Living off campus -- Pros and Cons?

[gadad]

<p>I’m in my 22nd year as a college Dean of Students. In all that time, the one thing that’s become clearer to me than anything else is that students’ engagement and involvement in the life of their campus is the best predictor of the scope of positive impact that their college experience will have. It’s a far better predictor than their grades. And by and large, those students who remain in campus housing tend to be the more engaged and involved students. What’s more, they wind up living among a peer group that reflects that degree of engagement and sets the norms for one another.</p>

<p>Many CC parents may be able to say “My student really likes his / her off-campus apartment.” I’m not surprised at all about that. If we were being honest (and knew), we might also be able to say “My student really likes skipping class to play video games.” Neither sentiment reflects the purposes for which they’re in college.</p>

<p>In Georgia, in-state students get free tuition + a stipend for fees and books as long as they keep a 3.0 GPA. On my campus, the on-campus residents have a mean GPA of 3.15 while the off-campus students have a 2.89, despite the fact that half of the on-campus contingent are freshmen while none of the off-campus students are freshmen. In addition, self-reported substance abuse is far greater off-campus. No surprise there - one of the key motivators for many students to move off campus is to be able to drink underage without the college’s observation. In fact, some of the private apartments will act as accessories to underage drinking by providing the alcohol and giving a free apartment to an adult whose role in exchange is to act as a lookout in case the police come by.</p>

<p>I didn’t intend to suggest that students shouldn’t attend a school at which a significant proportion of students live off campus. That’s my family’s particular priority, though many great schools have large off-campus cultures. But regardless of the school your student attends, they will have the opportunity in many ways to make decisions to remain connected or to reduce their engagement in the life of the campus. Moving off-campus, IMO, is the decision that yields the greatest negative consequences. It’s the college equivalent of seeking a separation from your spouse.</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>I still think the decision to live on or off needs to be an individual decision. My son is very social and has benefited form being off campus freshman year. But when in the dorm there were too many distractions, too many people coming and going and too many people grabbing him to do this or that. He was also in a suite with 3 roommates. He’s a kid who needs a good night of sleep…and a fairly long night of sleep comparably. He likes not being in the dorm because his house is quieter. He has a room of his own where he can close the door and friends generally call him if they want him to do something rather than bang on the dorm room door. He’s more comfortable saying “no” to a cell phone rather than a person standing there. He wasn’t even interested in a single in the dorm which we discussed as I personally think living on campus is a good thing and my college eons ago required on campus living for all four years with the exception of a small snior lottery for a few. His rationale for living “off” was a sound argument and while I was concerned how it would pan out, I now realize he knew himself pretty well. He’s actually looking for a studio for next year rather than a house with 3 other guys which just proves more to me that the “alone” time is an important aspect of his personality. He’s still a very social guy with a boatload of friends, but the timing of friends vs. study is more on his terms. I can see how the opposite could be true for some kids. One other interesting thing I’ve become of aware of is that he tends to go to the library and study a couple hours before heading back to his house. When he was in the dorm freshman year he rarely went to the library. I think there is some mental separation between “school and study” and “home and play” now that he lives off campus that he didn’t have when he lived on. But of course this is just one person’s experience.</p>

[blossom]

<p>Negatives- dealing with a landlord. On balance, kids found that dealing with the bureacracy of Student Housing (whose mission, after all, is the health and safety of its students) vs. dealing with a slumlord (how else to put it?) was no contest. The landlords of apartments which cater to students do their best to do the least amount of work, capital investment, or attention for the greatest rents possible. The first time your kid has to miss a class or the first shift of their job waiting for the locksmith to come and fix the broken front door lock will make your blood boil. And then a week later, a broken window. Bottom line- an apartment building which isn’t in great shape to begin with is going to need more frequent repairs than a well-maintained building. And if you don’t want your daughter sleeping in a room with no glass in the window (overlooking the fire escape no less) or living in a building with no door locks- there are going to be missed appointments and classes and what not waiting for repair men. Just like in real life.</p>

