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381

@intparent I am aware. But who’s said if all schools had exactly the same FA costs that she wouldn’t choose SO?
My D put quite a bit of thought into this over break.
Her ED agreement wasn’t uploaded until Tuesday. It was sent but had to be sent again, thank goodness I had the PDF from her counselor.

I’m trusting the NPC. I also looked at the average loan amount for graduates, it’s in the mid 20,000 range. That lines up with our NPC.

The choir…geez the choir, I can’t express what a huge deal that is to a serious chorale student.

But if she is rejected from SO she’s still happy with her other acceptance.

It doesn’t hurt her to go ED to a school that has everything she wanted in a school and meets 100% of demonstrated need.

We know what our demonstrated need is. SO is not disagreeing with us about that.

We’ll know in 3 weeks.

We should also have FA packages from other schools by that time in case she doesn’t get in. But if SO came back and said she needed to borrow 20,000 a year to go, she couldn’t and wouldn’t. She couldn’t and wouldn’t anywhere.

I have advised her to keep loans under 10,000 a year. I’m hoping Knox will be a little more accommodating. I know Earlham will be affordable for her if accepted.

I can and should still try to negotiate the best FA package as possible at other schools. I’m allowed per the ED agreement.

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Even if another package comes in the same, she can’t ethically pick that school. You should negotiable the best deal you can with SO if she gets in, then decide based on that. What other schools offer does not matter.

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@Midwestmomofboys Thank you! It was me who became worried about the party atmosphere. My D is still all about Knox. I read some things about flunk day that kind of worried me for her. And then over break one of her cousins commented that she had a friend who attends and her cousin had gone to visit and had the best time partying. This cousin happens to drink quite excessively, and has had legal issues at a very young age due to drinking. So, those two things may have skewed my perception unfairly?

I appreciate your input about the other schools I considered having her explore. I think most of the ones I listed are going to be an easy acceptance for her, except Oberlin.

Really, I feel pretty content with the list but I have a nagging voice telling me we should look at more.

Many of the schools on the published list of schools that meet full demonstrated need, are not schools she would want to attend anyway. And many are way out of her reach even with better ACT scores.

I think with the help of everyone here we have landed on a solid and realistic list.

I think she and I will both feel good if she doesn’t have to borrow more than 10,000 a year. Obviously the 5500 is ideal.

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@intparent she totally understands the ED agreement. SO is a great school for her with so much to offer if she is accepted. I’m not sure why you think she would try to wiggle out of admission.

She did a lot of thinking and further exploring over break. She is fully aware that she can’t pick and choose between like FA packages.

Again, she is allowed to pursue other schools and FA packages until such time that she is accepted and presented with a FA package from SO. If she didn’t do that she wouldn’t have anything to compare it to.

If another school came back with a better FA offer prior to acceptance she could choose the school with the better package.

Although, that seems very unlikely based on the NPC and SO’s commitment to meeting 100% of demonstrated need for all students.

Also, as we learned with Grinnell, it can appear likely from the AO she will be accepted but she won’t be.

She is absolutely committed to attend SO if accepted and her FA package is affordable. It’s that simple. SO has much to offer and she would be grateful and honored to be accepted and be in a position that she can afford to attend.

Did I mention the choir? The amazing support services for her particular needs?

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“If she didn’t do that she wouldn’t have anything to compare it to”

That is the point. ED pretty much prevents you from comparing. It doesn’t even matter if she has a better deal. If the ED deal is workable, they have to take it. A “more workable” package is irrelevant. No, she can’t just choose the school with the better package. You ARE playing games with the ED rules.

I’m very familiar with SO. My kids’ school is a feeder to it.

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I am not playing with the rules I went over the ED agreement I even quoted it directly in this thread. I even spoke to the admissions officer about it. But the fact is she’s probably not going to get a better financial package than SO.

The ED agreement allows us to pursue other applications and scholarships until such time that she is accepted and provided with her full FA package.

I checked with Admissions.

She is allowed to attend the most affordable like school. I certainly can’t compare SO to the cost of community college.

I don’t know what part of she wants to go there, you don’t understand?

Again, if the net price calculator is a reflection of what her cost would be, this is a huge victory for us because it’s an amazing school. We are not trying to game anything.

And I find it highly unlikely that any other school on this list is going to come back with her only borrowing $5500 a year. I can’t find a state school that would rival that price.

All financial packages equal, SO still offers more than any other school on the list.

