<p>Oh my Collegehelp.</p>
<p>As a fellow graduate of Cornell, I will offer you the same advice I would offer Ann Coulter: </p>
<p>Please, please stop. You’re not helping.</p>
<p>tokenadult-
My data comes from IPEDS. Applicants per opening is about 30% higher in the Ivy League collectively than the next 10 schools and it was about 30% higher 5 years ago…no recent change to speak of.</p>
<p>I also like the revealed preference rankings very much. But, they beg the question “Why are some schools preferred?” Cornell is the lowest ranked Ivy, surpassed only by other Ivies, Stanford, and some special interest schools. Special interest schools include the top tech schools MIT and Caltech, 3 “little Ivies” Amherst, Swarthmore, and Wellesley (all women), and Notre Dame (Catholic). I think special interest factors account for some of the schools ranked above Cornell. Stanford, Amherst, and Swarthmore are simply Ivy peer institutions. Mind you, they are all great schools.</p>
<p>Students may prefer a school for many reasons, including financial aid. Cornell offeres to smallest average scholarship amount in the Ivy League, and lower average scholarships than the next 10 schools. Cornell also offeres scholarships to a slighly smaller percent of freshmen. Cornell is probably losing some of these head-to-head “competitions” because of financial aid, not because of appeal. How many, I don’t know.</p>
<p>The OP asked about life at an Ivy League and so far I think I am the only poster who has given the OP a truthful answer. Aside from my reply, the thread has been dominated by drama queens and by the almost-Ivy locusts who devoured the thread.</p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with wanting to attend an Ivy league school purely for the name; I’d say that’s why most people pick prestigious schools anyway. But yes, there are 3 tiers within the Ivy League itself, with HYP being at the pinnacle. The other 2 “tiers” don’t offer as much name-recognition as the first, obviously…and some non-Ivy schools may surpass those in prestige.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: It’s just a feeling I get, on a certain level.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I can point to concrete things like the foundation and growth of the Ivy Council (ivycouncil.org) and the IvyGate Blog. As I recall from my babblings-on-nationalism class, the existence of media establishing an imagined community serves to reinforce and perpetuate that community identity. Also whenever any Ivy college paper has graphs or articles comparing something (acceptance rate, endowment, etc) to “peer schools” they are almost invariably the other 7 Ivy schools. Northwestern may have more in common with Penn in terms of the kind of institution it is, but that’s just not part of the “imagined community”.</p>
<p>That and the eternal worldwide over-use of the “Ivy League” name.</p>
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<p>When the OP asked about life at an Ivy league school, she specified “How much work, freetime etc.” All CollegeHindrance did was proclaim all Ivies to be the land of milk and honey, where magic pixies sprinkle knowledge dust over you as you sleep, and law schools and Wall Street bond trading firms come to worship at your feet and shower you with gold, frankincense, myrhh, and BMWs. That is a “truthful answer” only in the bizarro world this ■■■■■ inhabits. </p>
<p>SweetGirl1991 - many of the posters (the ones who do not suffer from delusions of grandeur) have pointed out that these are eight different schools and there is no one single Ivy League life. </p>
<p>I go back to my original question: Why do you “really want to go to an Ivy League school” when you don’t yet know much about them? Really wanting to go to a school should come after you have learned something about it. Generally, it’s a good idea to ask questions, gather information, analyze and evaluate the data, and then draw conclusions. At least, that is what I learned in my inferior, non-Ivy League education.</p>
<p>From your username, I’d guess you are 17 years old, a high school junior, and somewhere in the college search process. Have you visited any colleges yet? Try visiting some near you – different kinds – urban, small town, rural, large, small, big-time athletics, big-time academics, public and private. At first, it’s not even important that they be schools you are seriously considering attending. It’s just important that you start learning. At every one you will find out something that you want or need in a college or something that you don’t want or need. Pretty soon you will be ready to start targeting schools based on what you have learned. You need to visit and tour, walk around, talk to some students and professors, observe the culture and personality of the school, kick the tires and take a test drive. I’ve known many who “fell in love” with a school and “just knew” it was the place for them after they had visited. The ones who say they love a school before they ever visit are just in love with the idea of the school. If one of the Ivy League schools is the one for you, then that is great. Just don’t make the mistake of confusing being in love with the idea of a school with being in love with the school.</p>