<p>I have found that the cost savings are illusory. We paid zero in insurance for our kids dorms (laptops, cameras, etc. all covered by our homeowners policy) vs. the renters policies in apartments (required by the landlord.) Internet, minor repairs not covered by the lease, plus the three months of unoccupied space made the costs pretty comparable- or a slight nod to dorm life.</p>

<p>No question it’s a growth experience for your kid- but since mine went out and got apartments and jobs after they graduated, I’d have to ask if its worth it for an undergrad. They get to live in shabby apartments and pay their own bills soon enough. The first cockroach is pretty exciting; by the six month you are SO OVER the experience of not having a housing office to call and complain to.</p>

<p>I’m sure there are landlords out there who take care of their properties and are responsive to students about issues- but since our kid had a landlord who stopped paying for private garbage hauling service halfway through the lease, and our kid had to threaten the management company with housing court to get the mounds of garbage removed from the curb-- I’d vote for a dorm for as long as possible.</p>

[HImom]

<p>Many of the Us do not have the capacity to allow students to choose whether they want to remain on campus all 4 years. At USC, where both my kids attend, they only guarantee housing for the 1st 2 years. There are freshmen dorms & other apartments & living options. The “off campus” housing can range from an apartment or other unit that is across the street or right beside “campus” housing (they are literally side by side) to a 15-30 minute walk or drive from campus. My kids both stayed “on campus” for the 2 years housing was available & then S moved to an “off campus” apartment that is directly across the street from the school soccer field and a 7 minute walk to the heart of campus. The “on campus” housing for non-freshmen is actually in apartments that are a 7+ minute walk from the center of campus as well.</p>

<p>My S has had some issues dealing with his landlord as well, but he had issues when he had “on campus” housing last year also, so don’t see much difference.</p>

<p>Financially, there isn’t much difference we can see either. The rentals are virtually identical. Once you’re not a freshman, you don’t have to take the meal plan, so neither of my kids did & started getting their own groceries & doing their own cooking. Laundry was slightly cheaper with U housing, but that can vary as well.</p>

[originaloog]

<p>gadad suggests that the ideal college experience is solely determined by living on campus. Like gadad I spent my adult life in academe and have observed that the ideal college experience can be achieved in many way based on the individual wants/needs of each student. For some the focus is in the classroom, for others the athletic fields, for others the sorority house/frat house/dorm, for others the performance hall/art studio and for most some combination of these. Resident hall life is certainly not the sole factor in determining the ideal college experience and for some it can be a detriment. Many colleges now have apartment style housing for upperclassmen and I find it hard to figure out how and on campus apartment is different from an off campus one.</p>

<p>Our ds lived off campus for three years and he was fully engaged in college life. In fact his apartment was closer to the academic quads/student union/gyms than some on campus apartments and was the meeting place for many of his project team sessions. It was also more convenient for weekend socializing than most resident halls. Where else could a student host a Thanksgiving dinner/party for 50 students!(he and his friends co-opted the entire three unit townhouse for 3 years so it had 3 kitchens, three living rooms, 3 bathrooms, 12 bedrooms). The 11 people who occupied his townhouse were all in his peer group as were most occupants of apartments/houses in the surrounding neighborhood. The ability to grill on the back patio with friends, neighbors and a bucket of Rocks was merely icing on the student life cake, something impossible to do anywhere on campus.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<p>“I’m in my 22nd year as a college Dean of Students. In all that time,
the one thing that’s become clearer to me than anything else is that
students’ engagement and involvement in the life of their campus is
the best predictor of the scope of positive impact that their college
experience will have.”</p>

<p>That’s a lot of words to say very little.</p>

<p>“It’s a far better predictor than their grades. And by and large, those
students who remain in campus housing tend to be the more engaged and
involved students. What’s more, they wind up living among a peer group
that reflects that degree of engagement and sets the norms for one
another.”</p>

<p>This assumes that those norms are positive.</p>

<p>I used to read the local university police crime blotter and it
reported the kids caught in the dorms drinking, doing drugs,
vandalizing cars or university property, etc. They stopped publishing
those reports last year.</p>

