@Grinnellhopeful, good luck as jumping from a 26 to 32 ACT would certainly impact her choices.
Have you run net price calculators on every school on your list? They are on the financial aid page of each school, and tell what it might cost to attend THAT school. Many of the schools you are discussing do not meet full need. A higher test score will improve her odds at the schools that do meet need. Also, you mention early on needing good need based and merit aid. I’m not sure any school discussed so far “stacks” merit and need based aid. Most of these schools would just swap out some component of need based aid for merit aid, and your cost of attendance would not change. So don’t assume that because the net price calculator shows a given cost, and maybe think she would get a merit scholarship on top of it that it would be affordable. Even outside merit scholarships not offered by the schools will reduce need based aid at most schools. Some schools will at least replace loans in that situation, but it varies how schools handle it.
Also, I’m going to reiterate what was said above about the essay. She should NOT take the prompt so literally. If she can find something to write about that shows her personality and makes them want to have her on campus, that is what you are looking for. I think it is appropriate to put something about her personal circumstance in the Additional Information section if the counselor is not describing it fully in their recommendation. But it should be brief and to the point (factual), not another essay. Using the essay to show some other side of herself that isn’t about family tragedy is fine. The essay you’ve described sounds like an essay where she is trying to convince them of something. The point of the college essay is to show your personality, ideally through examples and anecdotes – not a persuasive essay about her opinion on something. It is quite different from the typical classroom essay, and not uncommon for students and parents to mistake it for that. There are some tips pinned to the top of the essay forum that might be helpful if she decides to rewrite it.
@intparent I’m probably not doing a good job describing the essay. There are two people on the thread that have read it. It’s not at all a persuasive essay, more of an essay that illustrates how she would benefit from from the type of education she’s seeking. I have run the net price at a Knox, which does offer quite a bit of merit, they did not reduce her merit because of the Pell Grant. She doesn’t have the official acceptance or the official numbers from FA, but if the conversation with the admissions director comes to fruition she would be looking at MUCH less than she would at KSU with her merit scholarships.
I think that’s what some people fail to understand, at least at my state school. Sometimes your sticker price at the more expensive private LAC is considerably less expensive.
For example, my D will have to borrow approx 15,000 a year to attend KSU after the Pell Grant, and the scholarships she has been offered thus far.
If she wasn’t eligible for scholarships and Pell she would walk away with 120,000 or more in student loans for 4 years at state school.
There aren’t many schools that meet full need and you’re less likely to find them instate public.
If we can get her down to 5000 - 7000 a year in loans I will consider that a win.
Even Grinnell wouldn’t have been without loans. She would have graduated with approx 20,000 in loans for 4 years. That is a reasonable amount. Anything under 30,000 for 4 years is not excessive and should be manageable for a student.
I don’t expect her to not have any expenses, and she will have to be responsible for those loans herself.
State School is not the bargain some people perceive it to be.
I haven’t gone through the list of all schools they meet full need, yet. I know a few on that list. Vanderbilt is one, she does not want to go there, if she could get in.
And I am aware that some include federal loans. But they still won’t put her at 15,000 a year or more, like our state does.
Someone mentioned Lawrence being more like a 95% Need school. I think there a few of those out there. I also believe we are close to meeting criteria for admission into a school where she can get a good education in an environment she will thrive in. I hope we are anyway.
The ACT went very well today. And I think you misunderstood her first score. Our state and high school average score is 21-22…her score was 26 the first time.
We are just starting to explore options that are not KSU and are not Grinnell, as I see her express real interest in one, I will run NPC and call to get estimates. Knox was great about giving me some numbers.
However, until I see those in an official award package, I won’t hold my breathe. And we don’t have admission yet at any of the places we JUST applied to.
I suppose it’s possible she won’t be offered admission anywhere. But I’m gonna try to be hopeful. And I absolutely will advise her NOT to borrow 15,000 a year after aid and merit to go to KSU when it is not the environment she seeks.
@OHMomof2 I had the FASFA done on Oct 1. I’ve only done the CSS profile once and that was for Grinnell. I don’t know if that information is saved and goes to other schools that use the CSS profile?
But Knox did not require the CSS profile. Earlham hasn’t asked me for it yet. I didn’t even know what a CSS profile was before October. If it saves from one school to another then we should be covered as far as documents go.
Dickinson is a little farther away, but they meet 99% of need (per their definition), so they sometimes fly a little under the radar compared to schools that meet need. They’d like the geographic diversity of a kid from Kansas, too. One of my kids went there and had a great experience. If her test score is 30 or higher, she should give them a shot.
