Life at the Naval Academy

<p>Many on this forum, including current mids, navy2010, NativeTexan, Bill,juliemrn, profmom, rjrzoom, and grad/dad have made important contributions to the discussion about recent changes at USNA. Overall, I would have to agree with rjrzoom's observation, "...I don't know what the right combinations or amount of EC's makes sense, what I do know is that when pendulums swing they don't just stop in the middle and that's unfortunate." Personally, I'm reserving judgment until things settle down and any major changes become official.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if Admiral Fowler radically alters "Life at the Naval Academy," they had better start editing the United States Naval Academy Catalog now! I'm looking at the copy that was sent to my mid when she became an official candidate, 2004-2005. In the section "Life at the Naval Academy," there is a summary and pullout chart of the Naval Academy's four-year program. In addition to a description of plebe summer and the academic year, this section addresses other significant aspects of a midshipman's training and life in the Brigade. If the pendulum swings too far, the catalog will have to reflect changes in the following areas:</p>

<p>Leadership Responsibilities
Religious Activities
Recreation
Spectator Sports
Social Events
Cultural Affairs Program
Midshipman Action Group-Making a Difference in the Community (two pages in the catalog devoted to this program)
Extracurricular Activities (two more pages with a list of ECs and photos of glee clubs, musicals, musical groups, etc.) </p>

<p>The Naval Academy is a rich, dynamic, challenging institution dedicated to training tomorrow's military leaders. It attracts many of the best and brightest in our diverse nation. Let's hope it continues to maintain and improve on its excellent tradition.</p>

<p>Have we got to the point of such dislike for this admiral that some of us are looking in a 2004-2005 catalog and want the current catalog edited? The man has only been there for two months. Some changes will be permanent while others will not. Let the dust settle. When there is a change at my job it takes time to iron out the wrinkles. He is doing what he feels is best for the Academy. I may not agree with every change and I am sure there are some who are telling him that some of these changes are not working. Let the system work. Admiral Fowler, like us all, is answerable to his superiors.</p>

<p>"Personally, I'm reserving judgment until things settle down and any major changes become official."</p>

<p>So what was the purpose of the post? I am sure that all of us parents are aware what is in the USNA catalog. I am not trying to inflame just curious of the purpose of the post?</p>

<p>mdlrnc, </p>

<p>I didn't start this thread, but if I'm allowed to make an observation I think you could characterize usna09mom's posting as the following; If the USNA is changing in a substantive way and those changes fundamentally impact the experience a Mid has there, prospective candidates should have the opportunity to understand those changes prior to showing up for Plebe summer. Truth in advertising?</p>

<p>It seems, and I may be wrong, that this would leave a prospective candidate scratching their head and asking; "What are they talking about?" There have been changes made at the Academy that may or may not become permanent. Since you, as a perspective candidate, have nothing to compare this to please feel free to ask questions. Here are some of the changes:
Study times have been increased - Since you do not know what the old study hours were. Do not worry about it.
Extra Curricular Activities have been reduced - There is not an official list so I would wait before looking into this.
Attending meals are mandatory - Once again, since you have not been there I would not worry about it.
Liberty has been curtailed - Once again ........
There has been a menu change - Once again......
I, like the rest of us parents, can only go by what my son tells me. The only change that he has heard a grumble about is study time cutting into their work out time. My son is involved in many EC's. He has more than enough food. He has liberty off the yard. If these changes are to be permanent I am sure that it will be reflected in the USNA catalog i.e; removing EC's and such. The admiral has been the supe for two months. All this may be permanent or he might be gone in two weeks. Plebe summer is in June. I am sure that any candidate who receives an appointment is well aware of what the United States Naval Academy has to offer. There will be many opportunities for candidates to get the full picture.</p>

<p>Actually, I would give a prospective candidate much more credit and would assume they would look at some posts and perhaps more importantly the statements made and letters published by the new Supt and compare them to their understanding and expectations for their experience at the Naval Academy. I don’t think any individual capable of an Academy appointment would believe conditions are static and don’t change even within the administration of a single Supt. . </p>

<p>
[quote]
There have been changes made at the Academy that may or may not become permanent.