<p>“Many CC parents may be able to say “My student really likes his / her
off-campus apartment.” I’m not surprised at all about that. If we were
being honest (and knew), we might also be able to say “My student
really likes skipping class to play video games.” Neither sentiment
reflects the purposes for which they’re in college.”</p>

<p>I am being honest and I do know.</p>

<p>“In Georgia, in-state students get free tuition + a stipend for fees
and books as long as they keep a 3.0 GPA. On my campus, the on-campus
residents have a mean GPA of 3.15 while the off-campus students have a
2.89, despite the fact that half of the on-campus contingent are
freshmen while none of the off-campus students are freshmen.”</p>

<p>I would guess that there are a variety of commuters attending on your
campus. Do you break your statistics down by those that work; those
off-campus but essentially on-campus and those that are very close and
those that are very far?</p>

<p>“In addition, self-reported substance abuse is far greater off-campus.
No surprise there - one of the key motivators for many students to
move off campus is to be able to drink underage without the college’s
observation.”</p>

<p>Yes, I see a lot of that in my son’s apartment. But I also see the
streams of kids heading over from the dorms to the off-campus
apartments to drink too.</p>

<p>“In fact, some of the private apartments will act as accessories to
underage drinking by providing the alcohol and giving a free apartment
to an adult whose role in exchange is to act as a lookout in case the
police come by.”</p>

<p>Yes, I’ve observed one set of apartments over the police station that
has balcony parties. I’ve seen the police come over to chat with the
partiers - in a friendly way - not even to check them out. The police
are letting the students experiment in a safe way. They aren’t out
drinking and driving or otherwise causing havoc and destruction of
property.</p>

<p>Several heads of universities have called for lowering the drinking
age to 18 to decriminalize drinking. It happens. A lot. In on-campus
and off-campus quarters.</p>

<p>Getting back to GPAs, my son has a 3.9 GPA and is majoring in Computer
Science. He would have a 3.98 if they didn’t include some of his
pre-matriculation credits from dual-enrollment credits when he was 16.
A lot of kids that he knows that live in the dorms have dropped out of
the CS program. It might have been due to the weeders in the Freshman
year, some of the later hardware courses, some of the theory course
or the heavy math requirements.</p>

<p>“I didn’t intend to suggest that students shouldn’t attend a school at
which a significant proportion of students live off campus. That’s my
family’s particular priority, though many great schools have large
off-campus cultures.”</p>

<p>Our son is meeting with a company right now to get the specs for his
first piece of contract work. It involves creating a filter for laser
measurements using mathematics and computer science. He’s only 19 but
the contracting work will look good on his resume. He already has a
summer internship lined up. He spends a fair amount of time tutoring
other students for the university so he gets to meet a variety of
other students, tutors and those looking for tutoring. He knows just
about all of the professors in the math department and most of the
professors in the computer science department. He attends the
colloquia for CS with upper-class undergraduates, graduate students
and professors. He seems to have a full undergraduate life from my
perspective.</p>

<p>“But regardless of the school your student attends, they will have the
opportunity in many ways to make decisions to remain connected or to
reduce their engagement in the life of the campus.”</p>

<p>Some colleges are good at keeping connections with alumni. Boston
College is a good example of this. Some are pretty poor at
this. Boston University is an example of the latter. In many ways,
the college itself contributes to the connectedness of alumni to the
institution as it does with undergraduates.</p>

<p>“Moving off-campus, IMO, is the decision that yields the greatest
negative consequences. It’s the college equivalent of seeking a
separation from your spouse.”</p>

<p>Fortunately it’s only your opinion.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<p>“Negatives- dealing with a landlord. On balance, kids found that
dealing with the bureacracy of Student Housing (whose mission, after
all, is the health and safety of its students) vs. dealing with a
slumlord (how else to put it?) was no contest. The landlords of
apartments which cater to students do their best to do the least
amount of work, capital investment, or attention for the greatest
rents possible. The first time your kid has to miss a class or the
first shift of their job waiting for the locksmith to come and fix the
broken front door lock will make your blood boil. And then a week
later, a broken window. Bottom line- an apartment building which isn’t
in great shape to begin with is going to need more frequent repairs
than a well-maintained building. And if you don’t want your daughter
sleeping in a room with no glass in the window (overlooking the fire
escape no less) or living in a building with no door locks- there are
going to be missed appointments and classes and what not waiting for
repair men. Just like in real life.”</p>

