<p>I've been reading this forum on and off for a few years now, but am now in the stage of study where I am starting to narrow down which programs I might be interested in so I've been reading more here. I've repeated seen it mentioned that the reputation of the undergrad school doesn't really matter in graduate admissions. Then what is the point in going to a really challenging school.</p>
<p>I could have continued at a smaller school and continued with my 4.0 GPA, and instead transferred to the best school in the state and struggle with maintaining a 3.5. If it's ultimately only going to put you at a numerical disadvantage and not give you a boost based on recommendation, then isn't it a mistake to attend a top 25 (or top 50) university?</p>
<p>Graduate faculties are also familiar with the quality of many undergraduate programs and adjust their expectations accordingly, e.g. a 3.7 at a tough school would equal a 4.0 at an easier school, and a 4.0 from the tough school is unmatched. Going to the tough school gives you more room to pull ahead of the pack. The bigger name schools give you a better opportunity to distinguish yourself, nothing more.</p>
<p>The other major factor that people overlook: far and away the single most important part of a graduate application is the statement of purpose.</p>
<p>Someone with a 4.0 from a “tough” school will get rejected in favor of someone with a 3.5 from a good school if Mr. 4.0’s SoP is a muddled mess that more or less boils down to “I have a 4.0, therefore I’d be good at grad school,” as opposed to Ms. 3.5, who made a coherent case for her interest in graduate research.</p>
The reputation of the undergrad school in and of itself doesn’t help much, but that doesn’t mean that going to a good undergrad school doesn’t help tremendously in graduate admissions.</p>
<p>Attending a great undergrad school and taking advantage of the resources available to you at such a school (research experiences, relationships with well-known professors in your field that lead to strong letters of recommendation, a challenging slate of courses, etc.) most certainly makes a difference in the strength of your application to graduate school. It’s not about graduate admissions personnel being impressed by the name on your diploma, it’s about your alma mater making available to you all kinds of things that strengthen your CV and your education.</p>
<p>I am confident that I would not be in the PhD program I am in (one of the top programs in my field) had I attended my safety undergrad school.</p>
Is this true across the board? I have heard math professors say that they don’t pay much attention to SOPs for “traditional” applicants because they all read alike.</p>
<p>Oh, I DEFINITELY do not confuse USNWR rankings with quality of educational program I used the term “top” 25 only as an indication of what I determine to be the most important aspect, quality and difficulty of program. I know that my university is one that offers stellar academics. I don’t question that. I was just curious what role if any it played, I couldn’t believe it was completely ignored. Mollie’s explanation seems quite logical. It makes sense that things such as professor reputation, etc would ultimately make a big difference. While maybe the school name alone isn’t enough to push you through admissions, maybe there will be some notice of the reasons the school got the name in the first place.</p>
<p>From my experience applying and talking to professors in natural resources/recreation fields, a well-written SOP that demonstrates a focused research interest is not as common as one might think.</p>
<p>^ I have been actively discouraged by professors at several universities to state a research interest more specific than “number theory” or “low-dimensional topology” because I would look naive and narrow-minded. There’s also an impressive number of NSF fellowships awarded in the specialty “Mathematics - Other: Undecided”.</p>
<p>The SOP is a fine line: too narrow and you’ll get “that’s nice, but we have no one here who does that” or “the one professor who does that isn’t taking on new students right now”; too broad and you’ll get “he has no clue what he wants to do” or they might misunderstand your intent.
The most important thing, however, is not the SOP but the LORs. These 2 things tell them who you are as a person, more than just stats and grades. The LORs come from established and known peoples who are somewhat impartial.</p>
<p>Ah, but the trick is to identify faculty who are interested in your research interest, and apply to their programs. Then you can be as specific as you want.</p>
<p>That’s assuming they have the funding or desire to take on a new graduate student. You’re essentially putting all your eggs into that one basket. You could email the prof and ask, but they might not respond. However, if they get to know you personally, then the SOP becomes pointless.</p>
<p>In my discipline, there’s only one or at most two faculty specializing in my topic of interest at any given university. So I contacted professors, and those who weren’t taking students, I just didn’t apply to that program and moved on.</p>
<p>The SOP isn’t pointless if you get to know a prof - for one, it has to help convince the rest of the admissions committee.</p>
<p>Good for you that you have such a clear vision of your research interests. Just realize that that’s not an option in some other fields. For example, aspiring mathematicians probably don’t know enough math to understand the research interests of their future advisor, even only in very general terms, until 2 years into grad school. You wouldn’t expect a middle school student to write a “why I will love calculus” essay either - they don’t yet know what calculus is and they also don’t need to know.</p>
<p>This is quite interesting but I want to chime in-</p>
<ul>
<li>Your undergraduate matters. CC is not what happens in real life and most of it is hearsay (as my consecutive claim). Its not because the professors are shallow, but because from experience, they have noticed that people from certain undergrads tend to be well prepared for graduate school, even though two candidates might have the same credential on paper. I talked to faculty about this issue and they strongly confirm that undergraduate matters to some extent. In fact where you do a masters degree sometimes matters too.</li>
</ul>
<p>-SOP, well you could/should mention faculty. However put the twist that this is the type of research you are interested in, and make your faculty selection broad. </p>
<p>It strongly depends on the field and school a lot. That’s the problem with graduate school, there is no specific guideline across board and it just makes prospective applicants worry sick.</p>
I used the term “top” 25 only as an indication of what I determine to be the most important aspect, quality and difficulty of program. I know that my university is one that offers stellar academics. I don’t question that. I was just curious what role if any it played, I couldn’t believe it was completely ignored. Mollie’s explanation seems quite logical. It makes sense that things such as professor reputation, etc would ultimately make a big difference. While maybe the school name alone isn’t enough to push you through admissions, maybe there will be some notice of the reasons the school got the name in the first place.</p>