<p>Several years back, my friend regularly spent her weekends driving her stepdaughters up and down the state to volleyball tournaments. They were PASSIONATE about volleyball. Good grades, high test scores and this passion resulted in their acceptances to Stanford and Harvard (not as recruited athlete, though, as they were not that good) After graduation from high school, these girls never picked up a volleyball again… To this day, my friend is furious that even she was duped into believing that they were passionate about their sport.</p>
<p>Why is it that the federal government is cracking down on unpaid internship’s as exploitive and unfair to poorer kids, but everybody is okay with the mandated “community service” hours. Where are the minimum wage police? Is it really promoting volunteerism if you have to do it to get into college? What is wrong with being “passionate” about wanting to get into one’s first choice college? Is anyone going to turn down the “cure for cancer” because the prodigy didn’t really care about cancer, but only found the cure to impress the college admissions board. “Sorry, the poor kids in Jakarta are going to go barefoot because they found out that Johnny, who collected 1000 pairs of shoes in Ohio didn’t really care baout the kids’ feet, he only wanted to get into Dartmouth.”</p>
<p>“After graduation from high school, these girls never picked up a volleyball again… To this day, my friend is furious that even she was duped into believing that they were passionate about their sport.”</p>
<p>Maybe they got burned out on volleyball and found other interests in college. I doubt that they pursued no ECs at Stanford. And since they weren’t recruited athletes, no one knows why Stanford accepted them.</p>
<p>I have moved on (and sometimes have returned to) many passions in life. Just because one is passionate about something now doesn’t mean that one will forever be passionate about it. </p>
<p>"Is it really promoting volunteerism if you have to do it to get into college? :</p>
<p>I’m not aware of any college that requires volunteerism for admittance.</p>
<p>However, one could say, “Is it really promoting academics if you have to do it to et into college?”</p>
<p>Many of the things that we do we originally did because someone forced us to do them. I doubt that many people willingly would have gone to school 6 hours a day for 12 years unless someone made them.</p>
<p>Heck, many people wouldn’t have gotten into the habit of brushing their teeth and washing their face unless parents had forced them to do those things at first.</p>
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<p>My experience points to the contrary.
I can’t believe that one can perform extremely well in math competitions after weekly meetings with an advisor. If you want to be a good runner, you have to run a lot. A weekly run is not going to produce a top result. Same with math. You have to strugle with a mountain of questions, weekly meeting aren’t going to acomplish this.</p>
<p>You write : There’s such an excellent system in place for producing these kind of stars that it isn’t that difficult for smart students to do well at it</p>
<p>Hey, would love to find out about that “system” 
There is a school district in Texas that every year brings its top students to National Mathcounts competition (the most prestigious math comp. for middle school).
Their “system” is mathcounts practice every single weekday for 3-4 hours after school (kids go home to eat, then come back to school ) plus more on weekends. Even after that much practice it is still not very easy to become stars ;)</p>
<p>It is actually quite scary that someone who interviews for a top college holds this kind of an opinion.</p>
<p>^ I absolutely agree.</p>
<p>“It is actually quite scary that someone who interviews for a top college holds this kind of an opinion.”</p>
<p>The math competitions that I’m talking is Mu Alpha Theta, and most of the public high schools in my city produce students who have placed nationally in those competitions. It doesn’t seem that hard to place especially when one can get a national award for compiling a good scrapbook that reflects one’s team.</p>
<p>I also live in a college town, and many students have parents who are scientists and mathematicians, so the students have had a lot of parental help in being strong in math.</p>
<p>It’s typical for students whom I have interviewed to at least have gotten some kind of statewide honors in MAO. Consequently, such students don’t stand out where I live.</p>
<p>I agree with Kelowna. My son does competitive math - he works incredibly hard and it is clearly, hands down, his favorite EC activity. We were just at a competition and all of the students there seemed to have the same attitude. The idea that it is “no big deal,” or they “have a lot of parental help” to do well is hogwash.</p>
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The big-name math competitions that most competitive math programs seem to focus on are the AMC/AIME/USAMO and USAMTS, plus MathCounts at the middle-school level. A “scrapbook” has nothing to do with winning at that level - it’s more about being able to solve the assigned problems under pressure.
The same can be true of any activity. Kids whose parents are web designers may design websites as a “hobby”, good basketball players may have parents who played, etc.</p>
<p>That’s a pretty strange statement about having “parental help being strong in math.” All the kids I know who were very strong in math (including a USAMO team member) gained their skills through years of hard work and study.</p>
<p>Nothing strange about having “parental help being strong in math”. I’ve noticed that many of the local kids who are very strong in math have immigrant parents who are scientists, engineers, and mathematicians who were dissatisfied with how math was taught here even in gifted and advanced classes, so gave their kids extra work in math.</p>
<p>Northstarmom -</p>
<p>It is true that some kids with science/math parents may have an added interest in those areas, however, to achieve success at AMC/AIME/USAMO and USAMTS and such, the student must do an extraordinary amount of hard work. Your comment that math kids “don’t stand out” sounded very dismissive. I’ve noticed that these kids seem to have a high level of engagement - it’s pretty hard to fake a passion for math.</p>
<p>" however, to achieve success at AMC/AIME/USAMO and USAMTS and such, the student must do an extraordinary "</p>
<p>I agree. I wasn’t talking about those contests, but about MAO, which is very big where I live. Students where I live don’t seem to participate in the competitions that you mentioned.</p>
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That’s fair. What you really seem to be saying is that all activities have different levels of achievement, and that high achievement in any one area is probably superior to average achievement in another.</p>
<p>" What you really seem to be saying is that all activities have different levels of achievement, and that high achievement in any one area is probably superior to average achievement in another."</p>
<p>Yes. That’s what I meant.</p>