Because you need so much need, it is helpful to know which schools (1) meet need, and (2) are or are not need blind. A school might meet need, but if they are not need blind, your high need will reduce her chances of admission. That means that she maybe needs to have stats on the high end of the applicant pool to get in – they aren’t going to use their need based aid on student that don’t increase something they want in the applicant pool. Of course, schools that meet need are harder to get into.
I know it is Wikipedia, but I find these pretty easy to review lists of who meets needs, who is need blind, and various combinations of those:
I’m right with you on the state schools costing more for certain families.
One thing my S found was that schools that didn’t promise to meet full need but for which he was very qualified did, in fact, come up with packages that met need…for him. Your D may find this also with some of the “safety” schools on her list.
This list may be helpful: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/list-of-colleges-that-meet-100-of-financial-need/ - includes schools that meet need in the 90s but not 100%. If the school also doesn’t package loans (this is rare), then she can borrow to help meet the family contribution if necessary.
You (or your D) need to log into both FAFSA and Profile to send them to each school that requires them. Profile charges for this ($16 per school I think), though if you have ACT fee and app waiver, you should also have college board waiver that allows, I think, 4 schools for free. FAFSA is free for as many as you need.
Make sure the schools don’t have other weird requirements - they won’t always email you to let you know. We almost missed a great package from one of D’s schools because we were missing some form and the portal didn’t show it and no one was notified. Only when she emailed to ask why the FA latter hadn’t arrived by early April did she learn this one doc was holding up the FA award. It was something little too, like a statement of something or other she didn’t notice.
I just revisited Earlham’s FA page and remembered that when I did the NPC there I had to login through collegebound and my CSS profile was already there. Earlham appears to do a very good job with meeting need. They have a graph on the first page of the FA section that shows the average amount of aid given per income bracket. It’s huge.
I believe there is strong push to make LAC affordable for low income families. Glancing through my list quickly with the article linked above, many of the schools are on there.
And even many reaches accept students with 26-28 ACT scores. If everything else stacks up. Although that would be a reach for many.
I feel the need to stand up for a 26 ACT (her first and only score)for a moment. 26 is not a horrible score. It is still in the 83%. Which is probably why nobody at our school pushed her to take it again. Let alone take it with her accommodations.
I worry when I see people referring to that score a “very low”. If I was a 16-17 year old reading that comment I might be very discouraged even devastated.
Not everyone has access to test prep. We didn’t. So, it is very easy to see why a score significant score jump would be likely of you add the accommodation to the equation, and simply taking it a second time.
My D did mention that being in physics with a very strong A (98%) made the science section much easier this time. When she took it in September she had only been in school a few weeks. So, now she has almost a full semester of physics behind her.
What if a child goes to a school that doesn’t offer physics? It makes me wonder if standardized testing is truly a reflection of a student’s ability to learn or be successful.
This definitely creates a bias towards higher income families, in better schools.
My school district does not require a 4th year of math and science to graduate. They should but they don’t. I’m grateful my D chose on her own to take those classes. She will be better prepared.
As far a GPA, I have given up trying to calculate how it will be viewed at each college. Some schools use weighted some calculate using only core classes, sometimes we don’t know. My school reports it one way only on the transcripts.
I believe her weighted was 4.2 or 4.12…I have notes of that somewhere.
Also with another semester of A’s under her belt, it will increase a little more.
I’m not at all concerned that she will be taken off any schools radar for her GPA or course rigor. Her class rank also speaks to her ability. She dropped below a 4.0 when she got the C. She will be back above the 4.0 at the end of the semester.
Again, every school calculates differently. Even our school calculates differently for sports eligibility, only using core classes.
I would say she has had mostly A’s one C, and I think 1 B in IB Chem. I could pull out her transcript if I need to. But I feel like that’s a pretty accurate representation.
The reaches often are accepting hooked students with lower scores. They are athletes, URMs, legacies, etc. Now geographical diversity does count for a bit, and some of the schools farther away may not see many Kansas applicants. But you can’t assume things are going to fall in her direction at the schools were her test score is below the 25% mark. And if they are not need blind, you really want her stats to be above the 50% mark for sure.
The federal direct loan limits (without cosigner) are $5,500 frosh year, $6,500 soph year, and $7,500 each of junior and senior years.
Colleges commonly expect that students will have part time and/or summer jobs that allow them to contribute up to $3,000 to $5,000 per year.
So a net price after grants and scholarships (not loans) of around $10,000 is probably on the outer edge of affordability. Obviously, the lower the better.
