Looking Beyond the Rankings

<p>I dont know where sadilly is getting his/her statistics. Some of those schools have lower admit rates than is listed by a sizable margin.</p>

<p>I know that Fordham University in New York has a variable admit rate from year to year of between 43-47%, that 88-89 % of freshmen return for sophomore year, and that their five year graduation rate is 81-82%</p>

<p>Old IPeds stuff. Several yrs behind. UW has been in the low-mid 50% for admits for several years. 5 yr grad rate >80% for same.</p>

<p>The source is the Integrated Post-secondary Education Data System (IPEDS) from the National Center for Education Statistics which US News uses as a source when the school survey is missing information on “information on financial resources, faculty, SAT and ACT admissions test scores, acceptance rates and graduation and retention rates.”</p>

<p>US News has University of Wisconsin-Madison acceptance rate as 54.56%. According to IPEDS, the percentage of students admitted has been: </p>

<p>2009-10 59
2010-11 67
2011-12 66
2012-13 69</p>

<p>I can’t find an explicit difference in the definitions between the CDS and IPEDS that explains the differences. </p>

<p>US News has a five-year rate of 80% for the University of Wisconsin. IPEDS has 79%. The CDS survey form actually uses the IPEDS definition: </p>

<p>“For complete instructions and definitions of data elements, see the IPEDS GRS instructions
and glossary on the 2012 Web-based survey.”</p>

<p>As for Fordham, it’s not a 50-50 school because it accepts less than 50% of applicants. The point of this thread was to look at schools that accepts more students than it rejects while maintaining an acceptable graduation rate. About a quarter of the list changes each year basically because of fluctuations in acceptance rates. Just as an FYI, the following table lists all the schools currently with less than 50% acceptance rate but 50% or more graduation rate. </p>

<p>



Name                    State   Type    4/5 yr  % Admitted
                            Grad 
                            Rate
Albright College            PA  Private 52  47
American Musical and Dramatic Academy   NY  Private 100 43
American University         DC  Private 74  44
Amherst College             MA  Private 87  13
Babson College              MA  Private 87  29
Bard College                NY  Private 63  35
Barnard College             NY  Private 84  23
Bates College               ME  Private 88  27
Bentley University          MA  Private 80  45
Boston College              MA  Private 87  29
Bowdoin College             ME  Private 88  16
Brandeis University         MA  Private 88  39
Brown University            RI  Private 83  10
Bryn Mawr College           PA  Private 82  41
Bucknell University         PA  Private 87  27
California Institute of Technology  CA  Private 76  13
California Institute of the Arts    CA  Private 51  25
California Lutheran University      CA  Private 52  47
California Poly State U-San Luis Obispo CA  Public  67  37
Carleton College            MN  Private 88  26
Carnegie Mellon University      PA  Private 71  28
Chapman University          CA  Private 53  45
Claremont McKenna College       CA  Private 85  14
Colby College               ME  Private 86  29
Colgate University          NY  Private 88  29
College of the Holy Cross       MA  Private 89  34
College of William and Mary     VA  Public  90  32
Colorado College            CO  Private 83  23
Colorado School of Mines        CO  Public  65  45
Columbia University in the City of NY   NY  Private 85  7
Connecticut College         CT  Private 81  34
Cooper Union for the Adv of Sci and Art NY  Private 63  8
Cornell University          NY  Private 87  17
CUNY Bernard M Baruch College       NY  Public  57  22
Dartmouth College           NH  Private 88  10
Davidson College            NC  Private 87  25
Dickinson College           PA  Private 82  40
Duke University             NC  Private 89  14
Emerson College             MA  Private 80  48
Emory University            GA  Private 82  27
Fordham University          NY  Private 74  43
Franklin and Marshall College       PA  Private 81  39
George Washington University        DC  Private 76  33
Georgetown University           DC  Private 90  18
Gettysburg College          PA  Private 79  40
Gordon College              MA  Private 61  40
Grinnell College            IA  Private 83  32
Hamilton College            NY  Private 84  27
Harvard University          MA  Private 87  6
Harvey Mudd College         CA  Private 75  19
Haverford College           PA  Private 91  23
Johns Hopkins University        MD  Private 84  18
Kenyon College              OH  Private 83  36
Lafayette College           PA  Private 85  34
Lehigh University           PA  Private 78  33
Macalester College          MN  Private 82  37
Marist College              NY  Private 69  31
Massachusetts Institute of Technology   MA  Private 85  9
Middlebury College          VT  Private 84  18
Mount Holyoke College           MA  Private 80  42
Muhlenberg College          PA  Private 79  46
New York University         NY  Private 80  35
Northwestern University         IL  Private 86  18
Oberlin College             OH  Private 76  31
Occidental College          CA  Private 81  39
Pepperdine University           CA  Private 70  38
Pitzer College              CA  Private 75  16
Pomona College              CA  Private 91  13
Princeton University            NJ  Private 87  8
Ramapo College of New Jersey        NJ  Public  69  47
Reed College                OR  Private 59  36
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute    NY  Private 60  44
Rhode Island School of Design       RI  Private 75  25
Rice University             TX  Private 79  17
Robert Morris University Illinois   IL  Private 73  28
Roberts Wesleyan College        NY  Private 54  47
San Diego State University      CA  Public  57  33
San Diego State U-Imperial Valley   CA  Public  57  44
Scripps College             CA  Private 83  32
Simmons College             MA  Private 62  48
Skidmore College            NY  Private 82  42
Smith College               MA  Private 80  43
Spelman College             GA  Private 70  38
Spring Hill College         AL  Private 51  47
St Lawrence University          NY  Private 76  48
Stanford University         CA  Private 79  7
State University of New York New Paltz  NY  Public  67  40
Stony Brook University          NY  Public  64  40
SUNY at Binghamton          NY  Public  76  41
SUNY at Purchase College        NY  Public  54  33
SUNY College at Brockport       NY  Public  61  46
SUNY College at Cortland        NY  Public  65  44
SUNY College at Geneseo         NY  Public  80  43
SUNY College at Oneonta         NY  Public  66  44
SUNY College at Oswego          NY  Public  54  48
SUNY College at Plattsburgh     NY  Public  54  46
Swarthmore College          PA  Private 91  14
Texas Christian University      TX  Private 55  41
The Boston Conservatory         MA  Private 53  41
The College of New Jersey       NJ  Public  85  46
The Juilliard School            NY  Private 91  7
The University of Texas at Austin   TX  Public  77  47
Trinity College             CT  Private 82  34
Tufts University            MA  Private 85  21
Union College               NY  Private 78  38
United States Air Force Academy     CO  Public  83  10
United States Coast Guard Academy   CT  Public  83  16
United States Military Academy      NY  Public  82  9
United States Naval Academy     MD  Public  90  7
University of California-Berkeley   CA  Public  88  22
University of California-Davis      CA  Public  78  48
University of California-Irvine     CA  Public  83  47
University of California-Los Angeles    CA  Public  88  27
University of California-San Diego  CA  Public  81  35
University of California-Santa Barbara  CA  Public  78  46
University of Central Florida       FL  Public  57  46
University of Chicago           IL  Private 86  13
University of Connecticut       CT  Public  81  45
University of Connecticut-Stamford  CT  Public  52  45
University of Florida           FL  Public  80  44
University of Maryland-College Park MD  Public  80  47
University of Miami         FL  Private 66  40
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor    MI  Public  87  37
University of N Carolina Chapel Hill    NC  Public  86  33
University of N Carolina School of Arts NC  Public  56  42
University of Notre Dame        IN  Private 90  23
University of Pennsylvania      PA  Private 87  13
University of Richmond          VA  Private 77  30
University of Rochester         NY  Private 73  35
University of San Diego         CA  Private 64  43
University of Southern California   CA  Private 73  20
University of Tulsa         OK  Private 51  41
University of Virginia-Main Campus  VA  Public  93  30
Vanderbilt University           TN  Private 87  14
Vassar College              NY  Private 88  23
Villanova University            PA  Private 88  46
Virginia Military Institute     VA  Public  67  46
Wake Forest University          NC  Private 82  34
Washington & Jefferson College      PA  Private 70  41
Washington and Lee University       VA  Private 88  19
Washington University in St Louis   MO  Private 86  18
Wellesley College           MA  Private 86  30
Wesleyan University         CT  Private 87  24
Williams College            MA  Private 89  17
Yale University             CT  Private 89  8</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>UW published many stats annually on a comparable YTY basis. Those upper 60% numbers are just incorrect. </p>

