I have recently received admission into a locked in medical program with Rosemont and Drexel. However, Drexel boasts itself as a clinical medical school, and I want to go into genetic pathology. I realize they have some research there, but not as much as other medical schools which is making me lean away from it. Additionally, since my undergrad would be accelerated there will be no opportunities for research in my undergrad. The big advantage of it is I am essentially allowed a seat in their medical school if I get the national avg MCAT score. However, the disadvantages are no research.
My other options are Case Western, Rochester, and Northeastern. I am leaning towards Northeastern because of their co-ops and research opportunities. Most people think I am making a stupid decision my turning down a locked in program. Is this really being stupid?
Thanks
What do you mean by locked in?
Doing a coop does not necessarily help you with medical school admissions in future. Most people take a gap year instead to pad their resume and doing something interesting, when they decide that they don’t have a strong enough resume at the end of 3 years to get into medical school.
https://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/cdc/2015-MatchList.asp#pathology
People do seem to match into Pathology from Drexel. Genetic pathology is at the fellowship level. Many change their goals based on their performance in medical school in terms of what they want to do. So having a goal to do a specific fellowship 10 years out and assuming a specific medical college may not support that goal is a bit too much planning.
I’m not a huge fan of accelerated BS/MD programs. I think they encourage young people to make career decisions far too soon and put a really vocational spin on what is supposed to be, at least in part, an exploratory experience for students. That said, I realize their value and utility in students who are fairly certain they want to be doctors, especially with med school admit rates being somewhere around 50%.
I would challenge the assumption that you wouldn’t be able to do research as an undergrad - ask someone in the program and find out for sure. I think it’d be a little short-sighted for an accelerated program to preclude research opportunities as an undergrad. Also, yes, check out how often Drexel students go into genetic pathology. Keep in mind that your ideas about your specialty may shift - dramatically - as you progress through college and med school. It happens all the time even just for students who take a regular route through med school: they think they want to pursue one specialty as a first-year medical student and then change their mind before they graduate. I can only imagine how often it might happen for someone who is still 7-8 years away from graduating from med school.
On the other hand, If you have assured admission to a med school then undergrad research opportunities won’t really matter as much. You can do research in medical school. And even if you can’t, there are lots of postdocs that are designed precisely for MDs who want to make the transition into research careers but don’t have much research experience from med school. You spend 2-3 years at a university doing research with professors, maybe earning a (free) master’s degree in some research oriented field like public health or health services research.
Also, Rosemont is a really tiny college. Do you want to go to a really tiny college for undergrad?
I don’t think it’s stupid to turn down an accelerated BS/MD program. The fact is, the program simply may not be what you want for your undergrad experience, and there are many different ways to get into medical school. That said, I don’t think you should turn it down because you’re afraid you won’t be able to get into the specialty you want to get into - because I think it’s a bit premature for you to decide definitively on a specialty and because I think there are many ways to enter that after attending Drexel Med. If you turn it down I think it should be because the experience does not offer what you want in a college experience - and that includes the research, IMO.
Drexel requires no grades below C (C- is below), maintain a 3.5 GPA and an MCAT score of 506 (about a 71 percentile). But it’s worse than that. You can get no subscore below 127 on the 2 science and critical reading and a 125 on psych. Since very few get flat subscores, you will need to score higher than the 506 to secure the subscore minimums. These requirements don’t seem to fit the description of “locked in”.
I look at this in different angles. First, you need to visit Rosemont and like it. While you are there you need to make an appointment with your department head and ask the question about the research, don’t assume. Second, don’t make too early decision on what you will be seven years ahead, pathology. It’s too difficult to make a specialty choice here. Third, the minimum requirement by Dexel, a Gpa of 3.5 and Mcat of 71 percent is below the average Drexel MD applicants acceptance rate, with that score you may not be able to be accepted by Any MD schools. So, while you visiting Rosemont you should also ask for the program success rate history.