She wants to go. But if she doesn’t get in she has other schools that she will be happy to attend. And I’m telling you there’s no way that they’re going to come back with a higher price than any of the other schools, if she’s even admitted. I think you were the one who pointed out her GPA and class rank wouldn’t offset her lower ACT score.

If memory serves me correctly you don’t think she has a chance of getting admitted. I’m not understanding why you are taking such offense to my daughter’s decision to apply ED at SO that meets all of her requirements and will probably result in less loans for her?

But until such time that she is accepted, and you can remind me again how it isn’t likely, we have to do our best to get the most advantageous aid from the schools she has been accepted to or apply to a few more that will meet as much need as possible.

She will be lucky and grateful if SO says yes to her.

But we can’t depend on it.

Edited to add: My D is hoping her scores come out in 36 minutes so they can be used to evaluate her application at SO and boost her chances!!! She wants those scores back before they make the final decision. And Admissions is actually reading applications NOW even though the deadline is the 8th. She wants this.

Just because I want to possibly explore other options for her in case she isn’t admitted everyone here knows from my descriptions of my D that she doesn’t like to have a ton of choices out there.

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No. This is just not true. If this were the case, kids could always say, “Well, I’ll apply ED, then decide if I want to attend my state university (which for most students is cheaper) or the ED school.” Or some other EA school that came in with a slightly better package. Although YOUR student would not find the state school or another EA school cheaper, many students would (which is why I am using it as an example). But that is what it means that ED is binding. If you can at all swing it, you need to keep your commitment to it. You seem to think that because you are low income, somehow that part of the rule doesn’t apply to you. I assure you, it does. She may or may not have a cheaper offer in hand eventually.

I do think she has a chance of being admitted to St. Olaf, although with her test scores currently being quite low and her need high, her odds are lower. St. Olaf is not need blind, so a student who needs a lot of aid is less likely to be admitted.

I also think you should have had her apply to more schools that nearly meet need. The geographic restrictions on he applications so far have limited that pool of colleges. Going farther away would improve her chances of admissions at some of those schools who would like the geographic diversity. Right now if she doesn’t get into St. Olaf, it sounds like she may not have any truly affordable options.

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@intparent I agree if accepted at SO and it is an amount she can reasonably expect to borrow, that’s where she has committed to go. I don’t know who decides what is reasonable for her to borrow? That number seems a bit elusive. The federal government limits that amount to $5500 unless the parent doesn’t qualify for loans or the student is independent.

I didn’t think she could get into other schools that nearly meet need. Although, Earlham does a great job of meeting need and she is awaiting a response from them.

As far as geographical advantage, we also had to be able to get her home. I agree with you that she might have done better at an East Coast school. Although only 1% of SO students come from our state, if I remember correctly.

I can’t stress enough that she wants to go, this is her choice if it is affordable. She is willing to borrow more than the NPC calculator is showing but it would be wonderful if the NPC was indeed accurate.

Maybe all three AOs just say what you want to hear (I hope that’s not true) but all three that have read her one of the “stronger applicants” in this pool.

They are clearly seeing something beyond her ACT score.

I believe based on her parents who have students that have been accepted the NPC is pretty accurate. I hope that is the case.

She is NOT a subpar student. The one big takeaway I learned for other families is how much SO appreciates IB students.They hold them in high regard and view success in IB classes as a good indicator of her ability to perform in a rigorous environment.

Per their website and three admissions officers, test scores are not considered as important as GPA and course rigor.
I feel very hopeful for her but I still think it’s prudent while waiting for the decision to work on FA packages with the other schools and consider putting in a few more applications. Not so she can wiggle out of an ED agreement but in case she isn’t accepted.

I just checked ACT and her scores aren’t there. I suppose it’s possible they could show up before 8am. The next batch will be released on the 10th.

And yes, most any school is out of our reach financially, this is one of the truest statements made. That’s yet another one of many reasons SO would be a huge blessing for her.

I can’t change what has happened to our family over the past several years. I can’t undo or suddenly make up for what I failed to earn. I can only advocate for my children and push her GC to tackle things he has never tackled, like the common app. He’ll be ready for the next kid, though.

I don’t think the rules don’t apply to her because we have a very low income. You are looking at this situation in a very different light. She wants this to work. If it doesn’t work she’s been lucky enough to have some other options that I am helping her navigate possible better FA packages. She chooses SO for many reasons and we listed everything out and spoke extensively over break.

This is indeed her first choice. We didn’t even really consider it after Grinnell because she and i both thought it would be the same type of experience and she wouldn’t stand a chance of admission.