<p><a href=“http://apir.wisc.edu/datadigest/201213Digest/digest_13_web.pdf[/url]”>http://apir.wisc.edu/datadigest/201213Digest/digest_13_web.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>IPEDS has been known to report incorrect data. The schools just never correct it which is why I tell people who use it, if something looks wrong, then check. </p>

<p>In this case, UW has their IPEDS data on the same website you linked to. The latest IPEDS report listed is 2009 and it matches what IPEDS is reporting. <a href=“http://apir.wisc.edu/ipeds/IPEDS%202010-11/IPEDS_Institutional_Characteristics_2010-11.pdf[/url]”>Academic Planning – Academic Planning and Institutional Research – UW–Madison. If you compare it to the CDS also available on their website <a href=“http://apir.wisc.edu/publisherssurvey/CDS_2010.pdf[/url]”>http://apir.wisc.edu/publisherssurvey/CDS_2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt; you’ll that the number of reported students admitted is almost identical</p>

<p>CDS
Total first-time, first-year (freshman) men who were admitted 6497
Total first-time, first-year (freshman) women who were admitted 7731</p>

<p>IPEDS
Admissions Men: 6,495 Women: 7,730 Total: 14,225</p>

<p>There are significant differences in the number of applicants reported. </p>

<p>CDS
Total first-time, first-year (freshman) men who applied 11923
Total first-time, first-year (freshman) women who applied 12932</p>

<p>IPEDS
Applicants Men: 10,198 Women: 11,192 Total: 21,390</p>

<p>I’m assuming the UW doesn’t agree with the way IPEDS counts applicants although I don’t know where the differences are coming from. If you look at the instructions for both, they look remarkably alike. </p>

<p>Other possibilities are that different people are completing the forms, someone just entered the data incorrectly, or for some reason they are pulled from two different data sets.</p>

<p>I really enjoy this thread. Thank you for all your work on it!</p>

<p>This week info on African American students. 4 year grad rate for private schools, 5 year for public.</p>

<p>50-50 Schools with highest percentage of African American students</p>

<p>



Name                State   Type    4/5 yr  %   6 yr    6 yr Graduation Rate
                        Grad    African  Grad-
                        Rate    Amer    African 
                                American
Agnes Scott College     GA  Private 58  34  58  65
College of Saint Elizabeth  NJ  Private 50  31  47  58
Winthrop University     SC  Public  55  29  60  58
Guilford College        NC  Private 55  24  50  60
Mississippi State University    MS  Public  54  23  42  60
Keiser University-Ft Lauderdale FL  Private 60  22  52  62
Salem College           NC  Private 52  20  52  53
Eastern University      PA  Private 59  20  43  67
Rutgers University-Newark   NJ  Public  61  18  69  68
Rutgers University-Camden   NJ  Public  50  17  63  61
Dean College            MA  Private 62  17  44  62
Univ of Maryland-Baltimore Cty  MD  Public  50  17  64  57
University of Mississippi   MS  Public  56  17  44  60
Indiana Wesleyan University IN  Private 56  16  62  70
Northern Illinois University    IL  Public  50  16  35  56
Queens University of Charlotte  NC  Private 50  16  52  61
Chatham University      PA  Private 49  15  54  60
Eastern Illinois University IL  Public  54  15  40  59
East Carolina University    NC  Public  54  15  53  59
Western Illinois University IL  Public  49  14  44  53
Seton Hall University       NJ  Private 52  14  53  66
Pennsylvania State Uni Hazleton PA  Public  49  14  30  52
Towson University       MD  Public  60  14  55  64
La Salle University     PA  Private 53  14  51  67
Temple University       PA  Public  63  13  62  68
Randolph-Macon College      VA  Private 53  13  74  60
McDaniel College        MD  Private 70  13  74  74
Univ of Illinois at Springfield IL  Public  60  13  57  61
The Sage Colleges       NY  Private 49  13  44  58
Stephens College        MO  Private 50  13  50  55
Hood College            MD  Private 60  12  61  68
Hiram College           OH  Private 60  12  65  66
The University of Alabama   AL  Public  61  12  59  66
Millikin University     IL  Private 54  12  44  65
SUNY at Albany          NY  Public  63  12  69  64
Bowling Green State University  OH  Public  55  12  50  58
Bay Path College        MA  Private 58  11  60  65
Manhattanville College      NY  Private 52  11  44  56
Converse College        SC  Private 58  11  60  60
Union University        TN  Private 50  11  57  61
Hollins University      VA  Private 58  11  60  63
Southwestern College        KS  Private 49  11  46  57
Univ of South Carolina-Columbia SC  Public  67  10  65  70
Adelphi University      NY  Private 55  10  55  66
Indiana Univ of Pennsylvania    PA  Public  49  10  40  52
Mount St Mary's University  MD  Private 72  10  70  76
Salisbury University        MD  Public  63  10  60  67
Penn State Univ Harrisburg  PA  Public  58  10  58  63
Western Michigan University MI  Public  49  10  44  56
Presbyterian College        SC  Private 61  10  82  68
Louisiana State University  LA  Public  54  10  54  60