According to college net price calculators, estimated net prices with EFC = $0, 3.97 GPA, and 30 ACT are:
$8,010 St. Olaf https://wp.stolaf.edu/financialaid/net-price-calculator/
$9,178 Truman State http://www.truman.edu/admission-cost/net-price-calculator/step-1/
$9,300 Macalester https://npc.collegeboard.org/student/app/macalester
$10,840 Carleton https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/afford/estimator/
$16,315 Knox https://www.knox.edu/admission/cost-and-financial-aid/scholarship-and-cost-estimator
$16,822 Beloit https://beloit.studentaidcalculator.com/survey.aspx
$22,280 Earlham https://npc.collegeboard.org/student/app/earlham
$24,086 Drake http://www.drake.edu/admission/first-yearstudents/costsfinancialaid/drakepricecalculator/
You should rerun them with your real information just to be sure. However, it looks like only about three or four of the colleges in the list in post #0 are likely to be affordable. (Note: some of these include merit scholarships as well as need-based financial aid, so you may want to run them with both 26 and 30 ACT.)
@Grinnellhopeful, we’re all rooting for you and your daughter (I’m ellivdaed’s spouse). You’re doing great with everything. Two suggestions come to mind.
First, (repeating from Grinnell thread) on the financial aid, contact the FA office at each school and ask if you can a) send them an email with special circumstances that impact the financial aid you can receive and b) get an early estimate of financial aid based on what they require (FAFSA and/or CSS). As noted above, since you’ve done both you can simply re-use the info for the new colleges.
This is important for a few reasons. If you develop a working relationship with the FA officer they are likely to prompt you for anything you might have missed. And based on what you’ve written here you do have some special circumstances that need to be included. The standard forms cover only the past year - it really helps them to know how you got where you are, and the family tragedy absolutely should be part of that. FA officers are human - they are allowed to make judgement calls and want to help people.
In our case a description of our own special financial situation (involving siblings of our D who applied to Grinnell) reduced our expected payment to two colleges by $8k/year each.
My second recommendation is to find a way, even if your D won’t, to let the admissions folks know the recent family history. This is critically important to providing a fair assessment. I understand why she doesn’t want to mention that, but the reality is that from the admission office’s point of view they want to learn about that because it tells them so much more about the applicant. The fact that the two of you have gone through that experience and come out of it as well as you have says so much about her and her abilities and resolve. It also provides real, warm, human context for the cold, bare test scores and grades of the last few years.
I will tell you that at the Grinnell parent presentation one thing the admissions reps stressed was that they are looking for the trajectory of the student. If there was a crisis and the student overcame that they want to know about it - and will view the earlier grades in that light. (This was a big point for me not for my D who was applying to Grinnell, but to one of her siblings.)
ACT 26 is a great score. Well above average. There is ZERO shame in that - completely the opposite. Add in the full context and it’s even more impressive.
Is she Questbridge eligible as that is an amazing program that match students with demonstrated need to schools?
In order to target your effort between now and January 1st/15th deadline dates, if she hasn’t already done so she should first focus on those schools that meet 100% of demonstrated need - they are all great schools!
@GocartMozart Thank you for that comment. It’s refreshing to be validated. I don’t really know that we have special circumstances. I mean our EFC is already zero. I only made about $9000 last year. I think that all speaks pretty loudly to our ability to pay.
I did start a small business, but I am the only one who works there, I hope to see a bring living wage in the next few years. I’m lucky that I have a very small mortgage payment and my home is in a very good part of the city. Honestly, we are blessed compared to others.
Our school district is not horrible and at least we do have an option for Calc and Physics in our school. And we have an IB program, although it’s struggling. We have a wonderful arts program and a little,diversity which is not typical in my county.
As I began communicating with Knox I proactively sent the admissions rep not only the SAR but my last two years tax returns. I only did that because we were already discussing affordability.
I have very strong feelings about young adults graduating from a four year institution with 100,000 in debt. I will do everything in my power to make sure that doesn’t happen to my children. But that IS the state school reality, and it traps kids in the same cycle of near poverty they came from.
My daughter has aspirations that will require a PHd. But a lot of young adults going to college thinking a four year degree is going to get them a job that’s going to pay off these ridiculous student loans.
I could’ve done better by my kids. I should have earned more, planned better, etc. But I got caught up in just trying to survive. So, hopefully I am helping them in this way, advocating for something different and trying hard to be realistic.
My daughter did reluctantly put a statement on her app about our struggles over the last several years. And I will throw my pride out the window to advocate for her and scream please look at this amazing child.
However, even without the hardships, she is a good student, a great student.
