Both of my kids colleges had forms we needed to submit to verify their enrollment in college.
Fact is…some folks file the financial aid forms thinking their second kid will be in college, so they put 2. But then the second kid doesn’t enroll…so poof its really one. This is why most colleges and especially ones that have very generous need based aid want to know for sure that the second kid is actually in college.
And yes…some do ask for the amount spent for the siblings. @sybbie719 could you comment on this?
@KevinFromOC also, keep in mind that if your older daughter does count this coming year, she will have to continue to be enrolled for all four years…because you apply for need based aid annually. If kid 2 isn’t in college…the family contribution for kid one will at least double.
Also, at Profile schools, it’s not 50/50 for each kid. It’s 60/60.
I just had to get a sibling verification form for my D’s college (she’s a junior) completed by my S’s (freshman) college. The form asked for the COA of S’s school, and I noticed that the FA officer put the total COA of the university, not what we actually pay. S’s college did not ask for sibling verification.
If you choose Princeton based on your older daughter also being in college, just make sure that you have a plan in place in the event that college doesn’t work out for her after a year…or semester.
It can be a shock to think you are paying $18,000 for school, and then find out that the cost jumped to $30,000.
If you have to report what you are paying for the sibling…this may or may not be an issue for you. It depends on what you are paying.
Does your daughter want to study abroad? I would check out the details. FA can be used toward study abroad semesters…but your D may want to also do things such as extra travel etc. These things are not covered by FA…and she may want to travel to other countries, go on tours etc. When my D studied abroad she took plenty of of additional trips with the other students. The costs add up.
If she wants to study abroad during the summer…will she be able to? Will she receive FA? What if she wants to do an unpaid internship in London (I know 4 students of varying majors who did this)? Can you pay the additional money for room and board?
I am not saying to take a full ride over Princeton, but I am saying that these decisions will be easier once finances are not involved.
@KevinFromOC I have another thought to share. You indicated that your daughter plans to be an engineering major. You also indicated that you might consider splitting the loans with her, should you decide to go that route. This could mean $30,000+ in loans just for your daughter.
What if your daughter starts school and realizes that she hates engineering? That happened to my friend’s D…she switched to International Relations…and is currently looking for a job (graduated from a “top” school).
My co-worker’s daughter decided to work for a non-profit following graduation from Duke…for very little pay.
My point is…will you be able to cover all of these loan payments yourself… if your daughter can’t? Will she feel pressured into staying in engineering if her interests change…because she has these loans (not suggesting that you would pressure her)?
It’s a good point, but in my opinion this argues more strongly in favor of choosing the most elite school available, if that elite is HYPSM or Caltech.
OP’s daughter is STEM, with a proven high level record already (perfect math testing, including BC Calc in sophomore year and two years beyond, perfect GPA achieved independently in boarding school while balancing athletics). Likely excellent interpersonal and team skills (you don’t get to be a near recruitable athlete for nothing). Female and Latina. She also seems level headed and conscious of money concerns.
Nothing in life is certain, but graduating from Caltech or Princeton (two of the names we have been kicking around) with even a decent undergrad record, someone with a profile like hers will have far more lucrative options outside of engineering than within the field. I have personally seen this in my own circle (we are Hispanic as well). A balancing of the probabilities favors taking on an additional $40-60K total in debt, if necessary, for the option value of an elite degree - again, more for what might be available outside of engineering than within the field. Front office Wall Street won’t visit Purdue or Rose Hulman, for instance.
If engineering is absolutely certain to be the life path, then definitely assign a higher weight to cost in the overall decisionmaking calculus.
@dropbox77177 - IMO nothing is “certain” for a HS kid applying to colleges. As the old adage goes, half the freshmen enter with their major as “undecided” and the other half change their major.
The OP ( and the last poster) seem to be new members to this community. Welcome. But it is wise to consider listening to the advice of many of those who have BTDT (been there, done that). Ultimately it is the OP’s choice as to how he spends his money, but paying with money one cannot afford for the window car decal (as they say) may not be a financial wise choice. If it is simply a matter of a little belt tightening (contributing less into a retirement plan, which, BTW, if done with pretax $ will be considered income) thats one thing. But if it means being saddled with $100K in loans, that is a lot of $.
While it is possible that the daughter will end college with a great job (a suggested thought is to not leave college with more debt than one expects to earn their first year out of college) , she may consider grad school and not have much in earnings after undergrad.
And, if what was shared with us at the outset is true, and the student does not care where she goes to school, it should be HER choice.
Additionally, should she win a top, Stamps scholarship at one of the schools, or the Morehead-McCain, Robertson, etc., these can often open more doors, offer better opportunities and connections, and leave the student with no debt. A friend’s son turned down Harvard for the Foundation Fellows scholarship at UGA. There are wonderful opportunities with these scholarships, should one happen to be awarded.
@dropbox77177 I’m getting the impression you love Caltech. And that’s fine. It’s a great school. BUT this kid already has 20 colleges or more (depending on which post you read) to apply to, some worth extra scholarship essays and the like.
I do not advocate adding an additional college at this time…she has plenty already.
Nothing is certain. Nothing. And if this family has to pay back $70,000 in loans… and if this is a struggle for them (maybe it won’t be?)…it can significantly limit the choices of this particular student.
My coworker’s daughter graduated from Duke and makes under $35,000 a year at a non-profit.
My other coworker’s kid graduated from a top LAC (Amherst Carleton Williams etc) and works as a paralegal right now.
My family member graduated from a top school (such as Duke) with an engineering degree. He chose to work for a start-up for relatively low pay … because it offered an experience that he wanted… and couldn’t find elsewhere.