50-50 Schools with highest 6 year graduation rate for African American Students



Name                State   Type    4/5 yr  %   6 yr    6 yr Graduation Rate
                        Grad    African  Grad-
                        Rate    Amer    African 
                                American
Hanover College         IN  Private 69  5   100 71
Knox College            IL  Private 70  6   100 78
Marywood University     PA  Private 51  1   100 62
Saint Mary's College        IN  Private 73  2   100 79
Saint Michael's College     VT  Private 77  1   100 82
SUNY College of Env Science NY  Public  65  1   100 66
The Master's College/Seminary   CA  Private 55  3   100 65
University of Dallas        TX  Private 63  1   100 73
Gonzaga University      WA  Private 69  1   90  83
Sarah Lawrence College      NY  Private 63  3   90  70
Sewanee-The Univ of the South   TN  Private 80  4   90  86
Whitman College         WA  Private 80  2   90  86
Clark University        MA  Private 76  4   89  80
Gustavus Adolphus College   MN  Private 80  3   89  82
Trinity University      TX  Private 69  3   89  80
Providence College      RI  Private 81  4   88  85
Wheaton College         IL  Private 73  3   87  87
Whitworth University        WA  Private 67  1   86  80
Bryant University       RI  Private 75  4   85  77
Loyola University Maryland  MD  Private 79  4   83  83
Merrimack College       MA  Private 63  3   83  70
University of Puget Sound   WA  Private 67  2   83  73
Goucher College         MD  Private 62  9   82  70
St Olaf College         MN  Private 81  2   82  85
Presbyterian College        SC  Private 61  10  82  68
Boston University       MA  Private 65  3   81  85
Furman University       SC  Private 83  5   81  87
Hope College            MI  Private 69  2   81  79
Centre College          KY  Private 81  4   80  82
Denison University      OH  Private 76  7   80  79
Lewis & Clark College       OR  Private 66  2   80  73
Seattle University      WA  Private 57  4   80  71
St Mary's College of Maryland   MD  Public  77  8   80  79
DePauw University       IN  Private 80  8   79  85
University of Georgia       GA  Public  79  7   79  82
Cedarville University       OH  Private 56  2   78  68
Elon University         NC  Private 78  7   78  82
Pacific Lutheran University WA  Private 49  3   78  66
James Madison University    VA  Public  80  4   77  81
Kalamazoo College       MI  Private 76  4   77  80
University of Redlands      CA  Private 56  2   77  70
Ithaca College          NY  Private 67  4   76  74
Loyola Marymount University CA  Private 67  6   76  77
Belmont University      TN  Private 61  4   75  68
Linfield College        OR  Private 61  2   75  73
Saint Anselm College        NH  Private 72  2   75  73
Saint Norbert College       WI  Private 65  1   75  70
Seattle Pacific University  WA  Private 60  3   75  74


</p>

<p>This week is colleges with highest yield rates. It’s not that I think this is particulalry useful information but just a way to see schools you may not have heard of before. The following are 50-50 schools that have a 35% or higher yield rate. Five-year graduation rate for public schools and four-year rate for private schools. </p>

<p>



Name    State   Type    4 yr Graduation Rate    % Enrolled-Full-time Total
Grove City College      PA  Private 77  54
Goshen College          IN  Private 58  45
Wheaton College         IL  Private 79  44
Calvin College          MI  Private 60  39
Houghton College        NY  Private 56  39
Saint Johns University      MN  Private 73  38
St Olaf College         MN  Private 81  36
Concordia College at Moorhead   MN  Private 62  35
Martin Luther College       MN  Private 53  82
Bryan College-Dayton        TN  Private 50  45
Vanguard Univ of S California   CA  Private 52  43
Mount Mercy University      IA  Private 49  43
Milligan College        TN  Private 57  42
The Master's Coll and Seminary  CA  Private 55  42
John Brown University       AR  Private 55  42
Dordt College           IA  Private 56  40
Asbury University       KY  Private 61  40
Augustana College       SD  Private 49  38
Messiah College         PA  Private 71  35
Keiser University-Ft Lauderdale FL  Private 60  57
Maryville Univ of Saint Louis   MO  Private 57  38
Biola University        CA  Private 50  35
Indiana Wesleyan University IN  Private 56  46
Eastern University      PA  Private 59  38
Belmont University      TN  Private 61  37
Saint Francis University    PA  Private 52  36
Saint Joseph's College of Maine ME  Private 49  83
Bethel University       TN  Private 12  51
Southwestern College        KS  Private 49  50
Walsh University        OH  Private 49  39
Misericordia University     PA  Private 56  35
Columbia International Univ SC  Private 50  51
Mount Carmel Coll of Nursing    OH  Private 62  63
Columbus College Art and Design OH  Private 56  54
Milwaukee Inst of Art & Design  WI  Private 53  44
Minneapolis Coll Art and Design MN  Private 70  41
The University of the Arts  PA  Private 55  37
Johnson University      TN  Private 49  71
Moody Bible Institute       IL  Private 55  46