[/quote]
So how then do you make a decision? You could also make that assessment about almost any aspect of life. Take marriage for example…marriage may or may not be a permanent part of your life. I assume if you conduct yourself with the expectation the marriage may change and not be a permanent part of your life experience I can assure you it will change, not necessarily for the better. </p>

<p>Part of the “turmoil” that you see when you read some of the posts here has everything to do with respondents reacting to the statements or individual interpretations of the changes at the Academy and little if anything to do with the actual changes; perceived or real. Add in our subjective assessments of what needs (or not) to be changed, New Supt. vs. Old Supt. issues and camps, some genuinely concerned parents of Mids and you get to where we are now.<br>
I’ll take a dialog and the opportunity to communicate with others; like minded or not, on a subject that interest me, to the alternative any day.</p>

<p>I have to be honest. All of this has me scratching my head. Here's my fundamental question, while all these collateral issues are being debated ad nauseum... </p>

<p>What motivates a young man or woman to attend the U.S. Naval Academy?</p>

<p>I certainly hope their primary motivators are not the idyllic Annapolis setting, the broad scope of extracurricular activites, the outstanding footbal program. First and foremost, I hope that anyone who applies to the Naval Academy does it out of a desire to serve... serve their military, their nation, their fellow man. Everything else aside, this is a military academy, not a college, not a university. </p>

<p>The U.S. Naval Academy has the best job placement program in the nation, serving as Navy and Marine Corps officers. That's why the American taxpayers fund your son or daughter's education. If that's not what you came here for, if that's not what your son or daughter came here for, then perhaps you came for the wrong reasons. </p>

<p>If the extracurricular activities or athletic programs or typical "college experiences" are more important than the fact that your son or daughter will soon be leading troops in war, will be responsible for the very lives of young men and women, then it may be that a reality check is in order.</p>

<p>We do our future junior officers a grave disservice if we don't do everything possible to prepare them for the realities of leading troops who are serving in harm's way.</p>

<p>There is do doubt in my mind that the vast majority of young men and women attend service academies out of a desire to serve their country. I don’t think that is at issue. I don’t think the number of ECs that are or are not offered today will have much of an impact on those that aspire to attend. I don’t think that was the point of the thread. I think all that was being said is tell it like it is, and then let the applicants make up their mind. If the changes somehow impact their decision to attend, better to find out before I-day. </p>

<p>I had a senior NCO in my division, that at least in theory reported to me.. After more than 12 years of service he was still cursing his recruiter for "lying" to him about how basic would unfold and when he’d get home to his family. The Naval Academy is for many, the first opportunity for a young man or woman to experience military service, should we not try at the very beginning to establish a level of trust or honesty in our representations? That is not to say we don’t know when it comes to military service everything is subject to change as the requirements of our service and the mission change. How we treat circumstances that are beyond our control is one thing that is not at issue here.</p>

<p>rjr, I totally understand your point, and agree completely. We definitely should be honest in our representations about what USNA is and what is expected of its students and its graduates. </p>

<p>Perhaps part of the current situation stems from the fact that, in recent years, USNA was touted as a great school with a reputation for academic excellence and a broad spectrum of extracurricular activities, without enough emphasis on the fact that it is, when all is said and done, a military academy? Maybe there is a possibility that families came into the situation with a sense of false expectations.</p>

<p>Check out this interesting article posted in the Columbia Spectator, written by the sister of a current mid. It's unfortunate that it took this family dropping off their son on I-Day before they realized that this is, in fact, a military academy.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.columbiaspectator.com/node/26470%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.columbiaspectator.com/node/26470&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The Truth About the Academies
By Idris Leppla
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 7, 2007</p>