<p>I’m sitting in my son’s apartment right now. It was built two years
ago and is completely up to code. It is across the street from the
police station and above two businesses. One of the businesses owns
the buildings and they are very careful on selecting renters. It took
us about 7 weeks to rent the place and I had to arrange a meeting with
the upper management of the property management company and our son.</p>

<p>I would ensure that any apartment that our kids rented had sprinkler
systems, CO detectors, smoke detectors, flood protection systems for
hot water heaters, multiple survivable exits in every room, circuit
breakers and a very restrictive set of rules on pets (no pets at all),
noise and anything else you could think of.</p>

<p>“I have found that the cost savings are illusory. We paid zero in
insurance for our kids dorms (laptops, cameras, etc. all covered by
our homeowners policy) vs. the renters policies in apartments
(required by the landlord.) Internet, minor repairs not covered by the
lease, plus the three months of unoccupied space made the costs pretty
comparable- or a slight nod to dorm life.”</p>

<p>We don’t pay any insurance for our son’s apartment. It’s furnished
with cheap stuff. It is across the street from the police station
too and not that far away from the university campus police station
as well.</p>

<p>“No question it’s a growth experience for your kid- but since mine went
out and got apartments and jobs after they graduated, I’d have to ask
if its worth it for an undergrad. They get to live in shabby
apartments and pay their own bills soon enough. The first cockroach is
pretty exciting; by the six month you are SO OVER the experience of
not having a housing office to call and complain to.”</p>

<p>[Bedbugs</a> move into dorms - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-08-20-bedbugs-dorms_N.htm]Bedbugs”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-08-20-bedbugs-dorms_N.htm)</p>

<p>“I’m sure there are landlords out there who take care of their
properties and are responsive to students about issues- but since our
kid had a landlord who stopped paying for private garbage hauling
service halfway through the lease, and our kid had to threaten the
management company with housing court to get the mounds of garbage
removed from the curb-- I’d vote for a dorm for as long as possible.”</p>

<p>Our apartment is over a very well-run restaurant which has a dumpster
in the parking lot which is where the trash goes. One can throw the
trash out any time of the day or night. It is emptied daily.</p>

[Allmusic]

<p>Personally, as a parent, I love the idea of a four year residential college situation. Then, I remind myself that I moved off campus as a junior, since I was totally done with dorm life. It just got old. </p>

<p>So, when my own son wanted to move off-campus as a sophomore, I balked a little, still fantasizing about all the grand dorm times about which Gadad is pontificating. Those late night deep talks and spontaneous get-togethers, the pizza calls, card games and movie watching in the common room—how would he want to miss those? But then I remembered that much of what Gadad describes is that of fable and not of reality. Sharing a bedroom with non-family members gets old. Dorm food becomes tedious. Loads of kids in a dorm get loud, and sometimes you don’t want to deal with them. What was great fun at 18 may not be quite as interesting at 20. </p>

<p>On the other hand, I agree with Blossom about student apartments and landlords. It is not a perfect world out there in rental land either. </p>

<p>We will save quite a bit of money on off campus housing, but my son was tired of the dorm anyway. So, as with everything else, there are different strokes for different folks. No “one size fits all” Gadad. I can assure you that most kids who move off campus (myself included, from a 30 years post grad perspective) feel that that decision was not one that had the “greatest negative consequences”. In fact, for many of us, we appreciated the opportunity to eat what we wanted, not to be bothered by drunken parties, to have our own rooms and fewer people sharing bathrooms. We could study in peace and quiet. We developed close relationships with our roommates and friends, and in no way felt that we had separated from our colleges.</p>

<p>I can understand some parents’ reluctance, but you also have to look at the child you have, and whether they can handle the responsibility. Many can, and do it splendidly.</p>