<p>BerkeleySenior: Well, yes, there is something wrong with wanting something purely for the name. Aside from the intellectual, moral, and ethical problems it can cause you, there is the problem that you are an easy mark for every scam, con man, and marketing scheme. You’ll do anything and pay anything if they can get you to want it purely for the name. Not even out of college yet and you’re already owned.</p>
<p>–K9Leader</p>
<p>A lot of you need to stop judging the OP and answer her question instead. It’s not your responsibility to educate her regarding the value or lack thereof of the Ivy label.</p>
<p>Here’s my take on your question:</p>
<p>HARVARD=cutthroat students, hard academics and elitist(Final Clubs)
YALE=laid-back student body, vibrant social life and somewhat elitist(Secret Societies)
PRINCETON=hard academics(grade deflation), preppy students and very elitist(Eating Clubs)
PENN=social ivy, pre-professional student body and traditional social life(alcohol/hooking up/frat parties)
DARTMOUTH=isloated location, preppy students and very traditional social life(lots of alcohol/life centered around frats)
BROWN=quirky/hippy student body, easy academics and very liberal attitudes(drug culture)
COLUMBIA=hard academics, New York City=social life and cosmopolitan student body
CORNELL=rural location, broad level of difficulty in academics and varied social life(frats or small gatherings)</p>
<p>Dr. Evil:</p>
<p>And I see that you believe it to be your responsibility to pass on stereotypes, half-truths, prejudices, misconceptions, and simplistic judgements about schools you have no basis to speak about. You might be qualified to give one student’s opinion about the school where you play ultimate frisbee on the quad. </p>
<p>Part of getting an education is coming to know how much you don’t know. I guess you haven’t taken that class yet - maybe next semester.</p>
<p>K9Leader</p>
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<p>So if someone asked, “What’s life in Europe like?” you think it would be inappropriate to fix their misconception that Europe is one uniform body in which all experiences will be similar?</p>
<p>Haha, are you serious K9Leader? You do realize the entire premise of these boards is for individuals to share opinions correct? It is up to the OP to disseminate the pieces of info she seems valid based on multiple opinions. If you feel differently about some of the typical characteristics of the Ivy League schools, then go ahead and share them. There’s no need to belittle someone else’s opinion.</p>
<p>
Yes absolutely, Kelsey. I would share my perception on what life is like in Europe because that’s THE ONLY LENS through which I can accurately answer the question. I would also add the disclaimer explaining my sources for the information I presented(such as if I lived in a certain part of Europe, my info is from friends, etc.) If I had no frame of reference at all, then I would simply refraining from answering the person’s questions or just say “I don’t know”. It isn’t my duty to fix anyone’s perception of anything. It’s a subjective question so I will give a subjective answer.</p>
<p>“Also whenever any Ivy college paper has graphs or articles comparing something (acceptance rate, endowment, etc) to “peer schools” they are almost invariably the other 7 Ivy schools. Northwestern may have more in common with Penn in terms of the kind of institution it is, but that’s just not part of the “imagined community”.”</p>
<p>Oh, I see your point and I agree that NU is not part of Penn’s “imagined community” or vice versa. My question is, though, does that or should that matter if I’m a hs senior evaluating colleges for which ones might best fit my needs? IOW, are the merits and “feel” of the original college enough or should our hs senior also take into account the “imagined community”? Aside from IvyGateBlog and athletic competitions, I have no reason to believe that the average Ivy student spends any more time interacting with students at any other given Ivy, than any similar college student interacts with students at schools other than their own (things like consortia excluded).</p>
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<p>That’s exactly what other people are doing by discussing the fact that classifying all of the ivies under one umbrella is really missing a significant point. Saying “life at Penn will be different from life at Yale and might be closer to life at <em>such-and-such nonIVY</em> than to any other IVY” is just like if you said, “I live in rural england and that will be different from life in Paris.”</p>
<p>I think the question the OP asked (“How much work, freetime etc…so I can make the right choices.”) implied that he or she is early in the process and doesn’t know a lot about college life in general, and everyone else is just trying to give advice they believe to be relevant. What’s wrong with that?</p>
<p>Evil:</p>
<p>The premise of these boards is for discussion, which often includes the sharing of opinions. There is a responsibility, however, to provide some context to your opinions, to give some idea of upon what those opinions are based, especially when those opinions are critical and potentially hurtful or offensive.</p>