<p>The following is the first part of a four-part series. The author wishes to express that this article in no way reflects the feelings and thoughts of her brother. It is written from a family member’s perspective and is mean to be understood in that way. </p>

<p>I know why I chose Columbia: the campus is magnificent, the education is top-tier, and my peers are intelligent. I could look at a stranger, tell him or her that I went to Columbia, and hear the predictable, “Wow, you must be smart.” </p>

<p>When my brother was getting ready to go to the Naval Academy, everyone ooohed and awed about how brave he was. Aunts and uncles would say, “John, you must be one of thousands of kids who wanted to go—you must be so smart!” When he appeared unsure about whether he wanted to choose Navy or University of California, Berkeley, one uncle who works on Wall Street said, “John, businessmen love hiring people from the academies. You will be set for life.” With that kind of promised prestige, my brother found it tough to give up a spot at Navy. So in June, my family dropped him off in Annapolis.</p>

<p>Before he left, my family had countless talks about what it might mean to be at an academy. While we knew that someday he would be required to serve, we also were drawn to the top-tier education he was promised to receive. We were told that the Naval Academy was first and foremost an elite college. He would be able to learn history, economics, political science, and even engineering. He would play lacrosse on a nationally ranked team and play the bugle in the marching band. He would have seminars about leadership and selflessness. He would even go to school for free. </p>

<p>When I talked to my brother about why he wanted to go, he admitted that it was because he was drawn to the structure of the place—as a kid who did not want to sit around and drink beer during college, he liked the fact that he would be busy and have a purpose. I soon became comfortable with the idea of the academy, as if it would be a haven for my brother’s undergraduate career. And when people would congratulate me on my brother’s decision, it made me feel reassured.</p>

<p>Soon that pride turned to anger and fear: after my mom dropped him off at Annapolis, she came home with an acute sense of grief. The only thing she could talk about was how to get him out. In addition to missing his presence at home, she was scared by the extent to which her son had suddenly become the property of the U.S. Navy. </p>

<p>She begged me to call a naval lieutenant Monday morning to start the out-processing forms for my brother. After leaving countless messages for the lieutenant, he finally called me back, at which point he informed me that my brother would have to go through 13 exit-interviews to be dismissed, including an interview with the head of the Navy. When I asked him whether this might intimidate him out of leaving, the lieutenant reminded me that my brother had signed an oath legally binding him to the Navy. When I reminded the lieutenant that he had signed that oath after he had been yelled at all day and that his hair had just been shaven off during his first day there, he comforted me that John was not at all forced to sign the oath. </p>

<p>When I looked at the course catalogue, which boasted seminars about leadership and selflessness, they were in fact seminars about weaponry and leading troops into combat. The reality of sending my brother to the Naval Academy began to set in: this was not a school; this was the military. While they boast a first class education, the main goal of this institution was to get my brother “combat ready.” During the first two “induction days,” the head of the Navy openly admitted that their goal was to transform these boys into men who would willingly die defending our country. They said to my parents, “We will manage to do in 18 minutes what you could not do in 18 years—we will discipline your boys and have them calling you Sir and Ma’am.” When they talked of courage and bravery, they showed a video of a Navy marine rounding off an unlimited supply of ammunition. During my brother’s plebe summer (his first summer), he could not talk to us for more than a few minutes once a week for fear that we might unduly influence him. </p>

<p>My brother ended up liking Annapolis and he has decided to stay. While it has been difficult for me to accept that I have a brother in the military, I must allow him to pursue whatever path he is drawn toward, and he has admitted to me that he feels called to being there. However, for anyone else out there considering a career in the academy, let it be known: the U.S. Naval Academy is not an elite college; it is first and foremost a branch of the U.S. military and the prestige comes at a big price—it taxes parents, siblings, and participants if they do not understand what they were signing up for.</p>

<p>Just a note (and I'm apprehensive to even post this because posts get so misconstrued around here lately that I'll probably stir someone's ire, but here goes...).</p>

