@artskids - a list of 25 seems a LOT more reasonable, and I see lots of the usual suspects that one sees on most top lists. But @2lights and @Mach4 - I notice NYU is STILL made the list… so they probably aren’t really referring to the true “top tier”.
People starting this process - I beg you to abandon the thought of “best” and worry about “best for you”
@actorparent1 great advice and info!
@artskids that is a good well rounded list of a variety of undergrad programs. Thanks -interesting read.
@bfahopeful I thought it was well-timed but really just posted it for a bit of levity.
That’s a really interesting list - a mixture of tippy-top programs and less-well-known BAs. They include University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, but not UNCSA. I suppose the key is that it’s touted as “programs you should know about,” not “top programs” or “best programs.” At least it may encourage people to look beyond the “usual suspects.”
LOL @artskids! Your post definitely made me laugh but then I laughed again at myself when I read the list and realized I could point out errors in the school details. Maybe this admissions process has been a little too engrossing…
These lists always make it seem like you have a choice between CMU and Julliard and UNCSA and need help picking the right one, LOL.
LOL, @Jkellynh17! It’s true! They also sound like “These are the schools you should apply to. That’s your list. No need to consider any others.”
I do like the “25” list posted above, because it includes a lot of schools that aren’t ordinarily considered. I also like the Onstage Blog’s “Underrated” lists.
Like, oh, damn I shoulda sent my kid to Julliard. If I’d only known…
I think quite a few people came in to chime in their thoughts because they either have a child at NYU Tisch or feel that because their child doesn’t go to a top rated school I’m making it seem like they won’t make it. That wasn’t my point. Heck, I hear about problems at Julliard, Carnegie and UNCSA too. They are far from perfect. Some kids leave those schools and others don’t do squat after they graduate. I root for every kid and kids from schools other than the top 5, 10 or 15 in some lists make it all the time. My point was and is that the better the school, teachers and overall talent in that class the better chance a kid has of making it. They get pushed daily as different kids in that class set the bar and it’s up to the rest of the class to keep working hard to get up to or stay at that level. Let’s equate this to sports and football. Alabama has won 5 College Football National Championships since 2009. They are clearly the best college football team in the last decade. They are the Julliard right now of college football. Does it mean every kid on those teams will end up being a high draft choice and play in the NFL? Of course not but as of 2017 Alabama had 44 players playing in the NFL, tied for 4th most college and have had more 1st round draft choices than any other school. Other schools that were in the top 10 for most players in the NFL were schools like LSU, USC, Ohio State, Clemson and Michigan. These schools are almost always rated in the top 10 or top 20 and spit out world class athletes that generally do much better than the average college. Do some kids make it in the NFL that go to Central Florida, Western Michigan, Coastal Carolina and Cornell. Of course they do. Central Florida has 13, Western Michigan has 7, Coastal Carolina has 5 and Cornell has 1 kid playing in the NFL as of 2017. Some of their stories are the best! A few make it when not one Division 1 school recruited them or they walked on and worked jobs on the side to pay for their education. I root for every kid in every school to find consistent work, be happy or become a star. My point was the better the school the better chance for success. If you don’t believe that then your delusional. Through a friend I once spoke to a top casting agent while my daughter was in high school. This agent said they have cast kids as leads from schools she knew next to nothing about or didn’t think much of their training. Every kid has a shot. This casting agent did say though they sit up a little more in their chair and expects a certain level of talent when they audition someone from an MT or acting school like Julliard, Carnegie or Michigan. Look at the Playbills. There is a greater chance percentage wise of getting leads, semi leads and consistent work if you go to a top school. Those are just facts. Don’t give me the random or few stories about how 2 kids from a class of over 100 got leads within a year out of school. There have been some years where everyone in the class of about 20 Michigan MT students have a paying nice gig within 6 months of graduation. That is impressive! Has NYU Tisch ever had 80 of the graduating 100 students working within 6 months? I doubt it very seriously. Those are stats that are very important other than fit when choosing a school. Julliard or Carnegie or top tier schools spit out more leads percentage wise than the average MT or acting school. That’s just a fact. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. Just wanted to clarify what I was trying to point out but maybe with better examples. I hope everyone has a great summer.
The problem with that, though, is that it’s chicken versus egg. Yes, a school like Carnegie Mellon or Juilliard attracts the very top talent. But those kids are so talented that they would probably do well no matter WHERE they went. So does the school really get the credit for that?
Yes, a casting director may sit up a little straighter when the kid from Juilliard walks in, because he knows that Juilliard accepts only the very best, so that kid is probably very talented. But that means nothing for our OWN kids. Our kid is our kid, and whatever talent they have is whatever talent they have, regardless of what school they attend. They’re not magically going to become more talented if they get into a top school, and they’re not going to become less talented if they don’t.
Of course we want them to go to a school where they will get excellent training and be among other kids as passionate and dedicated as they are. But for example, Sutton Foster was accepted to Carnegie Mellon, but dropped out after one semester because she booked a national tour and her career took off and she never went back. Does Carnegie Mellon get credit for her being so talented and successful?