<p>It is extremely unlikely that you have the knowledge, expertise, or experience to give any credibility to your opinions on the Ivy League institutions. Let’s see, you’re 19 years old, just finishing up your freshman year at a highly-ranked, well-known, respected university that is not one of the Ivy League schools. You did well in high school, gpa and SAT-wise, and applied to several, maybe even all of, the Ivies. You either didn’t get in to any of them, or, if you did, it wasn’t to any of the ones you really wanted, and there may be some resentment over that. So, you haven’t really spent much time at any of these schools, a three hour tour and info session was probably about it for most of them, maybe you went back for a second visit to a couple or to visit someone you know who attends there. But, really, nothing that gives your opinion any credibility beyond that of someone who is young and foolish and doesn’t yet know it.</p>
<p>But, hey, that’s just my opinion.</p>
<p>K9Leader</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure the ivies are unofficially divided into 2 “tiers” not 3…</p>
<p>sweetgirl1991-
I trust you are able to sort through this catfight. There are not too many “athletic conferences” that command such interest LOL.</p>
<p>I also wanted to tell you that the Ivies will broaden your horizons. There is great diversity of all types. Many international students, diversity of talents and interests, diversity in opportunities, diversity in ideas. There is no richer environment for growth-personal, intellectual, social.</p>
<p>There is a sophisticated demeanor at the Ivies…very pleasant to experience. I think you would find discussions lively and smart. Role models - students and faculty - exhibit maturity. There are values implicit in the quality of interactions with others. It’s a wonderful environment. You won’t leave after four years unaffected. You’ll be well educated, and you will grow as a person.</p>
<p>If going to an Ivy is your dream, go for it.</p>
<p>pizzagirl: you are right in that no, the imagined community shouldn’t matter. But much like the imagined communities that make up nation states, they matter because humans are irrational by nature. </p>
<p>As for interacting with other ivies more so than others, most of my friends in long distance relationships are dating other nearby Ivy students. Two friends in my singing group are dating Princeton girls. I’ll refer to them as Benedict and Arnold 
I have more friends at Harvard than I do friends at nearby Drexel and Temple universities combined. Same goes for Yale, Columbia, and Princeton. (can’t say the same for Brown Dartmouth Cornell…oops!)</p>
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<p>I’m pretty sure it is 3. The first consist of HYP. The others you can decide for yourself. ;)</p>
<p>Life at an Ivy is different for each person, as well as for each school. Each of them is large enough, as are many, many schools, to support a wide diversity of experience. It’s not fair to say that there is one experience at all schools. Even if they all were exactly the same, there would not be one experience. There are thousands of students at each of these schools and each of them has a different life there. Artists, athletes, scientists, linguists, writers, musicians, philosophers… obviously. So, how can anyone generalize it into one experience? Some people might absolutely love one school, and others might absolutely hate it. The college process is so subjective, and that is the main experience. If you are set on going to an Ivy League school, for whatever reason, go visit and see for yourself. You will be able to tell in a little while if what you see there is right for you. But don’t limit yourself. You might dislike all of them and prefer others. No judgment. Also, you can’t really rely on this site, as much as I love it. People are going to be loyal to their own schools, no matter where they are. They are not going to say, “Oh, I am paying xxx thousands of dollars to go to such-and-such school which I really don’t like.” In those situations, people will probably transfer to try to find happiness. So, you’re not going to get realistic information by asking such an unfocused question. Try asking less provocative questions and direct them to one school at a time.</p>
<p>"I also wanted to tell you that the Ivies will broaden your horizons. There is great diversity of all types. Many international students, diversity of talents and interests, diversity in opportunities, diversity in ideas. There is no richer environment for growth-personal, intellectual, social.</p>
<p>There is a sophisticated demeanor at the Ivies…very pleasant to experience. I think you would find discussions lively and smart. Role models - students and faculty - exhibit maturity. There are values implicit in the quality of interactions with others. It’s a wonderful environment. You won’t leave after four years unaffected. You’ll be well educated, and you will grow as a person."</p>
<p>And the exact same thing can be said about any of the non-Ivies that are still at the elite level.</p>
<p>I wonder how anyone would define “demeanor” well enough at any college to be able to measure it accurately.</p>