<p>When our son decided on USNA (fulfilling a desire that first surfaced around age ten), the amount of liberty he would have was not even a consideration (didn't think he's get much), the EC's didn't matter, the study hours were irrelevant (he expected many & daily), the sports program was appealing, but not why he chose Navy & the food was not an issue either (altho' I had purchased both editions of "Brigade, Seats!" and was expecting an impressive dining experience for him - ha!).</p>

<p>I have to believe that our son was/is not unique in that he would've chosen Navy even if there was NO liberty, MINIMAL food & CONSTANT study. Actually, I think that is what he prepared for mentally. Everything else is just an added, unexpected benefit! I think he anticipated the whole four years to be like Plebe Summer! (and he STILL wanted to go there!).</p>

<p>Prepare for the worst, then anything better is a pleasant surprize! </p>

<p>But granted, we are a military family... </p>

<p>But surely he isn't THAT unique among the mids - wouldn't most of them have chosen USNA no matter what the challenges, sacrifices, hardships, commitment??</p>

<p>^^^^
It is sad but true, that there are quite a few candidates, along with their families, who do not know what they are getting into when they accept an appointment to a "prestigious" service academy. That is precisely the reason that USNA has summer seminars and candidate visitation weekends. Serious candidates avail themselves of those opportunities so thay can make informed decisions.</p>

<p>Well I will say it never ceases to amaze me that people could misunderstand the mission and objective of an institution that is called “The United States Naval Academy” and have to fall back on a news article with the headline “the Truth about the Academies” to get straightened out.</p>

<p>Obviously given the behavior of the mother described there, much more was going on within that family than we cannot possible understand from such a “news” piece. </p>

<p>
[quote]
the head of the Navy openly admitted that their goal was to transform these boys into men who would willingly die defending our country.

[/quote]
Really? They actually admitted to encouraging young men and women to consider the possibility of personal sacrifice for a greater cause? In this country?
Good grief. Well I’m glad we got that out in the open. </p>

<p>The saddest thing about crap like this is the fact that for many in our nation, people will read this and say, “that’s awful, how could they do that”. Military service is a concept that has lost much of it’s relevance to our everyday life. I have mixed feelings about having an all volunteer arm service, in part for reasons such as this. On top of that as our military continues to shrink relative to our national population, those that serve are becoming more and more isolated from those that don’t. Far too many people have no concept of what service means or what sacrifices are required and made those that do serve on a daily basis.</p>

<p>^^^^^^</p>

<p>bz, GA, I totally agree. </p>

<p>We're also a military family. My son told me during PPW that he had expected plebe summer to be much, much more demanding physically and mentally - and that he had prepared himself for a lot more than was given him. </p>

<p>As a mother, even knowing that he was beginning his studies at a military academy, it was incredibly difficult for me to say goodbye at the end of the PPW. The degree of separation I was going to have to accept in order for my son to attend USNA was overwhelming as we stood outside Bancroft on Sunday afternoon. </p>

<p>My son, seeing my eyes red and my hands shaking, put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Bearing, Mom. Bearing." Those words have gotten me through many a rough patch over the last few weeks, and I expect that they will for a long time to come.</p>

<p>"Soon that pride turned to anger and fear: after my mom dropped him off at Annapolis, she came home with an acute sense of grief. The only thing she could talk about was how to get him out. In addition to missing his presence at home, she was scared by the extent to which her son had suddenly become the property of the U.S. Navy." Idris Leppla</p>

<p>Only the casual bystander would accept this narrative to be anything more than an aberration. The current 85+percent graduation rate at USNA reinforces the notion that this author is describing an isolated incident that says more about the mother's emotional state than the midshipman's expectations. The majority of candidates are pretty well informed about the mission and life in the Brigade before they take the oath on I-day. They are fully aware that their goal is to become exemplary naval officers, especially after completing the rigorous service academy application process that requires candidates to be triple qualified, i.e., physically, medically, and academically qualified; along with the BGO and congressional interview/nomination, Summer Seminar, candidate visitation weekends, USNA website, op-info, USNA catalog, Navy Sports websites, and maybe even a year at a prep school or a couple years in the Fleet/marines. How could they not have a pretty good idea of USNA's mission?</p>

