<p>My S is in his third year in college. He was awarded the school's big scholarship based on his academics, EC's and service projects. However, since starting college, he has been content to do well enough in his classes to keep his scholarship and has done very little else except have fun. This is not a terrible thing, but I do feel a little like the school didn't get exactly what they were expecting and he is missing out. Any similar experiences?</p>
<p>College life does grant a higher degree of personal freedom than highschool, so it makes sense that he wants to go out and have fun. But that's not why he went to college in the first place. </p>
<p>Maybe you should pressure him to start taking his education a bit more seriously, especially if he's paying for it.</p>
<p>I am on my university's committee to select the students to receive our most prestigious scholarship. There are many perqs (in addition to full tuition, fees, room and board) that go with this scholarship and students are chosen on their potential to do great things at the university and beyond.</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how many "duds" we have each year - yes, they do well in their classes (on rare occasions they bomb out) and they participate in some mickey mouse activities, but that's it. It's an incredible disappointment to many of us.</p>
<p>Sometimes it can be because they're burnt out by the time they get to college. And sometimes it's because we picked badly. But more often I think it's caused by these students' sense of entitlement - they were recruited by lots of schools who (including us) told them they are the best thing since sliced bread. When they get here, they rest on their laurels while still feeling superior to everyone else at the university.</p>
<p>If I ran the world (or just my university) I would get rid of this program. I don't think the results justify the cost. (The money could be spent much better elsewhere.)</p>
<p>livivng up to expectations is something i have gone throgh foreever.. my eldest sister is so smart and got into an ivey league.. i still do well in school but the pressure is killing me... what can i do?</p>
<p>Inthebiz - that is exactly what I was afraid of and I agree with you. However, what he does contribute is sparking discussion in and out of class. But he is passing up many opportunities to improve himself, the college and perhaps a bit of the world. The good thing about his school is that most of these opportunities are open to all students.</p>
<p>I think it stems from parents/adults having different definitions of what excelling in college means than students do, and I'm not sure the parents/adults are as correct as they think (though I also think many students get it wrong as well).</p>
<p>I used to be a professor at a college that offered full scholarships to students with high SATs/gpas, and I saw many students do what your S is doing.They had a sense of entitlement, and some even felt that the university owed them even more (despite full rides!) just for their gracing the college campus.</p>
<p>In addition, my older S got a virtually full merit ride to college, and did less than your S is doing. While my S did wonderfully on an academic-related EC that he loved, he didn't bother to go to class, so had a below 1.0 average by the end of freshman year, his only year of college.</p>
<p>As a parent, I know that there's nothing you can do about what your S is doing, and also don't think that his behavior reflects what you taught him. Students will take their own paths while they are in college.</p>
<p>One thing to realize is that while it's unfortunate that your S isn't doing more on campus, over the longterm, who's getting cheated is himself because he is missing out on so much from his college experience -- things that could boost him into even more excellent post college opportunities. Also, he may still benefit the college by being a stellar alum who also donates to the college, something I've seen some alum do who acted similarly to your S when they were in college. Once they entered the real world, they realized how good the college had been to them, and they became gratefull and generous.</p>
<p>The students whom I saw who got excellent merit aid and then kept up their academics and took leadership in campus ECs became the administrators and professors' darlings, and were first hired for top jobs after graduation, and also got excellent graduate/professional school opportunities, summer internships, fellowships, college-sponsored trips to academic conferences, etc. The reputations that they got at the college and the relationships that they got with administrators, faculty, etc., continued to serve them well long after graduation.</p>
<p>The college where younger S got merit aid has the students with merit aid sign a document that lists what it takes to keep their scholarship and strongly encourages them to be active participants and leaders in the campus and local community. The college also has organized some projects -- including service proejcts -- that the merit scholars are encouraged to do together. I think that this will help the students with merit aid get in the habit of giving back to the campus and community.</p>
<p>modestmelody Can you elaborate on what you think the differences are in terms of student vs. adult expectations for college?</p>
<p>This sounds like a case of "youth being wasted on the young." From our vantage point, we see all these wonderful opportunities, and would love the chance to go back and avail ourselves of them. But to the kids, they're just things that are there to do if they wanted to.They don't see the bigger picture.</p>