Name    State   Type    5 yr Graduation Rate    % Enrolled-Full-time Total
Univ of New Hampshire at Manchester NH  Public  50  70
University of Nebraska-Lincoln      NE  Public  61  59
University of Pittsburgh-Johnstown  PA  Public  56  52
California University of Pennsylvania   PA  Public  49  51
Georgia College & State University  GA  Public  51  50
University of Northern Iowa     IA  Public  62  50
Massachusetts Maritime Academy      MA  Public  61  49
University of Georgia           GA  Public  79  49
South Dakota State University       SD  Public  54  49
University of Nebraska at Kearney   NE  Public  52  47
Louisiana State University Agri & Meche LA  Public  54  45
The University of Alabama       AL  Public  61  45
Ohio State University-Main Campus   OH  Public  75  44
Mississippi State University        MS  Public  54  44
Missouri University of Science/Tech MO  Public  61  44
North Carolina State Univ at Raleigh    NC  Public  67  44
Oklahoma State University-Main Campus   OK  Public  57  44
University of Oklahoma Norman Campus    OK  Public  61  44
Maine Maritime Academy          ME  Public  66  43
The University of Tennessee     TN  Public  58  43
University of Arkansas          AR  Public  54  43
East Carolina University        NC  Public  54  42
Murray State University         KY  Public  50  42
Pennsylvania State University-Dubois    PA  Public  55  42
University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point   WI  Public  55  42
Missouri State University-Springfield   MO  Public  50  41
Pennsylvania State University-Hazleton  PA  Public  49  41
The University of Texas at Dallas   TX  Public  57  41
University of Wisconsin-Madison     WI  Public  79  40
University of Washington-Seattle Campus WA  Public  76  40
Iowa State University           IA  Public  63  40
Kansas State University         KS  Public  49  40
SUNY College of Env Science/Forestry    NY  Public  65  40
University of Wisconsin-La Crosse   WI  Public  63  40
Central Washington University       WA  Public  49  39
Indiana University of Pennsylvania  PA  Public  49  39
Pennsylvania State University-Behrende  PA  Public  63  39
Rowan University            NJ  Public  67  39
Slippery Rock Univ of Pennsylvania  PA  Public  57  39
Texas A & M University-College Station  TX  Public  77  39
Virginia Tech               VA  Public  79  39
Texas Tech University           TX  Public  56  39
Michigan State University       MI  Public  73  39
University of Kentucky          KY  Public  55  39
University of Mississippi       MS  Public  56  39
University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire  WI  Public  59  39
University of Wisconsin-Green Bay   WI  Public  50  39
Winona State University         MN  Public  50  39
SUNY College of Technology at Alfred    NY  Public  67  38
Truman State University         MO  Public  64  38
University of Kansas            KS  Public  55  38
University of Missouri-Columbia     MO  Public  66  38
Washington State University     WA  Public  62  38
Appalachian State University        NC  Public  61  37
Georgia Institute of Technology     GA  Public  72  37
Massachusetts College of Art and Design MA  Public  63  37
Pennsylvania State University-Berks PA  Public  50  37
West Virginia University        WV  Public  52  37
Winthrop University         SC  Public  55  37
University of Arizona           AZ  Public  57  36
University of Cincinnati-Main Campus    OH  Public  52  36
University of Minnesota-Duluth      MN  Public  49  36
University of North Carolina Wilmington NC  Public  64  36
University of Pittsburgh-Greensburg PA  Public  49  36
Univ of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign    IL  Public  81  35
Oregon State University         OR  Public  55  35
Rutgers University-New Brunswick    NJ  Public  71  35
Florida State University        FL  Public  71  35


</p>

<p>I haven’t thought about undergraduate to career center staff ratio, I’ll have to look for that. Given how little time my son actually spends in the library, I suspect a Starbucks to undergraduate ratio would be or more interest.</p>

<p>There are lies and damned lies…er…statistics. Enough already with the attempts at promoting elitism. </p>

<p>The focus of EVERY college applicant ought to be what best suits them, where they will thrive and grow as a person, to become a productive tax paying adult and successful (as in their soul, not their purse or wallet) human being. </p>

<p>Whether that is a highly ranked school using whatever matrix you concoct is utterly irrelevant. Its in fact superficial.</p>

<p>

Perhaps you should read through the thread sovereigndebt. This thread is about Looking BEYOND the Rankings as the title states. It showcases schools that accept >50% of applicants and graduate >50% of students on time, meaning less selective schools that can follow through.</p>

<p>sadilly has put forth a tremendous amount of time and effort on this thread. It is to be commended!</p>

<p>This week’s 50-50 schools had a decrease in the average net price after gift aid based on the last two available years from IPEDS 2010-11 to 2011-12. The five year rate is used for public schools and the four year rate for private schools. </p>

<p>Just a reminder why I’m posting these lists, they’re just a way to find out about other schools. Some of these schools may be great alternatives for some families but not others. Some offer great financial aid, others don’t. The goal is to show alternative schools that would accept more students than they reject while having a decent chance of graduating. </p>

<p>I know some people object to using “old” IPEDs data. While it may lag behind the common data set in some areas, I’ve found that in terms of comparing schools to each other, there really isn’t that big of change from year to year with the exception of acceptance rates. Schools with rates between 40% to 60% seem to have the biggest jumps from year to year. As for quality of the data, I hope that the issues that came up with UW Madison show that all data you use at your own risk. There are always limitations/exceptions when using this data.</p>