Overall, congratulations to your acceptance into a highly regarded bs/md program, your decision of attending any program is yours. There is no way we here can direct you in any way.
There is no such thing as “locked in” medical program. For example, my own D. was in the combined bs/md program and she decided to apply out. Nobody can “lock you down” so to speak. She had an advantage of retaining her spot at the medical school in her program, while applying out. She was accepted to 3 additional medical schools and had great choices at the end, had hard time deciding. Eventually, after long research and going to the Second Look events at couple of her choices, she choose to attend at medical school OUTSIDE of her bs/md program. She made a great choice for herself as she was able to match to her first choice of residency in very selective specialty.
Aside from this, the medical research opportunities are absolutely everywhere and it is up to you to organize your time. On the other hand, UG research while is important if you are applying 'regular route" to medical schools, does not have as much meaning as research during medical school (every medical student has done research as far as I am aware).
Another note, while it seems to you now, that one specialty is the most attractive to you, it most likely will change. My D. is a great exception to this rule, she got where she wanted to be way back in HS. However, even she considered other options, but they fell out after rotations in various specialties during medical school. So, keep your mind open to various possibilities.
I’d take Case Western, Northeastern, or Rochester
The Rosemont-Drexel program is NOT “locked in”, there are so many conditions that you may well attend a tiny fourth-tier college with zero recognition… and then be stuck. The risk is quite high, but do check with them: do 100% students get into Drexel? 90%? 60%? Because you don’t want to be one of the others.
In addition, I worry about the wisdom of choosing a college where you’ll have few peers - perhaps a classroom full. What would it be like to attend a high school with only 25 students and 10 peers? Can you imagine that for college?
What I mean by this is that the college only has 520 students, and most of them score in the 400s for either math or English; 530 is the threshold for their top 25% (ie., only about 32 students in your whole class will have a score of about 1000-1100 on the SAT, or more. Only about TEN of them will have a score of 600 or higher on either section.)
DO you really want to spend 3 years attending such a college?
It serves a purpose, but it’s not meant for you: I doubt you’d learn much, be challenged, find your peers.
And if you realize this too late… you’ve lost your chances at scholarships as a transfer.
If you’ve got the chops for such a program, you’ve got the chops for med school. Give yourself the chance of attending one of the three fine institutions that admitted you, do everything you can, and don’t look back.
The percentage of acceptance to medical school from the particular college is a very misleading number. It highly depends on the program (the severity level of weed out classes) as well as the policies of the pre-med committee that simply may not support the applicants below certain threshold. Frankly, we did not check this number at all, as it is irrelevant to a specific student. What is very relevant though is the quality of the pre-med committee. Frankly we did not realize the importance of that and D. just got very lucky with hers. However, I would check it with pre-meds at colleges under consideration. Applying early to Medical schools is one of the most important positive factors and the pre-med committee holds a key to this aspect of application and few other important facts like last minute changes in medical school requirements,…etc.
Many other statistics is not relevant as much more depends on the student in UG then the college itself. Yes, it is on YOUR shoulders and nobody else or place will make much difference at all. People get accepted to amazing, top 20, to 10,…etc. medical schools from unknown low ranked colleges. Medical schools are looking for self-reliant, self-driven, self-motivated people who will do well in any circumstances, under any conditions which many times are not promoting success so to speak. That is one reason why Medical schools do not pay much attention to the name of your UG, they rather look at you personally and what you have achieved, the fine institution or whatever is your personal choice, not any more than that.
I liked a lot my D’s comment when she was applying to colleges: “I will do fine anywhere”. I believe that this is the correct attitude. However, she made sure to choose a college that met the most of HER personal criteria, which was irrelevant to her plan of attending the medical school with the exception of being in bs/md program. She was looking forward to enjoy her next 4 years. I wish you the same!!