<p>What would you like to see him doing that he's not doing? And does he know what your expectations are (specifically, not just "You should be doing more EC's.")?</p>
<p>I think, from my experience. many students view success in college by how they've gone through the learning process, how they've developed a way of thinking intellectually, and how they apply that process. My adviser freshman year, correctly, told me that if I got a 4.0 what that meant was that I had never took the time to actually think deeper about the material presented in class, never took a class that was outside of my comfort zone, and never appropriately challenged myself. He is right-- college, as he said, is designed to present quite a bit to students all at once, and when something truly grabs you and requires that you do deep, further investigation to truly understand it, you'll find yourself falling behind. Perhaps this is more true in the sciences than in other fields, but often if you take the time to truly "own" the concepts you'll lose the content and vice versa.</p>
<p>Often, what one learns cannot be measured accurately through grades. I cannot tell you how many times I've learned the material through the process of taking the exam rather than before the exam. A truly challenging exam can do this to even the top students, especially those who spend time trying to get some larger, conceptual understanding from their courses. I regard exams as fun, and rarely do all that well. Is it because I'm not smart? I don't think so. In fact, I know that I did well in HS and was completely bored and learned almost nothing because of it. I've done worse on every exam since getting into college but have found great pleasure in those errors as I was challenged and forced to think through in a way that high school didn't provide me.</p>
<p>I don't do too many extracurriculars, though what I am involved in is hugely important to the university. The reason I'm not involved though is the same reason I onyl did a few things seriously in highs school-- extracurricular clubs and organizations are quite often far from what parents/adults thing they are. They often serve very little purpose, accomplish very little, and DON'T provide the extracurricular learning one expects. Of course, there are MANY exceptions, but that varies from school to school and the exception may not lie in your son/daughter's area of interest. For instance, there is a Formula Race Car team here at Brown that provides an unparalleled learning experience, but I have no academic interest in that kind of thing so I'm not taking advantage of it. Somethings I do have an interest in don't have meaningful formal extracurricular organization. However, that does not mean I'm not engaged outside of the curriculum! The friends I've chosen and time I spend with them is OFTEN an intellectual experience. I know far more than what I've learned in class in areas I've not yet ventured because of these interactions. I've thought more, been forced to flesh out ideas further, changed minds more, and changed my own mind more from these experiences.</p>
<p>What it comes down to is that all the things parents/adults THINK demonstrate that a young adult is getting what they should out of college do not necessarily demonstrate these things all that well. Even when the goals and expectations are the same, the metrics are not right for everyone and certainly don't tell the whole story.</p>
<p>I wouldn't expect your son or daughter to necessarily be able to or desire ot engage you on how the less measured, less evident things they do have made the sum-total of their experiences far greater than the parts, but it's quite possible and likely this is occurring, especially amongst smart students who seem to be "slacking".</p>
<p>"I don't do too many extracurriculars, though what I am involved in is hugely important to the university. "</p>
<p>Because college ECs allow a deeper involvement than do high school ECs, in general, college students who pursue ECs are involved in fewer than they were in high school. College is a time that students get to pursue ECs in great depth, the kind of depth that isn't possible at most high schools due to time constraints and the advisor supervision and regulations that high school students come under.</p>
<p>"The reason I'm not involved though is the same reason I onyl did a few things seriously in highs school-- extracurricular clubs and organizations are quite often far from what parents/adults thing they are. They often serve very little purpose, accomplish very little, and DON'T provide the extracurricular learning one expects. "</p>
<p>A reason that colleges use merit money to lure students who were outstanding academic performers and leaders in high school is to improve the quality of campus ECs. Such students have the vision, passion and expertise to help campus ECs become much stronger. I have seen students jump start organizations to make them exciting contributors to the campus and community.</p>
<p>Since you're involved deeply in campus ECs, my comments aren't designed to suggest that you do more with ECs on your campus. My comments are, though, aimed at students who go to college and then are disappointed in ECs while failing to realize that they have the ability to make a change. Taking on such a challenge would help the students gain leadership skills and other expertise that will serve them well for a lifetime as well as help attract to them likeminded peers who may become lifelong friends.</p>
<p>Maybe I haven't had enough coffee but when I read this thread my first thought was "what have I done recently in my adult life that is extraordinary?"