<p>



Name                State   Type    4/5 yr  Change in 
                        Grad    Net Price 
                        Rate    2010 to 2011
Montclair State University  NJ  Public  57  -2754
Augustana College       IL  Private 70  -2668
Drew University         NJ  Private 61  -2637
Saint Vincent College       PA  Private 64  -2595
John Brown University       AR  Private 55  -2539
Michigan State University   MI  Public  73  -2356
Dean College            MA  Private 62  -2268
Assumption College      MA  Private 65  -1880
Sweet Briar College     VA  Private 64  -1820
Saint Mary's Univ of Minnesota  MN  Private 51  -1639
Loyola Marymount University CA  Private 67  -1602
Clark University        MA  Private 76  -1537
Capital University      OH  Private 52  -1530
Hollins University      VA  Private 58  -1381
Johnson University      TN  Private 49  -1374
Susquehanna University      PA  Private 75  -1276
Cabrini College         PA  Private 49  -1223
Clemson University      SC  Public  78  -1143
Taylor University       IN  Private 75  -1115
Lake Forest College     IL  Private 59  -1114
Murray State University     KY  Public  50  -1019
Mount Carmel College of Nursing OH  Private 62  -1016
Bluffton University     OH  Private 54  -1003
Lycoming College        PA  Private 61  -975
Sonoma State University     CA  Public  51  -948
Wheaton College         MA  Private 79  -939
Georgia Institute of Technology GA  Public  72  -862
Willamette University       OR  Private 70  -861
Birmingham Southern College AL  Private 53  -818
Houghton College        NY  Private 56  -812
University of Redlands      CA  Private 56  -743
Merrimack College       MA  Private 63  -728
Whitman College         WA  Private 80  -701
Washington College      MD  Private 72  -694
Dominican University        IL  Private 55  -688
Chatham University      PA  Private 49  -669
The College of Wooster      OH  Private 68  -654
Canisius College        NY  Private 55  -632
SUNY at Fredonia        NY  Public  60  -610
Western New England University  MA  Private 52  -587
Huntington University       IN  Private 50  -554
Ouachita Baptist University AR  Private 50  -552
Pacific Lutheran University WA  Private 49  -533
John Carroll University     OH  Private 64  -528
University of Minnesota-Duluth  MN  Public  49  -521
Baldwin Wallace University  OH  Private 52  -520
University of Arizona       AZ  Public  57  -500
Cornell College         IA  Private 65  -499
Endicott College        MA  Private 62  -480
Allegheny College       PA  Private 76  -478
Bridgewater College     VA  Private 52  -470
University of Mississippi   MS  Public  56  -438
Azusa Pacific University    CA  Private 50  -431
Texas Tech University       TX  Public  56  -424
Milwaukee Inst of Art & Design  WI  Private 53  -423
The Univ of Texas at Dallas TX  Public  57  -404
University of Kentucky      KY  Public  55  -392
Linfield College-McMinnville    OR  Private 61  -360
Columbus Coll of Art and Design OH  Private 56  -357
Columbia International Univ SC  Private 50  -356
University of Rhode Island  RI  Public  59  -348
McDaniel College        MD  Private 70  -321
Wagner College          NY  Private 61  -320
Univ of Massachusetts Amherst   MA  Public  65  -315
The University of Alabama   AL  Public  61  -313
Slippery Rock Univ of Penns PA  Public  57  -287
Knox College            IL  Private 70  -286
University of Maine     ME  Public  55  -284
Randolph-Macon College      VA  Private 53  -283
Biola University        CA  Private 50  -275
Ursinus College         PA  Private 75  -264
Texas A & M University      TX  Public  77  -258
Earlham College         IN  Private 59  -256
SUNY at Albany          NY  Public  63  -251
Lewis & Clark College       OR  Private 66  -174
The Sage Colleges       NY  Private 49  -136
Hendrix College         AR  Private 64  -108
Rhodes College          TN  Private 71  -99
Xavier University       OH  Private 69  -94
Miami University-Oxford     OH  Public  80  -93
Saint Michael's College     VT  Private 77  -91
Georgetown College      KY  Private 50  -83
Kalamazoo College       MI  Private 76  -72
Eastern Mennonite University    VA  Private 57  -67
Univ of California-Riverside    CA  Public  62  -58
SUNY Coll of Technology  Alfred NY  Public  67  -57
Agnes Scott College     GA  Private 58  -41
Saint Joseph's University   PA  Private 71  -38
Illinois State University   IL  Public  68  -35
University of Minnesota-Morris  MN  Public  59  -14
The University of Tennessee TN  Public  58  -10


</p>

<p>This week I look at religious affiliation. How strong of an affiliation will vary from school to school. There are plenty of schools on these lists that most people wouldn’t realize have any affiliation. I’ve separated Catholic schools from non-Catholic just to make the lists more manageable. </p>