[toneranger]

<p>“It’s the college equivalent of seeking a separation from your spouse”.
Now, that’s quite a strong statement. Wow.
In general, as a parent, I would have preferred to have my son stay on campus. He didn’t. I told him I would only pay as much as the dorm expenses. He ended up eating the summer costs for his rental…which actually drained his bank account. So there are most certainly some cons here.
That said, I have seen PLENTY of full engaged students who live off campus. That can mean across the street at my son’s school. It’s a way of life for most students after freshman year and it’s NO BIG DEAL. The student’s at my son’s school have incredible school spirit - and stay connected until they’re in walkers. Separation? Are you kidding me? They graduate and leave to take jobs and get on with their lives and then come back and settle in retirement communities right around campus. Wear the colors proudly. And most of these students lived off campus.
I’d say it’s pretty much impossible to make broad generalizations here. And a bit controlling to restrict student’s choices based on this factor alone. But that’s just my opinion!</p>

[scout59]

<p>Back in the dark ages, I lived on-campus all 4 years and was miserable for 3 of those years. Even so, I was a little leery when my own D chose a college notorious (?) for the number of kids moving off-campus after freshman year. D is now happily planning to move out of the dorms next year, and I have to admit it’s the right decision for her. </p>

<p>I like Allmusic’s comments - stuff does get old - and in my D’s case, she got really tired of cleaning up the bathroom after her partying suitemates returned home drunk, sick, and obnoxious. (Not every kid moves off-campus to drink. Some really do move to avoid the drinkers.) She can’t wait to live with like-minded roommates PLUS having a room of her own. Whenever I mention the late-night pizza or movies, my D looks at me like I’ve sprouted 2 heads - why can’t she do those things with her off-campus friends who live close by? Besides, she likes the idea of no more dorm food!</p>

<p>I kind of resent the implication that wanting to move off-campus implies some kind of moral defect on her part. I just see it as another choice to make, and not necessarily one of the larger choices, either.</p>

[anon94785555]

<p>A lot depends on the campus culture. UW states FRESHMEN do better living in the dorms. Just saw some figures on the CC UW website that showed 3/4 of undergrads living off campu/commuting. There is a lot more decent/good housing close to campus than eons ago, and the amenities have improved. With “everybody” living in apts it is mostly freshmen with a fair number of sophomores in the dorms. At his school it may be socially isolating to live with mostly freshmen as a junior, there are still a fair number of sophomores in the dorms (no requirements to buy dorm food and anyone can eat in Res Halls). Because of the high number of students living off campus there is a lot of student networking regarding all of the ins and outs of apt hunting, landlords and all the other considerations of apt life. </p>

<p>Son spent 2 years in the dorms, now in an apt. They chose to have 5-6 (one away for a semester) in a 4 BR/2 bath apt closer than some dorms. The space is small and apt sized refrigerators are not really adequate for 6 guys, but they survive. All leases in Madison are for 12 months, still cheaper than the dorm and possible to sublet. It has been good for my son to learn to take care of finances, food, cleaning with several others instead of having to do it all alone in grad school at a new school/town. Since he is close to classes the location aspect is not a factor.</p>

<p>I had worried about son in an apt without the safeguards of Res Halls for disputes but he and his roommates seem to have worked things out fairly in their eyes with everyone doing an acceptable share of the work, finances et al. Don’t ask me the details- they are none of my business (a parent had to sign a lease payment guarantee, but no other input in how they do things). By the time students are in their 3rd year they are usually motivated to study and they sense the responsibilities that go along with the freedoms, unlike many fresh out of HS students.</p>

<p>A final thought- they have to grow up sometime and transitioning into apartment life during the undergrad years seems to work, at least at son’s campus in this era.</p>

[kayf]

<p>I’m not aware of any study showing any more or less drinking on or off campus. I certainly think kids in dorms can play computer games for hours. As to kids off campus getting not as good grades – who knows why, maybe they have moved off campus because they are broke, and work more hours than on-campus kids. Every child is different, every school different.</p>