Isn't part of college growing up from a teenager to an adult? My college sophomore spent some time with distant relatives recently. They told me, "he is all grown up. You and his father did a great job". Maybe I aim small but I glowed for a week. That was all I needed to hear. Music to my ears.</p>
<p>ebeeee -- I think you have the right idea. The whole "growing up" thing has been a major part of my personal college experience, perhaps hte most important.</p>
<p>If your son is doing well enough to keep his scholarship, he IS living up to the college's official expectations (though perhaps not their unofficial expectations that the people they lure to campus with these special scholarships will turn out to do spectacular things that enhance the college's reputation).</p>
<p>What does he want out of college? Is he getting it?</p>
<p>Sometime during the current year, he is probably going to start thinking about what he will do after he graduates. Is he on the right track for whatever he is planning? If not, what else might he want to do (for example, now might be the time for an extracurricular activity or maybe a summer internship or research opportunity related to his post-college plans).</p>
<p>I don't think he should feel guilty about not meeting the college's expectations. But if he's not meeting his own expectations, then maybe a change in focus is in order.</p>
<p>When I said the students who receive our prestigious scholarship are duds, it's not that they don't do ECs (they often do) but much of that what they tend to do is the EC equivalent of busy work. (I don't like busy work in the classroom and I don't like it outside either.) </p>
<p>What we are funding is potential . . . potential to have important, interesting learning experiences as undergraduates that will take these students wherever they want to go. All too often, they do not take advantage of these opportunities such as research or funding for academic explortions/internships/service anywhere in the world. (We literally have to beg them to apply for this funding.) Interestingly, our other high-ability students jump at these opportunities and they end up being our nominees for things like the Rhodes and NSF and having very full undergraduate experiences that take them to the best graduate schools. (It amazes me how many of the grads from our prestige program are happy to go to our State U for grad school/med school (not that there's anything wrong with that!) because to do what it takes to go to the top programs just is too much to ask of them.)</p>
<p>As I said, there's a sense of entitlement and a tendency to rest on their HS laurels that I just don't understand. They're only cheating themselves. As chedva said, youth is wasted on the young!</p>
<p>Inthebiz, I have to tell you that "resting on one's laurels" doesn't end with a HS career. I worked with a number of Harvard Law graduates, whose attitudes boiled down to, "I don't have to do that. I went to Harvard!" or "Of course I should get the best assignments; I graduated from Harvard. I shouldn't have to work and prove myself!" They never went anywhere with their careers, while one of the most successful attorneys I know worked as a legal secretary while putting himself through law school at night. Sometimes you just have to be hungry!</p>
<p>Inthebiz, I think that the problem with some of these kids is that they made enormous sacrifices to accomplish what they did in high school. In many cases, they sacrificed free time, hobbies, friends, social activities, and dating to focus intensely on academics and suitably impressive ECs, including community service activities. </p>
<p>They never had time to just relax or have fun. And in some cases, they sacrificed their true interests for those that look better on paper.</p>
<p>For them, college may be able to be their first chance to be themselves, and explore aspects of life -- such as unstructured time and social activities -- that they could only have dreamed of in high school.</p>
<p>inthebiz-- I think it's very wrong to think that promising high school students are living up to their potential only if they're going to the best graduate schools and winning hte most prestigious awards, etc.</p>
<p>Students don't all see these things as desirable, necessary, important, or even a consideration in their personal growth, socially and intellectually, which is the whole goal of college for many.</p>
<p>I think Marian is on to something. Also part of my S's problem is not having plans for after college. He went in undecided and has picked a major based on his favorite interest but has no idea what to do with it. He has given it thought, but has just not found anything. I am pretty sure he will bloom later and am happy he is happy. My worry is that he has let the school down as has been pointed out, and that he is missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity.</p>
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They never had time to just relax or have fun. And in some cases, they sacrificed their true interests for those that look better on paper.</p>
<p>For them, college may be able to be their first chance to be themselves, and explore aspects of life -- such as unstructured time and social activities -- that they could only have dreamed of in high school.
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<p>I think you're right and that's a shame. Kids should not be burnt out by the time they reach college. That's one more reason I think we (and others) should stop this crazy arms race and get rid of these scholarships (as well as other changes in the college admissions game). Maybe then, kids can have more time in HS for social activities/personal development. HS shouldn't be the end of taking on challenges/being involved/exploring opportunities . . . it should only be the beginning.</p>
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I think it's very wrong to think that promising high school students are living up to their potential only if they're going to the best graduate schools and winning hte most prestigious awards, etc.
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<p>I don't think that going to the best graduate schools etc. is the only measure of living up to potential. But, those things open up doors of opportunity for their future. It seems foolish to me to ignore them. </p>
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Students don't all see these things as desirable, necessary, important, or even a consideration in their personal growth, socially and intellectually, which is the whole goal of college for many.
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<p>I don't see these goals as mutually exclusive. Plenty of students grow personally, socially and intellectually (and have lots of fun) while also taking advantage of opportunities they are offered. (As well as the fact that these opportunities, in and of themselves, offer the chance to grow personally, socially, and intellectually.)</p>