<p>



Name                State   4 yr Graduation Rate    Religious Affiliation
Linfield College-McMinnville    OR  61  American Baptist
Eastern University      PA  59  American Baptist
Vanguard Univ of Southern Cal   CA  52  Assemblies of God Church
Cedarville University       OH  56  Baptist
Baylor University       TX  52  Baptist
Samford University      AL  51  Baptist
Georgetown College      KY  50  Baptist
Transylvania University     KY  66  Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Milligan College        TN  57  Christian Churches and Churches of Christ
Johnson University      TN  49  Christian Churches and Churches of Christ
Calvin College          MI  60  Christian Reformed Church
Dordt College           IA  56  Christian Reformed Church
Elizabethtown College       PA  71  Church of Brethren
Bridgewater College     VA  52  Church of Brethren
Point Loma Nazarene University  CA  62  Church of the Nazarene
St Olaf College         MN  81  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Gustavus Adolphus College   MN  80  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Susquehanna University      PA  75  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Augustana College       IL  70  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Concordia College at Moorhead   MN  62  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Roanoke College         VA  59  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Wartburg College        IA  59  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Luther College          IA  58  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Capital University      OH  52  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Augustana College       SD  49  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Pacific Lutheran University WA  49  Evangelical Lutheran Church
Seattle Pacific University  WA  60  Free Methodist
Earlham College         IN  59  Friends
Guilford College        NC  55  Friends
George Fox University       OR  52  Friends
Taylor University       IN  75  Interdenominational
Messiah College         PA  71  Interdenominational
Belmont University      TN  61  Interdenominational
Moody Bible Institute       IL  55  Interdenominational
The Master's College & Seminary CA  55  Interdenominational
Trinity Christian College   IL  55  Interdenominational
Bryan College-Dayton        TN  50  Interdenominational
Wittenberg University       OH  66  Lutheran Church in America
Valparaiso University       IN  63  Lutheran Church in America
Wagner College          NY  61  Lutheran Church in America
Goshen College          IN  58  Mennonite Church
Eastern Mennonite University    VA  57  Mennonite Church
Bluffton University     OH  54  Mennonite Church
Moravian College and Seminary   PA  73  Moravian Church
Salem College           NC  52  Moravian Church
Centre College          KY  81  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Grove City College      PA  77  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Rhodes College          TN  71  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Austin College          TX  69  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Hanover College         IN  69  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Trinity University      TX  69  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Whitworth University        WA  67  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Westminster College     PA  62  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Coe College         IA  61  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Presbyterian College        SC  61  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Agnes Scott College     GA  58  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Eckerd College          FL  55  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Alma College            MI  54  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Arcadia University      PA  54  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Millikin University     IL  54  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Queens University of Charlotte  NC  50  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Waynesburg University       PA  50  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Westminster College     MO  50  Presbyterian Church (USA)
Sewanee-The Univ of the South   TN  80  Protestant Episcopal
Hope College            MI  69  Reformed Church in America
Central College         IA  58  Reformed Church in America
Geneva College          PA  58  Reformed Presbyterian Church
Ouachita Baptist University AR  50  Southern Baptist
Union University        TN  50  Southern Baptist
Wheaton College         IL  79  Undenominational
Azusa Pacific University    CA  50  Undenominational
Biola University        CA  50  Undenominational
Huntington University       IN  50  United Brethren Church
Elmhurst College        IL  54  United Church of Christ
DePauw University       IN  80  United Methodist
Allegheny College       PA  76  United Methodist
Wofford College         SC  75  United Methodist
Lebanon Valley College      PA  67  United Methodist
Albion College          MI  65  United Methodist
Cornell College         IA  65  United Methodist
Hendrix College         AR  64  United Methodist
Randolph College        VA  63  United Methodist
Simpson College         IA  63  United Methodist
Drew University         NJ  61  United Methodist
Lycoming College        PA  61  United Methodist
Millsaps College        MS  61  United Methodist
Southern Methodist University   TX  60  United Methodist
Hamline University      MN  59  United Methodist
Nebraska Wesleyan University    NE  58  United Methodist
Southwestern University     TX  57  United Methodist
University of Mount Union   OH  54  United Methodist
Birmingham Southern College AL  53  United Methodist
High Point University       NC  53  United Methodist
Ohio Wesleyan University    OH  53  United Methodist
Randolph-Macon College      VA  53  United Methodist
Baldwin Wallace University  OH  52  United Methodist
Emory & Henry College       VA  52  United Methodist
Ohio Northern University    OH  52  United Methodist
North Central College       IL  50  United Methodist
University of Evansville    IN  50  United Methodist
Otterbein University        OH  49  United Methodist
Southwestern College        KS  49  United Methodist
Houghton College        NY  56  Wesleyan
Indiana Wesleyan University IN  56  Wesleyan
Martin Luther College       MN  53  Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod




Name                State   4 yr Graduation Rate    Religion 
Providence College      RI  81  Roman Catholic
Fairfield University        CT  79  Roman Catholic
Loyola University Maryland  MD  79  Roman Catholic
Stonehill College       MA  78  Roman Catholic
Saint Michael's College     VT  77  Roman Catholic
Santa Clara University      CA  77  Roman Catholic
Saint Johns University      MN  73  Roman Catholic
Saint Mary's College        IN  73  Roman Catholic
College of Saint Benedict   MN  72  Roman Catholic
Mount St Mary's University  MD  72  Roman Catholic
Saint Anselm College        NH  72  Roman Catholic
Saint Joseph's University   PA  71  Roman Catholic
University of Portland      OR  71  Roman Catholic
Siena College           NY  70  Roman Catholic
DeSales University      PA  69  Roman Catholic
Gonzaga University      WA  69  Roman Catholic
Xavier University       OH  69  Roman Catholic
Salve Regina University     RI  68  Roman Catholic
Loyola Marymount University CA  67  Roman Catholic
Creighton University        NE  66  Roman Catholic
Assumption College      MA  65  Roman Catholic
Saint Norbert College       WI  65  Roman Catholic
University of Scranton      PA  65  Roman Catholic
John Carroll University     OH  64  Roman Catholic
Rockhurst University        MO  64  Roman Catholic
Saint John Fisher College   NY  64  Roman Catholic
Saint Vincent College       PA  64  Roman Catholic
Merrimack College       MA  63  Roman Catholic
University of Dallas        TX  63  Roman Catholic
Franciscan Univ of Steubenville OH  62  Roman Catholic
Le Moyne College        NY  62  Roman Catholic
Mount Carmel College of Nursing OH  62  Roman Catholic
Catholic University of America  DC  61  Roman Catholic
Duquesne University     PA  61  Roman Catholic
Marquette University        WI  61  Roman Catholic
Sacred Heart University     CT  61  Roman Catholic
University of St Thomas     MN  61  Roman Catholic
Niagara University      NY  60  Roman Catholic
King's College          PA  59  Roman Catholic
Mercyhurst University       PA  59  Roman Catholic
University of Dayton        OH  58  Roman Catholic
University of San Francisco CA  58  Roman Catholic
Seattle University      WA  57  Roman Catholic
Misericordia University     PA  56  Roman Catholic
Regis College           MA  56  Roman Catholic
Canisius College        NY  55  Roman Catholic
Dominican University        IL  55  Roman Catholic
Emmanuel College        MA  54  Roman Catholic
The Coll of Saint Scholastica   MN  54  Roman Catholic
La Salle University     PA  53  Roman Catholic
Saint Edward's University   TX  52  Roman Catholic
Saint Francis University    PA  52  Roman Catholic
Seton Hall University       NJ  52  Roman Catholic
Bellarmine University       KY  51  Roman Catholic
Gannon University       PA  51  Roman Catholic
Loyola University Chicago   IL  51  Roman Catholic
Marywood University     PA  51  Roman Catholic
Saint Mary's Univ of Minnesota  MN  51  Roman Catholic
College of Saint Elizabeth  NJ  50  Roman Catholic
Saint Marys College of Cal  CA  50  Roman Catholic
St. Bonaventure University  NY  50  Roman Catholic
Cabrini College         PA  49  Roman Catholic
Clarke University       IA  49  Roman Catholic
DePaul University       IL  49  Roman Catholic
Mount Mercy University      IA  49  Roman Catholic
Saint Ambrose University    IA  49  Roman Catholic
Saint Joseph's College of Maine ME  49  Roman Catholic
Walsh University        OH  49  Roman Catholic


</p>

<p>For this week I have 50-50 schools where at least 15% of freshman have non-federal loans. These are only loans for the students, it doesn’t include PLUS loans parents may have taken out. The four-year graduation rate is used for private schools, the five-year for private schools.</p>