It’s strange to me that you knock NYU because they accept a lot of kids. Personally, I think that’s a good thing! There are so many talented kids, and all the other top schools only accept 12 to 20. Many, many talented kids get shut out of those schools because there simply are not enough slots available. So I think it’s great that at least one top school, NYU, accepts many more kids, so they have a better chance of getting in.
And yes, simply due to odds, accepting more kids means that likely, some will be very talented and others less so. They’re not cherry-picking only the tippy-top kids. But so what? How does that make it a bad school? You literally said that being around super talented kids gets the others to step up their game, so isn’t that true of NYU as well?
I’m sorry, but I just don’t agree with you that the definition of an amazing school is “one that cherry picks and only accepts 12 tippy-top talented kids.” We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
It’s true that going to a top school may make a casting director sit up straighter because the school has a top reputation. But if you don’t nail it in the audition room, you won’t get the part. It may get you a little extra attention, but ultimately, it’s down to the kid and his or her talent.
I’m not saying don’t take stats and successful alumni into account when looking at schools - of course you should. But I’m also saying you should take those stats with a little grain of salt. If a school is graduating a hundred kids, I wouldn’t expect every single one of those kids to be successful, because it is a larger number. But I also wouldn’t hold it AGAINST the school, as you seem to do. JMO.
Peace.
The football analogy isn’t a good comparison to the acting world. A small percentage of actors ever appear on Broadway. There are far more opportunities to book work in other locations/venues/cities, etc. If a top college player doesn’t make the NFL, their opportunities are limited almost exclusively to the CFL, and more likely, to not playing at all. Most actors are working in shows other than on Broadway.
If I’m not mistaken @2lights , weren’t you the one a while ago that made the claim that the caliber of actor is much higher on Broadway than it is on a national tour? That, too, was a misinformed opinion that was not factual. Making broad claims about particular schools, regardless of what school it is, isn’t wise and I’ll never understand why anyone feels the need to denigrate any program, especially on a message board where you know there are students and parents who are excited about being accepted and attending in a few months. It just isn’t nice.
@actorparent1 I completely agree with you! And the other problem with comparing to sports is that sports stats are objective – how many yards did the player run, how many touchdowns did they make, etc. – these are things that can be quantified. The schools with the “top” football teams based on statistics can choose the “top” players for their team based on their statistics in high school. Talent is subjective. There are no statistics for colleges to rely on in order to determine if a high school student is the “top” in talent. How many stories have we heard about actors who are pulling in the most money today at the box office and who were rejected from Julliard, CMU and even Tisch? What does that say? Are those actors not “tippy top” or did the schools not recognize the talent?
Here endeth the lesson
He likes to stir the pot! lol
The caliber of actor in my opinion on Broadway vs a national tour is a little bit higher. Not in every show but overall a slight bit better. Why isn’t football a good analogy if 15% of the players at a top 15 football school play in the NFL and only 5% playing at a #50 school make it in the NFL? Do I think Julliard and Carnegie should have bigger classes? Hell yes I do. I think it’s ridiculous that Julliard takes a class of 8 high school kids and Carnegie just 12. Why not at least double that number. I think it’s great that there are schools like NYU that have a class of about 100 and Boston conservatory that start with a class of 60. It’s an accomplishment to get into almost any acting or MT school. Every kid should be excited about the school they are going to. My opinion is NYU is a good but not great acting school at this time. That’s my opinion. If you agree with it great. If not you have that right also. Peace, out!
@2lights - question for clarity… when I saw Rob McClure in the tour of Something Rotten, was he performing at a lower level than whe I saw him in Honeymoon in Vegas on Broadway…
Well, I hope that those of you who will be attending or whose children will be attending Tisch this fall don’t pay any attention to the mean-spirited comments by 2lights. You/your kids will get a great education and have a wonderful experience in the coming years. It’s unfortunate that some feel the need to be negative, with little actual knowledge about the program. It has happened here several times over the years that I’ve been a member here. It is as uninformed now as it has been every other time. Don’t listen to it. Be excited about your future and be proud of your accomplishments! All the best to all of you future Tischies.
I checked back in to answer a PM and saw this thread. My experience has been over the 5 years on here is that any negative comment made about NYU no matter how slight or even unintentional is met with quite aggressive and visceral attacks. That is why I finally bowed out of these boards. No other school that is “questioned” on here get the kind of feathers ruffled as NYU does. I hope these boards can go back to being helpful and kind and move forward. Maybe the admins need to shut this one down. It has really gone off the rails…
Welcome back @bisouu - we have missed you. You have always been such a great champion for forging your own path. In my 5 years here I have never seen ANY school criticized without people rising to it’s defense. If I recall correctly - there was one recently about SUNY Purchase that @artskids (who has a kid there) stepped in to correct. And when it turned out a school had made a VERY unfortunate mistake (rescinding an offer of acceptance they had made in error) parents with kids in that program stepped in to explain it was an anomaly. If people are “questioning” a school, shouldn’t those with direct info step in and share? Is that either aggressive or visceral? I think the shoe is kinda on the other foot with this thread.
As I have said what feels like a million times - no one HAS to like NYU, or any school. But I don’t think we should insult those who do.
@bisouu, I was so sorry to see you go. You’ve always posted such thoughtful and insightful thoughts. I hope you come back to stay.