Two of the brightest people I know are Rosemont grads. That being said, before I would even consider this particular program I would check out their science department and see if it is of a caliber that it will give you what you want as a pre-med regardless the connection with Drexel. Rosemont is a very small school located in a pretty area quite near Bryn Mawr, Haverford and Villanova. I have no doubt that there have been science students who went on to medical school from there but Rosemont is not known for its science department.
While generally I agree with you, I think in the case of a BS/MD program this number is far more informational - assuming it’s represented as the number of people who enroll in the program who get into or graduate from medical school. The point of a BS/MD program is that there should be no weeding. It completely defeats the purpose of choosing that type of program if a large chunk of people don’t get to move on to medical school.
With regard to the qualifications placed on you by this program (which are a fair amount), Brown PLME requires that you graduate with a degree from Brown and pass a certain list of courses (close to, but not identical to the traditional pre-med pre-reqs, e.g. orgo 2 was never required of PLMEs when I was a student there). That’s it. So in contrast to Drexel which requires a 3.5 GPA and an MCAT score of 506, Brown requires a 2.0 GPA and no MCAT. That’s what a guaranteed spot looks like. And in contrast to Miami’s D, if you choose to apply out of Brown, you forfeit your spot in the medical school class, so you better get in somewhere else.
I did not realize that Rosemont is a separate institution from Drexel and with a student body of such lower academic caliber. I would not choose this program over your other options if I were you. As others have said, Rosemont itself does not sound like a good match for you, and if you don’t end up being admitted to Drexel (either because you fail to qualify or because you decide an MD isn’t for you coughPhDcough) you have severely handicapped yourself by having a Rosemont diploma instead of from the other 3.
“The point of a BS/MD program is that there should be no weeding.” - not true at all. The people in the program are taking exactly the same classes as general student body. I believe that the average “survivor” rate in D’s program was about 50% over several years. I believe we even heard this number during info session before D. choose this specific program. But again, each program is different. I do not believe though that 100% is representing the bs/md programs. D’s program also required something like college GPA of 3.45 and MCAT of 27 (old MCAT). While MCAT score was low (many had 25 on the first diagnostic practice test before any preparation), college GPA of 3.45 is very high, more so considering some weed out classes with very few As in them. D. attended at in-state public and it did not hurt her at all in any shape or form. I do not believe it would have hurt her either if she decided that medicine is not for her. How having straight As in your transcript can hurt anybody? Again, your future is on YOUR shoulders and it does not depend much on your academic place. It did not hurt anybody in my family, while none of us went to any Elite / private college and nobody is in medicine with the exception of our D.
More so, I am familiar with Case. While D. considered Case for her UG, her best friend actually graduated from Case. Both D. and her friend had straight As on their transcripts and basically were able to choose what medical school to attend, neither of them had superior college academics in comparison to another, they had similar ones being the top caliber students at the different places.
Your life, your decision, though…nobody can tell with great certainty which program is the best for you.
Drexel currently has several fast tracked combined programs and they are with Lehigh, Villanova, Rosemont and Drexel.
They also have some other type with Muhlenberg, Robert Morris and Monmouth.
http://drexel.edu/medicine/Academics/MD-Program/MD-Program-Admissions/Accelerated-Early-Linkage/
Essentially several colleges are trying to attract good students via these programs with Drexel Med and they all seem to have around 5+ seats.
Essentially bright kids are attending these feeder colleges and they may not ever go there if the MD program didn’t exist.
Right, and to me, if a BS/MD program matriculates kids into med school at about the same rate as applicants get into medical school nationally, then it’s a complete waste to turn down a preferred undergraduate program to attend the BS/MD.
Brown has ~60 kids/year in PLME, and the number who don’t go to med school from that 60 can probably be counted on one hand. At least 1-2 of those kids aren’t going to Brown med school because they’re going to Harvard or Hopkins instead (especially back when you didn’t have to forfeit your spot to apply), and the others are leaving medicine entirely by choice. I think you’d have to put in a conscious effort to get your GPA below 2.0 at Brown (and you’ll be in much bigger problems than not going to medical school if you did).