<p>



Name                State   Type    4/5 yr  % Freshman  Avg Amount 
                        Grad    Receiving   of Non-Federal 
                        Rate    Non-Fed     Student Loans 
                            Student     for Freshman
                            Loans
University of St Thomas     MN  Private 61  64  2934
University of Redlands      CA  Private 56  63  3907
Wabash College          IN  Private 68  54  5675
Wittenberg University       OH  Private 66  52  2627
Mass Coll of Pharm & Health Sci MA  Private 55  47  13349
Westmont College        CA  Private 75  45  3338
The University of Alabama   AL  Public  61  41  5072
Cabrini College         PA  Private 49  40  15215
Dordt College           IA  Private 56  39  3904
Grove City College      PA  Private 77  38  8751
Maine Maritime Academy      ME  Public  66  31  12006
Winona State University     MN  Public  50  31  7852
Loyola University Maryland  MD  Private 79  31  3629
Juniata College         PA  Private 72  31  3539
Loyola Marymount University CA  Private 67  30  3549
The Coll of Saint Scholastica   MN  Private 54  26  10408
Whittier College        CA  Private 50  26  6003
Saint Edward's University   TX  Private 52  25  9485
Merrimack College       MA  Private 63  24  13951
Dean College            MA  Private 62  23  10158
Columbia International Uni  SC  Private 50  23  7911
Albany Coll of Pharm & Health   NY  Private 68  22  16348
University of New England   ME  Private 51  22  14220
Randolph College        VA  Private 63  22  9516
Trinity University      TX  Private 69  22  4868
Indiana Wesleyan University IN  Private 56  22  3781
Marywood University     PA  Private 51  21  12767
College of Saint Benedict   MN  Private 72  21  10983
Keene State College     NH  Public  56  21  6763
Guilford College        NC  Private 55  21  5171
Arcadia University      PA  Private 54  20  13931
Worcester Polytechnic Institute MA  Private 65  20  13580
Rich Stockton Coll New Jersey   NJ  Public  61  20  12615
Clarke University       IA  Private 49  20  10042
Saint Ambrose University    IA  Private 49  20  7521
Seton Hall University       NJ  Private 52  19  17661
Massachusetts Maritime Academy  MA  Public  61  19  13701
Concordia College at Moorhead   MN  Private 62  18  10682
Saint Johns University      MN  Private 73  18  10266
Salem College           NC  Private 52  18  9424
Westminster College     PA  Private 62  18  8437
Saint Francis University    PA  Private 52  17  14062
Austin College          TX  Private 69  17  8817
Illinois Wesleyan University    IL  Private 77  17  5452
Endicott College        MA  Private 62  16  16277
Salve Regina University     RI  Private 68  16  13097
DeSales University      PA  Private 69  15  14627
Saint Joseph's College of Maine ME  Private 49  15  13221
Augustana College       SD  Private 49  15  9496
University of Maine     ME  Public  55  15  9384
Gustavus Adolphus College   MN  Private 80  15  8740
Case Western Reserve University OH  Private 60  15  7442
North Central College       IL  Private 50  15  4915
Coe College         IA  Private 61  15  4469


</p>

<p>Thank you so much for researching and maintaining these lists. I read them every week!</p>

<p>This time I’m listing the top 40 [50-50</a> schools](<a href=“http://diycollegerankings.com/50-50-college-listing-intro/]50-50”>50-50 College List) by science majors. The number of biology majors seems to have the most influence of schools in the top 40. </p>

<p>



Name                State   Type    Full    4/5 yr  %   %   %   All     % Science
                        -time   Grad    Bio Math    Phys    Sci
                        Under-  Rate            Sci
                        grad
SUNY Coll of Env Sci & Forestry NY  Public  1628    65  36.8    0.0 4.1 150 40.9
University of New England   ME  Private 2166    51  31.2    0.2 0.2 136 31.7
St Olaf College         MN  Private 3113    81  12.1    8.7 10.4    320 31.1
Millsaps College        MS  Private 889 61  20.5    2.2 6.3 65  29.0
Allegheny College       PA  Private 2086    76  21.6    2.5 4.0 148 28.0
University of California-Merced CA  Public  4901    52  20.7    2.1 4.4 181 27.2
Earlham College         IN  Private 1049    59  16.5    3.2 6.7 75  26.4
Hendrix College         AR  Private 1402    64  18.6    0.9 6.8 85  26.3
Kalamazoo College       MI  Private 1363    76  13.4    3.7 9.2 100 26.2
The College of Wooster      OH  Private 1982    68  13.1    5.2 7.7 115 26.0
Ursinus College         PA  Private 1743    75  20.0    3.3 2.6 149 25.9
Whitman College         WA  Private 1566    80  13.4    2.9 8.8 114 25.1
Juniata College         PA  Private 1530    72  15.6    1.9 7.4 94  24.9
Wabash College          IN  Private 908 68  11.3    5.4 6.9 48  23.6
Rhodes College          TN  Private 1816    71  12.9    1.9 8.1 96  23.0
Albion College          MI  Private 1492    65  12.7    0.4 9.3 101 22.4
Presbyterian College        SC  Private 1167    61  13.4    5.0 3.8 58  22.2
University of Minnesota-Morris  MN  Public  1789    59  11.5    4.8 5.3 94  21.7
Gustavus Adolphus College   MN  Private 2486    80  12.4    2.9 6.3 134 21.6
Augustana College       IL  Private 2504    70  18.1    2.1 1.5 147 21.6
Wofford College         SC  Private 1549    75  13.8    3.8 3.8 84  21.5
St Mary's College of Maryland   MD  Public  1901    77  13.5    4.0 3.3 108 20.8
Saint Vincent College       PA  Private 1625    64  8.5 7.5 4.7 80  20.7
Alma College            MI  Private 1379    54  10.9    5.2 4.4 75  20.4
Case Western Reserve University OH  Private 3895    60  12.2    1.4 6.8 222 20.4
Lawrence University     WI  Private 1443    60  12.8    2.8 4.6 87  20.2
Wartburg College        IA  Private 1735    59  14.0    2.6 2.8 89  19.5
Westminster College     MO  Private 1102    50  16.5    2.0 0.8 48  19.4
Sweet Briar College     VA  Private 719 64  13.5    4.1 1.8 33  19.3
Saint Johns University      MN  Private 1856    73  11.3    3.5 4.4 87  19.3
Cornell College         IA  Private 1185    65  9.8 3.9 5.3 68  19.1
Centre College          KY  Private 1309    81  9.7 4.9 4.3 66  18.9
Birmingham Southern College AL  Private 1295    53  10.5    4.1 4.1 64  18.7
Univ of Maryland-Baltimore Coun MD  Public  9051    50  13.6    2.8 1.7 387 18.1
Bridgewater College     VA  Private 1637    52  12.7    2.3 2.9 69  17.9
Grove City College      PA  Private 2434    77  11.3    4.9 1.7 117 17.9
Univ of California-Santa Cruz   CA  Public  15504   70  12.4    1.7 3.6 824 17.7
University of Puget Sound   WA  Private 2620    67  11.1    3.6 2.8 123 17.5
Univ of Washington-Seattle  WA  Public  25876   76  10.7    3.4 3.2 1517    17.3
Univ of Pittsburgh-Greensburg   PA  Public  1692    49  12.4    3.1 1.7 50  17.2