<p>If you choose to read that article by clicking the link provided, take a look at some of the comments being made by others who have read it.</p>

<p>Some of my favorites:</p>

<p>
[quote]
.....The article is ill-informed and inaccurate, and disrespects the author's brother and his choice.....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
.....The academy is a MILITARY school, DUH!!!!!!!!!!!! .....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
.....I am very sorry that your ignorance at your brother's situation has led to your writing of this article....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Someone also posted an article entitled:

[quote]
....The Truth About the Colleges.....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My favorite:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Good thing we don't get Army Generals as Supts.</p>

<p>^^^^
Right - wonder what the reaction on this forum would be if we did!</p>

<p>I like this thread. This kind of information & discussion is / would be invaluable for potential candidates. I believe that every opportunity should be taken to understand what one is getting himself into - not just at a Service Academy, but in the military in general.</p>

<p>Hope those with insight & experience will continue to post here.</p>

<p>... and NOT just turn it into another thread full of griping. This could be very constructive! This thread is an opportunity to help some young people make informed decisions about a very very important aspect of their lives.</p>

<p>So - let me add to that that the Navy has been good to us as a family. We've traveled a lot, husband was able to finish his education while active duty and worked his way up thru the ranks from E-3 to O-3. BUT it did not come without sacrifices, separation, anxiety. Yeah, he was gone a lot, but we were lucky - he only missed one of the boys' first birthdays! He was around for all their births, but had to report for duty within 2 hrs of one of them. And thank God he made it to retirement alive & well. No one on this forum probably has to be reminded how many other service members have not been so lucky. But in the interest of keeping things positive, I will say that we've been thankful to have had the opportunity to be a Navy family.</p>

<p>It's not for everyone, but if you've got the "calling", it can be rewarding in a very profound way.</p>

<p>...and I don't want to forget to mention that, in the military, you will be surrounded with some of the most selfless, dedicated & professional people you'd ever want to meet. Now THAT was a priveledge!!</p>

<p>I can kind of relate to the Columbia U story. Our neighbor, an elderly "gentleman" had mom convinced that the Navy enlisted ranks were fillled with those individuals that were too rough for the federal prison system. She not only did not cancel my back-up school application but sent in money for room and board. When the time came to register for classes, she did that too. Each letter I received Plebe Summer ended with a "are you sure you are okay?" I imagine that no one knew I wasn't coming to State IU until I missed whatever the requisite number of classes to dictate a failing grade. Somewhere out there in cybespace I am sure that I have a single semester zero grade point average for a full load of courses which somehow is going to come back to haunt me.</p>

<p>
[quote]
after my mom dropped him off at Annapolis, she came home with an acute sense of grief.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>my $.02</p>

<p>Grief? You bet!
I'm a mom from a non-military family who dropped off my son at USNA this past summer. I knew in my mind that the military separation from my son would be severe, but it was harder than I imagined. This was my first child leaving the nest. Two days after PPW, I had to take his twin brother to "State U" leaving only the little sister, now a HS junior, at home. I just had 2/5 of my house cut away. I had to begin to deal with a separation that I had never experienced. </p>

<p>Pride? Even greater!<br>
That's the main reason, aside from the Grace of God (am I allowed to say that here?), that kept me sane. I am immensely proud of both of my boys, whose records are stellar I might add. I wouldn't change their life choices if I could. Who am I to tell any of my children that they cannot pursue the dreams that they were designed to fulfill? I spent 18 years teaching them and grooming them to make good decisions, and they both made the right decision for themselves.</p>

<p>While I miss both of my sons, I'm onto the next chapter in the book of life - getting my daughter ready for her decisions. Will I be more ready this time? Well, having been through it? Maybe, but this is my daughter and my youngest. We'll see when the time comes. :-)</p>