<p>I’m sorry momofwildchild but I still have to disagree because I had no trouble rounding up trustworthy friends.</p>
<p>Moreover, simply waving away the fact that housing is indeed what you make of it as “the party line” is not an effective argument, and the point still stands.</p>
<p>So if it’s not about saving money, or having a free-standing house to throw parties in (a la virgin), what’s wrong with the high rises? There are some single rooms in most of the layouts, right? And they have kitchenettes, so you can go off the meal plan. What am I missing?</p>
<p>They’re comparatively expensive (a month is pretty much the same as a month in the Radian), you still have an RA/GA, the elevators blow and take sometimes 10 minutes to come when you want to go to class, and more than anything else, you’re not guaranteed housing there.</p>
<p>My freshman year, tons of people were unbelievably stressed trying to find someone who already lived in the highrises to leech off of, or to try and sign up for a residential program to get into them, or to get community living. By the point that housing results come out, if you didn’t get the highrises, you’re stuck in Sansom West (ugh) or other housing (the quad as an upperclassman… I know people who did it!).</p>
<p>Living off campus and getting it out of the way is the best way to get peace of mind during this ordeal. Sophomores basically get last pick in terms of housing.</p>
<p>The high rise rooms look really nice in the brochures. They’re not that nice at all in reality. </p>
<p>One big advantage to staying on campus, however, is the 9-month lease instead of the 12-month lease. IF you move off-campus, you have to find someone to sublet over the summer, often at very discounted rates. At Radian rent, the three months of the summer could amount to $4000.</p>
<p>“Frankly, the reason those places sell out so quickly is that the majority of Penn students’ parents pay full sticker price for their kids to be there, so what do they care about another grand or two a month? This leads not only to the places selling out, but to artificially inflated prices. The consumers in this case (the parents) have only suspect sources of information upon which to base their purchasing decision, and no one to dissuade them from spending excessive amounts of money for some false sense of security.”</p>
<p>That is a pretty ignorant and arrogant thing to say. The Radian is actually market rate because the University insisted that it would be. Another $100 a month matters to many of the “full fare” parents. Maybe you should stop and consider the sacrifices a middle-class family makes to send a child to a school as expensive and exceptional as Penn. Remarks like yours show an amazing lack of character and insight. Every family and student is unique, and there may be factors which lead to one decision or another. Again, it is interesting that the facts are so threatening to you. Of course there are some good housing options, and some students don’t care if they have an adequate kitchen, noise all night long or filth. Others really need some quiet space and more privacy. The point is, Penn is a city school and housing choices require a lot of consideration and investigation. There is a learning curve. That great group of 5 kids you rent a house with becomes 5 completely different kids when they all sublet to someone else for a semester. The kid who you loved being in class with may be so absent minded at home that he can’t remember to lock the back door to the house.
There is a lot to consider. My son’s apartment for this semester is actually OK- at least so far. Stay tuned.</p>
<p>You’ve been saying ignorant and arrogant things throughout this entire thread. I don’t understand how your son having two poor experiences with off-campus housing correlates to all of Penn’s off-campus housing being poor, especially since so many current or past tenants have posted in this thread contradicting your claims that it’s awful.</p>
<p>Firstly, the argument that the radian is ‘market rate’ is one of the most ludicrous I’ve ever heard; it’s market rate for rittenhouse square, not for west philadelphia, and if your faith in penn is such that their say so is enough to ensure your confidence that you’re paying an appropriate price, i’m shocked to say the least.</p>