Name                State   Type    Full    4/5 yr  %   %   %   All     % Science
                        -time   Grad    Bio Math    Phys    Sci
                        Under-  Rate            Sci
                        grad
Univ of Washington-Seattle  WA  Public  25876   76  10.7    3.4 3.2 1517    17.3
Univ of Wisconsin-Madison   WI  Public  27737   79  11.6    2.2 1.9 1291    15.7
Univ of Minnesota-Twin Cities   MN  Public  29194   67  8.9 2.3 2.3 1123    13.6
Michigan State Univ     MI  Public  33294   73  10.2    1.1 1.7 1064    12.9
Pennsylvania State Univ     PA  Public  37727   84  5.1 1.2 2.8 1002    9.1
Arizona State Univ      AZ  Public  50484   52  6.0 0.9 0.6 989 7.5
Univ of Colorado Boulder    CO  Public  24268   63  11.0    1.6 2.4 986 15.0
Texas A & M Univ        TX  Public  36515   77  7.9 0.9 1.6 971 10.4
Ohio State Univ-Main Campus OH  Public  39234   75  6.1 1.0 1.1 969 8.3
Univ of Illinois Urbana-Champ   IL  Public  31311   81  6.7 1.9 2.7 939 11.4
Rutgers Univ-New Brunswick  NJ  Public  29752   71  9.1 1.4 1.7 839 12.3
Univ of Arizona         AZ  Public  27356   57  8.7 1.5 2.1 832 12.2
Univ of California-Santa Cruz   CA  Public  15504   70  12.4    1.7 3.6 824 17.7
N Carolina St Univ at Raleigh   NC  Public  22069   67  10.4    2.2 2.2 815 14.9
Univ of Georgia         GA  Public  24694   79  8.4 0.7 1.2 753 10.3
Virginia Tech Univ      VA  Public  23176   79  8.8 1.9 1.8 750 12.4
Indiana Univ-Bloomington    IN  Public  31093   68  6.8 1.0 1.4 727 9.2
Univ of California-Riverside    CA  Public  18028   62  13.1    1.9 1.8 704 16.8
Univ of Massachusetts Amherst   MA  Public  20253   65  8.8 1.8 1.7 682 12.3
Univ at Buffalo         NY  Public  17664   67  8.5 1.7 2.8 629 13.0
Univ of Illinois at Chicago IL  Public  15532   49  12.4    1.2 1.8 604 15.3
Univ of South Carolina-Columbia SC  Public  20700   67  9.1 1.0 1.4 603 11.5
Univ of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh   PA  Public  17186   76  6.9 2.0 3.1 595 12.0
Purdue Univ-Main Campus     IN  Public  29998   63  3.4 2.4 2.3 574 8.0
Florida State Univ      FL  Public  28864   71  4.0 0.6 1.2 518 5.7
Colorado St Univ-Fort Collins   CO  Public  20089   59  8.3 1.0 1.3 510 10.6
SUNY at Albany          NY  Public  11925   63  9.7 3.1 2.0 494 14.8
Louisiana State Univ Ag&Mech    LA  Public  22277   54  7.8 1.1 1.3 473 10.2
Iowa State Univ         IA  Public  23103   63  5.5 1.5 1.4 450 8.4
Univ of Missouri-Columbia   MO  Public  24413   66  5.8 0.6 1.4 428 7.7
Univ of Oklahoma Norman Campus  OK  Public  17796   61  6.2 1.1 2.7 408 10.0
George Mason Univ       VA  Public  16304   59  6.1 0.8 1.5 406 8.4
Boston Univ         MA  Private 16722   65  7.1 1.0 1.7 404 9.8
Temple Univ         PA  Public  24526   63  5.0 0.4 1.4 404 6.9
Auburn Univ         AL  Public  18627   60  7.0 1.2 0.8 403 9.1
Loyola Univ Chicago     IL  Private 9084    51  12.4    0.7 2.4 401 15.5
Washington State Univ       WA  Public  19800   62  6.2 0.6 0.7 395 7.5
East Carolina Univ      NC  Public  18606   54  6.6 0.4 2.0 388 9.0
Univ of Maryland-Baltimore Cnty MD  Public  9051    50  13.6    2.8 1.7 387 18.1
Univ of Oregon          OR  Public  18738   62  5.9 1.0 1.0 375 8.0


</p>

<p>sadilly,</p>

<p>At a quick glance, I’m not fully understanding the data. For example…</p>

<p>Iowa State Univ 23103 5.5 1.5 1.4 450 8.4</p>

<p>5.5% are bio.
1.5% are math
1.5% are phy science majors</p>

<p>What is the All Sci 450…total N of other science majors?</p>

<p>8.4% = total of bio/math/physisacl science majors.</p>

<p>Hi Sadilly,</p>

<p>Thanks for making these lists, it’s very helpful. Where are you getting your data from? I would like to see the top schools by business majors.</p>

<p>Oh also this is probably a stupid question, but what is a 50-50 school? Unfortunately, the last link that you posted is blocked for me. Stupid school laptop!</p>