Looking ahead - LACs vs. small universities

Parents Forum
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<p>Take a look at Rice (3000 undergrads, but planning to gradually expand) and Washington university in St. Louis. Although both are tough to get into, they meet many of your criteria. Vanderbilt University is another, but like Rice not Division III (and instead of Psych, they have a neuroscience department of some type). S2 was very impressed with Rice and will be a frosh there next year.</p>

<p>And I'll second the ease of cross registration at the Claremont Colleges. S1 is at Mudd and all the schools have their classes available for registration from the same page. Schools are close enough together that last week he had a class canceled and was able to go swimming at both Scripps and CMC during the resulting gap in the schedule.</p>

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<p>I would definitely also recommend the Claremont Colleges, specifically Pomona seems to be an excellent fit.</p>

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<p>Yeah I'm going to Pomona next year, and from what you've described it sounds like the perfect fit for your daughter. Claremont McKenna, which is right next to Pomona, works too. Its a little easier to get into, though I think its still pretty selective.</p>

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<p>Pomona accepted 15% this year. Go ahead and apply, but this school is a huge reach for anyone.</p>

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<p>Good coverage of this topic on this thread. I think the hidden benefit of LACs is the available academic experience outside one's major. Entry-level classes are smaller, and profs tend to be more flexible in granting permissions to non-majors or waiving prerequisites if one makes a good case. For related reasons, shy students tend to fare better at LACs.</p>

<p>Schools like Wash U, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon offer a lot, but like large unis, some of the resource edge they have over LACs will only be available to very top or very aggressive students. </p>

<p>All that said, I would put U of Chicago, Tufts and maybe Rice on the list for this student. Along with Macalester, Swarthmore, Vassar, Wellesley, Bryn Mawr and Barnard.</p>

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<p>These are some great comments! Thanks so much to everyone. JHS, I found your insight especially interesting as I haven’t thought about it this way. Perhaps, I’m overestimating the significance of course selection. I know my D, and she is not the type to go fight for a particular course or resource, or research position. She will use what is readily available and most likely will not be able to take advantage of all that multitude of courses. In my mind, she is definitely more suited for LAC environment. But that is why I want to expose her to both and see where her heart is. I may be wrong after all.</p>

<p>People are mentioning a lot of great LACs, but I would like to know some less selective ones, as well. Since D is only a freshman now, it’s hard to know what her chances will be. She is attending a good International school in UK which teaches IB program exclusively (K-12) and she will have spent 5 years there by the time she graduates. She is getting consistent mix of 6 and 7s now, and has glowing reviews from all her teachers, but that is not a sure guarantee of high IB Diploma score or SAT scores. Claremont consortium is very attractive for many reasons, but Pomona is a super reach for anyone. The same goes for Swarthmore. I think Scripps is more realistic. CMC is too leadership/politics oriented for her, and too much partying. Pitzer is a bit of a dark horse for me, but it seems a little “out there” in terms of student body (although psychology is supposed to be strong there).
So it would be good to have some good, but less selective LACs/small unis on the initial list. After reading CC for a while, I’m very conscious of having a good safety or two.</p>

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<p>Another aspect – how much influence do coaches have in LACs/small unis? I know that at Pomona, coaches have no pull with admission committee. D would fit right in at swim team there and would be a scorer, but it would be foolish to rely on any help from the coach. However, I suspect that CMC/Scripps coach is probably recruiting (because their team is significantly stronger than Pomona’s). I know, DIII sports do not recruit officially, but unofficially, they do at certain schools. Does anyone know if Swarthmore, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Macalester, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, Brandeis can be of any help?</p>

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<p>us<em>uk</em>mom, your D and my kid sound like separated at birth twins . Artsy, athletic, interested in psychology, looking for a small "intellectual" college...
Pomona is a total crapshoot for a female applicant; we heard that fewer than 10% of girls who applied were admitted this year. You are completely correct in your assessment of Pomona's coaches weight in the admissions process. I have a feeling that CMS coaches do have a say when it comes to academically competitive athletes. Same goes for Wellesley, although the coaches would probably deny it. Your D should definitely contact the coaches at the schools she is interested in and fill out the recruitment questionnaires.</p>

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<p>I know zip, zero, nada about Div III sports, but rereading this thread and your daughter's other concerns, Smith College comes to mind. It's an intellectually engaged all-women's large LAC (2600 or thereabouts). Its location is not "rural" but is alongside the main street of a safe, artsy small city of Northampton, Massachusetts. Smith is in the same 5-college consortium as Amherst so she could take courses there, or at Mt. Holyoke, Hampshire, Univ of Massachusetts. In fact I'd have noted Mt. Holyoke (another all-women's) but she said not rural. </p>

<p>She'd have to consider all-women's education (within that coed context that includes Amherst or UMass at a 7 mile distance). As for their psychology department, I just don't know. A big booster of Smith is the poster "Mini" whose daughter is just graduating and moving on to a fine graduate school opportunity.</p>

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<p>I think at LACs, while there is no money for athletics, if you can contribute to the overall mix of the campus, it is a help; I have a feeling the coaches input was at the very least helpful to my Ds app at Vassar</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>If you speak of cross-registration, nothing beats the Claremont colleges. While they separately admit students and have different emphases, they physically share the same campus, with a new college starting every couple of streets. When we looked at them, several years ago, it was posssible to take up to 25% of your courses in another of the colleges.</p></li>
<li><p>If you're looking at Catholic schools, you might also consider St. Mary's. Division I sports (no football, though) and location in the San Francisco Bay area.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>How about Gonzaga or Whitworth in PNW?</p>

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<p>The schools Janey suggests both offer merit and are in Eastern WA, so not so rainy!</p>