<p>Furthermore, i hardly think most of the full fare types, seeing as how they come from families making over 200K a year (and in most cases significantly more) qualify as part of the struggling middle class. Try working 30 hours a week as a full-time undergrad, building up about 30k in loan debt while your parents take on more than double that to put two kids through top private colleges at the same time, and this is with the help of an EFC equal to about a third of full fare (and I hardly think I have it bad compared to a lot of people I know). If the extra money were so much a sacrifice for the people spending it, they would invest the effort needed to find the adequate, affordable housing that nearly every current student to post on this thread has attested exists, rather than listening to you spout off as someone who has really not spent an appreciable amount of time at Penn. Your complete lack of perspective regarding the way that most people live (you spoke of your daughter’s gated off-campus community as though it were somehow normal for a college student) is someone one would expect from a high schooler on this forum, not from someone who supposedly has two children in college.</p>
<p>You are a fine example, philly. You managed to distort and misconstrue just about everything I said. My daughter’s “gated” community 1 bedroom apartment is $500 a month. It is rather shabby and not fancy. It is Rice off-campus student housing. Yes, it has a gate with a code for you to get in the complex. That’s the way it is done in Texas and many other places that have some land available. Why is this so offensive to you? I did not say ALL the off-campus housing was horrible. Much of it is. This is not a secret. </p>
<p>I believe there were some other posters on this thread that weren’t thrilled with their off-campus housing experiences. It isn’t exactly a representative sample, either. My son has looked at a lot of housing around the area, and, you are forgetting that I have actually spent a LOT of time in and around the Penn campus. y</p>
<p>Well, I hope all the spoiled rich kids in the Radian enjoy the experience. Get yourself some good locks and mouse traps.</p>
<p>i think the major sore spot about the radian is how it’s marketed so heavily to undergraduates yet is priced way above what the majority of students can afford.</p>
<p>on a campus where students of widely disparate socioeconomic backgrounds can mesh and bond easily within the college houses and, to a lesser extent, in regular off-campus housing, having such an exclusive subgroup may ultimately prove damaging to the overall sense of community that we share as penn students.</p>
<p>My son graduated in 2004 so I have never seen the Radian. But it offers a good alternative to those who can afford it. I know my son wouldn’t think of moving in even it was available back then because he is frugal. Diverse socio-economic groups are present everywhere and there is no reason to believe that having upscale digs would prove divisive on campus.</p>
<p>The rates for the old, somewhat slummy but OK 1 bedroom apartments (small) within a couple of blocks of campus are $800-900. On top of that you have cable, electricity, water and gas. This can hit you up for an easy $200 plus a month. Even in the slum-room last semester the utilities were astronomical- the places are like sieves. You can get to $1100-1200 pretty easily. Again, this is a 1 bedroom apartment- old and not particularly nice.
The Radian is $1300 for a 1 bedroom (less for 2 bedroom and 4 bedroom) which includes everything, including furniture and washer/dryer. No extra money for utilities, internet etc. It’s still a lot of money, but when you compare it to what else is around there, it isn’t that much more.
There are definitely cheaper ways to live, but you have to compare apples to apples.</p>
<p>As long as we’re comparing apples to apples, one bedrooms at The Radian currently “start” at $1350/month for a 12 month contract.</p>
<p>But you do get:</p>
<h1>Private study room</h1>
<h1>Internet caf</h1>
<p>Direct me if I’ve missed this, but how much more is the Radian than on-campus housing?</p>
<p>it depends…highrises are along the lines of 8k to 9k a year. so radian would be about 4k more</p>
<p>let’s be accurate here. on-campus rent is listed here:
<a href=“http://www.business-services.upenn.edu/housing/ugrent0708.pdf[/url]”>http://www.business-services.upenn.edu/housing/ugrent0708.pdf</a></p>
<p>Keep in mind that the “year” for on-campus is 9 months: september thru may, but off-campus (Radian, Hamco, etc and houses) usually have a 12 month lease. You can sublet the three summer months, but can probably only get 50-66% of the normal rent rate.</p>
<p>Radian rates:
<a href=“http://www.theradianapartments.com/pdf/floorplans-pricing.pdf[/url]”>http://www.theradianapartments.com/pdf/floorplans-pricing.pdf</a></p>
<p>Off-campus rates:
<a href=“http://www.business-services.upenn.edu/offcampusliving/rentingstep/rates.htm[/url]”>http://www.business-services.upenn.edu/offcampusliving/rentingstep/rates.htm</a></p>
<p>House shares are the most representative prices under “off-campus”. Those 1 or 2 bedroom places include HamCo and Chestnut Hall, Pine Arms, etc. While those are decent places to live, I think they’re overpriced, and that Radian offers a great value in comparison (some HamCo rooms are just disgusting).</p>
