply ingrained in them. they've probably been thinking that way most of their life, what makes you special enough to change it?</p>

<p>refering to the gay marriage thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1131873&postcount=58%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1131873&postcount=58&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1132145&postcount=69%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1132145&postcount=69&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1132192&postcount=70%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1132192&postcount=70&lt;/a>
etc.</p>

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<p>Debate has a very important purpose, even if no minds are changed. It can show the true colors of people that make certain statements. And it put things on the record.</p>

<p>For instance, if I am discussing gay marriage, and someone says, well, gay marriage is bad because it hurts straight marriage, so I am against it. I can ask why...get some "reasons"...and I can show show how they may nor may not be correct...</p>

<p>A good debater learns both sides of an argument. If I want to show that I support gay rights, I need to understand what the opponents are thinking, and how will I ever know that if I don't make points, ask questions, get reponses.</p>

<p>Debate is not soley to change minds. It is to present a case and share information.</p>

<p>My D had a debate on the death penalty. She had facts. She had passion. She had information. People came up to her and said, I didn't know that. She may not have changed any minds, but at least information was out there. </p>

<p>And special enough, excuse me, you have another dig?</p>

<p>No one said anything about changing minds. We can hope for that. </p>

<p>There was and is a very passionate debate on this site regarding Intelligent Design. I was told emphatically that the proponents of ID has no agenda and did not themselves claim the Intelligent Designer was God. i found quotes from those very same proponents that showed they did think the IDer was God. I never changed their minds, but I did show that their facts were not accurate. Will I change their minds. Don't think so. But I showed I could back up my points. You know what happened when I did that. I was called names....mymymmy</p>

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<p>^^ </p>

<p>i believe you just said pretty much the same thing that i did in the previous post...</p>

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<p>Hmmm... I am still wondering what America will do regarding Iraq and North Korea.</p>