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<p>Thanks Janey and somemom - I checked both out. Unfortunately, they are both Christian schools, while we would prefer nondenominational colleges.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
how much influence do coaches have in LACs/small unis?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I’m not a sports/recruitment expert so I’ll just mention my observation from my son’s athlete friends, many of whom were female. These small colleges, even the most egghead-ish, all have 20+ varsity teams that they need to maintain. The coaches may or may not exert influence or use their admissions tips to assure that the places are filled, but at the end of the day the admissions committee understands that the teams exist and need players. At a college with 2000 students the percentage of athletes can ironically be higher than at a big sports focused university.</p>

<p>Same goes for the arts, whether it’s studio art, drama, music or dance: The colleges need artists and performers and it’s up to the admissions committee to admit them.</p>

<p>An applicant who can offer academics, sports and arts is, to me, the trifecta for admissions to an LAC – three-for-one – so it’s important to convince admissions that she will continue to participate in her ECs and to involve the coaches and arts faculty in the admissions decision.</p>

<p>Some colleges are notably more “sporty” than others, but all have sports. So it depends on your daughter’s attitude toward her sport. Some kids see their sport as a meal ticket, or an admissions enhancer, but don’t much care about the cultural aspects of a healthy mind / healthy body philosophy. Others are looking for environments that value physical activity – not at the expense of intellectual and artistic pursuits, but in addition to. </p>

<p>Though my son didn’t participate in team sports he is outdoorsy and likes being around active people. At the same time, he’s an intellectual and artist and needed to find an environment that offered a balance of all three. He was not prepared to sacrifice one for another.</p>

<p>For him the schools that seemed the most balanced were Williams, Wesleyan, Hamilton and Kenyon – excellent academics, dedicated arts funding and creative influence, widespread sports participation. For less selectives, Skidmore and Conn College. Pomona definitely falls in with this group but he decided to focus east.</p>

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<p>If this girl wants warmer weather, she is NOT going to be happy at Smith, Vassar, Amherst, Mt Holyoke. Tufts, Wellesley, Brandeis, MacCalester....they all have mighty cold winters. </p>

<p>I'm not sure I understand the kind if "quirky" this gal is. Could you clarify a bit (or did I miss it??). Is she a sciency kind of kid, or artsy or what? That would make a big difference. </p>

<p>My daughter goes to a school with about 4500 undergrads. She looked as some smaller schools as well. She did get interesting advice about one school (1600 undergrads)...a wise friend said...go someplace larger. If you don't find your niche, there will be plenty of other places to look. That might not be the case at a smaller school.</p>

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<p>A lot of the west coast small privates have a religious background, but then many of the Ivy's did, too. You might want to check it out on a case by case basis, some are actually religious, some in name & association only</p>

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<p>I think the OP meant no constant rain like here in the PNW. If NE and Midwest colleges do not fit the weather criteria too, then the search pretty much narrows down to CA LACs and Rice (and Davidson, may be?). In CA, in addition to the Claremonts, Occidental College is worth looking at, although my D decided to pass it up - it was too urban for her.</p>

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<p>There are a bunch of school in the DC area too (milder weather there). That's why I'm curious what kind of "quirky" this kid is. If she is interested in engineering types of schools (techie schools) that is very different than artsy types of schools.</p>

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<p>thumper, I can clarify a bit about the “quirkiness”. I hope I’m not revealing too much to make D personally identifiable. She is artsy and creative, but with a certain bend. She is very good at traditional art (life drawing, portraits), but her real interests are anime/comics/cartoons and fantasy fiction, both reading and writing. She found a niche online, in the anime community, and also in the role playing games community (not WOW type, but moderated fantasy games, where each person takes on a character and “plays” it – I guess it’s a sort of collective writing). She is keeping all of this tightly under wraps in school, for fear of being ostracized even more that she is already, says these hobbies are way too weird for “normal” kids. The reasons she is an outcast – just doesn’t fit in with the regular crowd – not interested in fashion, clothing brands, makeup, doesn’t care how she dresses, not interested in partying, clubbing, gossip, boys (or girls! – as has been suggested by some of her classmates) and is athletic. She needs a school where she can find people like her in real life, not just in cyber world. One of her online friends is going to Reed, but for her, it’s too much rain, and they have no varsity sports, not even DIII. For me, it’s too much of a drugs scene. </p>

<p>Engineering schools are out of the question, for now (although I can see her at RPI, for example, in their game major). At one point she announced that she wants to be a game designer, no doubt attracted by visual art aspects of it, but after more discussions and realization of how technical that might be, whether she really wants to spend her life doing this, and whether this type of education will give her the best options for life, she reconsidered. Psychology and mental disorders are other interests and the current focus for college (along with art as second major or minor). Academically, she always excelled in English/writing and foreign languages, but is gradually becoming more science-y. Because she is only a freshman, she hasn’t been exposed to a lot yet, but I can see developing interest in biology (at least where it touches on behavioral sciences and genetics). </p>

<p>Size – it is one of my concerns that if she goes to a small LAC and can’t find her niche, it will be just like her high school, all over again. In the bigger place, there is more diversity. She is convinced that she’ll find her group in any college, but I’m not so sure, that’s why I’m unclear about what environment would be best for her. I don’t think she realizes how small a school with 1200 students is – it seems large to her, compared to her tiny HS! </p>

<p>Weather-wise – yes, she wants warmth, but rain is the biggest problem, as BunsenBurner mentioned. She grew up in the Northeast, and is willing to apply there. She knows there are a lot more LACs/small unis there than in CA. Minnesota will be a harder sell, despite Carleton and Macalester, which could both be a good fit.</p>