<p>House shares are what most students mean when they talk about living off-campus (And what MoWC refers to when she speaks of her son’s slum.). The houses on beige block (locust at 41st) are overpriced and disgusting, but everyone only moves there for the parties. You pay a premium. Move one block further and rates drop drastically and house quality improves greatly. You get some bargaining power by getting together 6-10 people to co-sign a house. Find some friends, set up some rules, and you save money. Sublet to acquaintances or friends of friends, not strangers, and you reduce your risks. I think that house shares are a great value for good places</p>
<p>Be sure to look at the full package - both Radian and On-campus throw in some fees that aren’t immediately obvious, and most off-campus places have utilities that can vary.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the success of the Radian (it’s nearly sold out already. the place isn’t even finished yet. it was advertised rather quietly) shows that there is a large market on campus for better housing, and that people are willing to pay that much (it’s the newest building in the area by far, except for hub). I think it’d be nice if penn offered more dorm-level housing, but by building the radian they’re still filling it up and getting good cash for it, something they’re fiscally responsible to do. (The success of radian already shows that there is interest in better housing, despite the all too common Philadelphian attitude of being proud of mediocrity)</p>
<p>Good post, Matt. I agree that if you can get together a group of people you know and can find a decent house to share, that is the way to go. You still have the summer sublet problem if you aren’t going to stay in Philly.</p>
<p>I am one of those “spoiled rich kids” living in the Radian next year. I lived in the High Rises my first two years at Penn, and I would have lived there this year if I weren’t abroad. I chose the Radian for several reasons. First, I liked the bigger kitchen (and dishwasher!). I cook a lot, so for my that was a big draw. I also like that I’ll have a washer and dryer that isn’t coin operated. It’s not like the money I’ll save on laundry will offset the higher cost of the Radian, but the convenience will be nice. I also like the double beds. Finally, while I trust my roommates completely and we’re all good friends, there is always the potential for unforeseen circumstances, and I like that I don’t have to worry about being responsible for another person’s rent should they have to move out. </p>
<p>I am living with two guys and another girl, and none of us are from wealthy families. One guy is on financial aid, and his parents do not contribute any money toward his education or living expenses. Financial aid will give him a check equivalent to what he would have spent living in the High Rises, and he’ll cover the increase by working. I made the same agreement with my dad (a single parent stuck in that tricky place where his income is too high to qualify for financial aid but not high enough that it isn’t incredibly difficult for him to pay tuition): he’ll pay what he paid when I lived in the High Rises, and I’ll make up the difference with a part-time job. A four-bedroom quad in the High Rises costs $910 a month, so it will be an increase in rent of $115 a month. For me, the amenities offered at the Radian are more than worth the effort. </p>
<p>While I recognize that our little group may be in the minority, I felt it was worth pointing out that not all those who choose to live in The Radian are wealthy. While we certainly aren’t saving money by living there, the rent is not prohibitively costly either, especially when compared to the High Rises. It was an easy choice for us, even if it means we have to work a little harder our senior year to afford it.</p>
<p>everyone at Penn benefits from the Radian, not just its residents.</p>
<p>The number of students at Penn is constant. the supply of housing increases. The “slumlords” are going to have more vacancies, which means either lower prices, higher standards of maintenance, and if we are lucky, conversion of rental units into for-sale homes to build a more stable community in university city.</p>
<p>Moreover the 3900 block of Penn is transformed from a dingy, ugly strip mall into a brand new, brightly lit, well-maintained and more attractive street-level retail. Gentrification. I love it.</p>
<p>I’m curious: why would someone choose to live in a (sometimes costly) “slum house” in west philly as opposed to a reasonably priced, safe dorm room on campus?</p>
<p>@ txpenn
Do your calculations reflect the 12 month lease at the Radian vs. the 9 month lease for the high rises?</p>