And I just hope that other kids reading this don’t lose hope because they have a 26 ACT score and they’re in the top 15% in the class.
That shows consistent hard work. That is a measure of future success.
Thank you for also acknowledging this.
I’m so glad to have you both following our progress, without this forum I wouldn’t have submitted more apps. Or encouraged my daughter to keep trying.
[
@Chembiodad She is not. I had never heard of Questbridge before this board. I don’t know if we would’ve been eligible but I do know at this point it’s too late. And I am desperately trying to get through those lists and find places where they meet need and my daughter has a decent shot of getting in, and they are a fit. If she doesn’t feel comfortable at the campus it doesn’t matter how little it cost, she’ll end up coming home. So I have quite the task in front of me, I think I’m off to a fairly decent start. But I should’ve started this a long time ago. Hopefully, we will hear from Knox and Earlham very soon.
It certainly seems like she meets the 75th percentile mark in both those places. But at the end of the day what is going to make her stand out from the other thousands of people that also have those stats?
I still feel like it’s somewhat of a lottery. End it certainly feels mysterious at times. You see kids with perfect stats being rejected and kids with not so great stats being accepted. And I have learned over the past few weeks that sometimes it comes down to something as simple as they need more kids that play brass instruments in their band, or they need some kids from a specific region or school.
It’s been pointed out by a few people that we might do better going outside of our region. The only problem with that is my concern about being able to get her back home from time to time or my ability to get to her.
But I’m oh so grateful for everyone who is chiming in, giving me good advice, and direction. Because as I mentioned I wouldn’t have even applied anywhere else had it not been for this forum and people that cared enough to reach out.
You have to realize that I have never even heard of most of these schools. So it’s a very overwhelming for me I can’t imagine how overwhelming it is for my daughter. This thread is beginning to get me to a list of places that might work.
But until we have an acceptance letter and fin package in hand, we are still without a clue. That is a scary place to be.
I consider it progress that she knows what won’t work for her.
Is she planning to apply ED2? If yes, given the geographical preference I think St. Olaf should be strongly considered as it meets 100% of demonstrated need, also offer merit scholarships, is a great school, and would be a current match.
What if a child goes to a school that doesn’t offer physics?
The science section on the ACT is not measuring knowledge of a particular science in the way a subject test does. It measures the ability to read and comprehend data and charts on science topics. You don’t need to know formulas and equations to do well on that section. But since it is reading intensive, the extra time is especially helpful in that section, and of course if you are used to reading science texts, that is helpful too.
As for a 26, that score is well above the national average and seems like it’s one of the strongest at her school, so she should feel proud. But at extremely selective schools like Grinnell, they have the luxury of having so many applicants with 95+, that even a score in the 95th percentile can seem low. But that’s really a small segment of the schools out there. You seem to have developed a good list now and your D should have some very nice choices.
@Chembiodad Yes, that my objective at this moment, identify a good ED2 school to maximize her chances. I’m trying to push her to look at St. Olaf, they have been sending us recruiting material for months, even with her 26. I have only heard positive things about them from everyone. I couldn’t get her to consider anything except KSU and Grinnell prior to Wednesday. St. Olaf feels like a good place to me, has everything she wants, including the choir. But I have to spoon feed her little bits at a time. We are just a little over 24 hours from her heartbreaking rejection.
@ucbalumnus I have talked to FA and admissions at three of those schools and they are not giving me numbers that high. They are me coming back less than 6000 mark, with her current stats.
St. Olaf is 100% need…that number seems really high. However, until I see an actual financial package with an acceptance letter, they can tell me whatever they want.
As of today she only has a letter of acceptance and partial financial picture from KSU. Because she only applied to two schools prior to 12/1.
I am gun shy and skeptical after the Grinnell experience.
I appreciate that you are showing me those worst case numbers. But even when I run the NPC that’s not what I’m getting. But that’s just an estimate. Let me run again with our actual numbers at Earlham and Knox. Knox told me that they were put in new incentive in, she was going to check with the president to make sure that was still the deal, but they were going to change things up right now, mid admissions cycle for a certain GPA and ACT threshold. They have all of our information including our tax returns and FASFA, I’m waiting for a letter, which she said would come by snail mail, that says we are in and shows me definitively the cost. Like I said, I’m afraid to get hopeful.
@ucbalumnus I think your numbers are higher than mine because you don’t have my age, or my other dependent child in the equation.
Because none of these schools rely just on the FASFA.
I did indeed find that my CSS profile was still in there. They look at my age (47), mortgage balance, home equity, value of my business, business loan balance, my zero retirement funds, etc. But probably the biggest difference is my 15-year-old daughter.