Exactly. This is the point of these programs: to get kids who would almost never set foot on campus without the “guaranteed” MD. UTSW recently joined Northwestern as being the only top 25 medical schools with a joint program. Only two top 25 undergrads have such programs (Northwestern and Brown). There’s a reason you don’t see them at the rest of their peers.
No, it was not a waste for my D. to be in bs/md. She still holds the same opinion (first year resident) that having a guaranteed spot for 3.45 / 27 made a huge difference in her UG, 3.45 / 27 was much lower than Regular Route, by far not about the same. It was very relaxing for her to take an MCAT knowing that she needs only 27, it allowed her to get a 35, which in turn allowed her to apply out.
I agree with one thing - one must love the college that she is attending. But thinking that you will be a “big fish” in any bs/md is NOT correct at all. All bs/md’s accept the cream of the crop, they simply have way too many applicants for very few spots. D. was honored to be accepted to her bs/md that had only 10 spots.
But again, I can only share my experience and refrain from direct advising, it is up to OP to decide.
It is true that UT Dallas is getting around 20 top notch students who are turning down top 20 school admissions who would never set foot at UTD without a UT Southwestern admission.
^the problem is that we can’t compare UTD or MiamiOH with Rosemont. UTDallas is a legit university. Sure, the caliber of students isn’t as good as UT’s, but the CollegiumV and McDermott scholars are outstanding, there are numerous classes, up-to-date facilities. Rosemont has about 500 students TOTAL (not the freshman class: the whole college) and they mostly score in the 400’s for math and English on the SAT with the TOP 25% threshold being at 505 for math and 525 for CR. In other words, when 75% students have scores below these, classes are geared toward that academic level, and such an academic level is not what you want for med school preparation, direct program or not (especially since this isn’t a real “direct program” since there are lots of conditions.) Professors are on 4/4, ie., no research, and it’s too small to have even adequate facilities.
OP wouldn’t have peers and his/her gen ed classes with such a small group of under-prepared students would not be good.
Rosemont isn’t Miami-Ohio or UTD and I really don’t think OP should attend there, whereas it’d be a great fit for either Miami Oh or UTD two fine universities with good teaching, excellent science classes, facilities, etc.
UT Dallas has an ACT composite going from 25 to 31 for the middle 50 which I don’t consider that high. Texas has a hierarchical system based on the class rank and only those who dont make it into UT, A&M would even consider other schools within Texas and UTD does not really beat out many other state schools for the prime candidates. UTD essentially tries to rope in good students by offering lots of money based on various levels of achievement, McDermotts and the combined program. The students attending the BS/MD program at UTD are some of the best Texas has to offer and many wouldn’t set foot on campus if their life depended on it without the medical seat tied to that admission. I know a few parents who promised their kids all kinds of things in order to accept the admission. This is not to say UTD is not a good school in its own right, just that the students being roped in are only there because of the carrot.
^I understand that in Texas UTD isn’t the place for top performers - it’s a bit like Temple in Pennsylvania: the top performers go there because of special programs. And you’re absolutely right, those direct route medical programs often work in that way for the colleges.
If Rosemont had ACT scores in the 25-31 range and, say, 2,000 students, it’d be a fine pick for OP. But we’re talking of a freshman class with scores in the 17-22 range - that is, even the best students at Rosemont are way lower than the worst students at UTD. And there are only about one hundred of them (the total number of students at the college has 522 students. It’s struggling to stay open.)
I guarantee you, that kids with " ACT scores in the 25-31 range" have very low chance at getting into bs/md program, ANY of them, including at the lowest ranked unknown colleges. So, the discussion about the general body at any college that has a bs/md program is completely irrelevant.
^miamidap, at Rosemount only about 10 freshmen have a 30 on their act, including the bsmd students who decided to enroll. Not ten percent. Ten, as in, you can count them on both hands.