However, I am not hearing from admissions that my daughter has a slim chance rather she is a strong canidate who has several AO pulling for her. They even extended the music scholarship yet again, while the dean of fine arts was still on vacation, she responded to our AO email, opened the app back up so my D and her choir director could submit some musical pieces, today!!. Maybe that means nothing significant but the AO thought it was a big deal and so did my D and her choir director.

I hope it turns out well but if it doesn’t I still feel grateful we have options.

Maybe they need more poor Kansas kids? Maybe there is something compelling about my D? I obviously think there is but I’m clearly biased. Or maybe it’s just the talk of an AO who needs sound encouraging?

So again I would say SO, Earlham and Knox.
My D would say SO, Knox

We’ve got a few more weeks before we know which way this will work out.

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@intparent I do wonder if they are focusing on her math and English subscores? Because her English subscore falls in the upper 75% and Math in the 50%.

It seems like I only saw those two subscores when looking at their common data. This is pure speculation on my part but that could be a factor along with her GPA, course rigor and class rank? But something is sparking not just one AO but three to think she is not just an average candidate but a strong canidate. The AO told me how many applicants they have in this pool but I’m so tired I’ve forgotten if it was 400 or 600 but it’s one of those numbers. I assume more will come in before the ED2 deadline of the 8th.

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The net price calculators show student loans in the “Estimated Self Help” section. The first-year federal limit is $5500. So I think other NPCs shouldn’t be showing student loan amounts as high as $10-12000 under “Estimated Self Help”. Maybe some do; some schools also will list a “Parent Loan” amount that may be much higher than the federal loan limit. However, $5500 is not an exceptionally good student loan deal.

Still, if YOUR out-of-pocket is only $288, that’s terrific. If that is what the SO NPC shows you, and if you like everything else about SO, then it seems to me that submitting an ED application is not an unreasonable thing to do (notwithstanding the conventional wisdom that high-need applicants should apply RD to be able to compare offers). You just need to understand that, if SO accepts you with an aid offer reasonably close to their NPC estimate, you’re expected to withdraw all other applications. ED precludes you from keeping other applications active in hopes of getting a package with a lower student loan amount (which you might in fact be able to get from some other college).

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@Grinnellhopeful Regarding ACT scores, I believe the only batch that get released at midnight are the scores that come out on the first day. For future releases, they come out at various points during the day.

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@Grinnellhopeful

I think you may be misinterpreting that data. The mid 50 ACT data for St Olaf is 26-30, so with a 26, your D falls at the 25th percentile mark. She is in range and with her strong grades and the ED boost at SO, she definitely has a chance.
For math, the mid 50 mark is 25 - 30, so if your D is below 25 on math she would fall in the bottom 25th percentile.
English is 26-33, so if she has a 33 there, she is at the 75th percentile mark, if she has over a 33, she would fall in the top quartile.

393

@Hapworth again, none of your perception is reality. Almost all of my friends had some sort of financial aid, and very few are conservative. Most are very liberal or moderate like myself. And the OP did indicate willingness to look in the south. With a generous aid package, travel is possible. My fellow graduates were all excellent students who went on for advanced degrees at many top universities. And with any small LAC, being well known nationwide is a challenge. I had not heard of St Olaf prior to this thread. There is absolutely zero reason for the OP’s child not to look at it. In fact, the OP herself said she would.

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@Grinnellhopeful how many times have you talked to SO? I had no idea that an admissions office would share so much information with a parent. They told you how many kids are in the ED2 pool? You know that three AOs have read your daughter’s application? That’s so interesting. I would never think to call and ask all of those questions.

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@chb088 Rollins looks like a lovely school, but it has a big Greek life, lots of preppy kids with lots of money to burn etc. Even if there are kids there on FA it is not a fit for the OP’s daughter if she likes schools like Earlham and Knox. I’m not sure why you’re pushing it. Not saying Rollins isn’t a good school, but it’s not a good fit based on what I have read here.

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@citymama9 The OP already stated they were going to look at it. You don’t seem to have any inside knowledge of the school, so you should keep your opinion to yourself.

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The OP has said that ease of travel, particularly by train, is a priority, and has held off on schools outside the midwest because of that.

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@chb088 @Midwestmomofboys Rollins has been mentioned more than once over the course of this thread. At this point it should be up to the OP and her D to decide if it is a fit (socially, geographically etc.) and is worth pursuing.

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Can’t a Pell eligible student usually borrow more? I am not recommending it, merely pointing it out.

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@happy1 exactly. OP already stated they were looking at it.