Having to pay back hefty loans… IF it is a struggle…and maybe it won’t be?.. limits your options. It puts students in the position of HAVING to take the high paying job… rather than CHOOSING to take it because they really want it.
Will this family be able to pay back the loans if their daughter can’t?
For most students, the advice not to carry a large amount of (or any) student loan debt is sound. However, it could pay off spectacularly for some students. There’re some undergrads who makes $250k+ right after graduation. These jobs are based exclusively on merits but they’re only available to a few graduates from a few schools. The odds are obviously very low but they aren’t zero if you attend one of these few schools and are outstanding in one of a few select fields.
I agree that going to a “top” school is not necessarily going to automatically equal a high paying job. Of the couple of rooms in my little dorm tower at an Ivy - one girl dropped out, two became HS teachers (one graduated with her engineering degree), one became an MD, another started a small design company that has always struggled, and I went into the not for profit world. Of my extended friend group, many of us with advanced degrees, 75% of us chose to stop working to raise our children.
IMO, I 100% agree with this:
I also think it’s simply unnecessary to even go down that route. OP’s D is going to get in to at least a couple of schools that are going to be in budget.
Kevin… how will your daughter feel if she is forced to take a job she doesn’t want because she has to split these loans with you? How will you feel? Life after graduation can be hard enough for some … even under the best of circumstances.
This seems like a lot to ask from a kid who doesn’t particularly care where she goes to school. I agree that she will have some outstanding offers that will not require large loans.
There is also no guarantee that Princeton will open doors if she drops engineering. In the real world there are superstars with seriously outrageous resumes from Alabama, and students from Cornell with little to show for it. That is reality. We don’t know enough about your daughter. And opening doors does not necessarily mean high salaries.
I would personally be prepared to pay back any loans that are taken out. If the graduate is in a position to pay it back ( decent entry level job, good mental health etc) and is mature enough to not put this entire burden on his/her family… that’s great!
Of course, who would argue otherwise? One of the prestigious full ride, cohort scholarships would be fantastic and many kids wisely choose to take one over Harvard, especially if the choice is full pay at $320K versus $0 plus the perks of being in something like a Morehead-McCain, or Foundation Fellows program. (However, I do actually know one student who chose the Robertson at Duke over Harvard and regretted the choice deeply in the end, after graduation.)
But here we are not talking about $320K versus $0K, at least not in the base case. My comments have only addressed the possible scenario of acceptance to an elite at $25-30K effective price versus a much less prestigious school at $15-20K price. In view of the assumed family income, and large home equity, and likely employment prospects of a female Latina who is high ability in STEM, the $40-60K additional cost for the elite over four years (only some of which presumably would be in the form of loans) should not be dispositive. In my opinion of course, and based on what I have seen of outcomes.
Also, I should add that there is a non-trivial chance of a student loan bailout sometime over the next decade. Obviously it can’t and shouldn’t be counted upon, but at least some option value should be assigned to the possibility when calculating the implications of incurring student debt right now.
$40-60k is on the low end. If the EFC rises each year the loans can be higher… and that doesn’t include things like study abroad, unpaid internships and research etc.
Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but the EFC is based upon family resources today. If the EFC rises, it will be because more resources are available in the future. An elite school with generous financial aid will be more likely to keep EFC rises modest than a school with less generous aid. So this possibility is not really much of a consideration to the decision today.
Similarly, the other things like study abroad, unpaid internships and research, etc. are possibilities whether at an elite or at a less expensive school. In fact, being at the elite will make it more likely that she will be supported or paid in these activities. Thus, they do not add much incremental information to the potential choice faced today.
Again, this analysis does not apply to a cohort-based full-ride scholarship recipient, which will carry special opportunities and potentially funding for those activities.
Non-trivial chance of a loan bailout? That’s how we’re advising the OP- to bet on that?
Wow, some of you guys live in a fantasy world, spending other people’s money, encouraging debt for a family with a child with extraordinary medical needs, and two parents who are already employed (so it’s not as though the SAH parent can go out and find a job to augment the income).
The OP’s D is going to have some fine affordable choices. Top student, coming out of a prep school which undoubtedly sends its graduates off very well prepared for college life and academics. Nobody needs to be selling plasma in this scenario OR taking out enormous loans.
I have launched my kids. Right now they are all successful (monetarily) and happy and doing what they love. There were years when paying loans would have been an extreme hardship for them (public service jobs which may or may not have qualified for a loan repayment program but that is extremely iffy to bank on) and years where they might have been able to swing it, but were living in high cost of living areas which is where the phenomenal career opportunities were. And what do you do when the kid gets into one of the top grad programs in the field- which is ALSO in a high cost of living area? And what do you do when a kid has extraordinary medical issues-- and is locked into a high deductible policy at work?
You help when you can, of course. And you are grateful that a job loss (or two, in our case) during the college years did not derail the kids education.
So many unknowns. Companies blow up- even secure jobs can go away. Healthy people are diagnosed with terrible diseases every single day. Young people need to go on disability for a time to deal with said terrible disease- and yes, disability insurance is great. But you’re talking about a 40% paycut depending on the policy.
Why should this family borrow for Princeton if the kid genuinely doesn’t care where she goes?
I know kids at Ivy League schools who accepted unpaid summer research positions.
Whether small increases in an EFC will matter… or not…we don’t know.
At the end of the day everybody chooses to do what they are comfortable doing.
None of this applies to a full ride. It applies to a family who is considering the possibility of splitting loans … possibly $70,000 ± a year… with their daughter. Will the daughter be in a position to pay back $30,000? Maybe she will… maybe she won’t.
I don’t have an answer. I am just trying to bring about some realistic scenarios. My coworkers daughter from Duke… earning very little at a non-profit… would not be able to do this.
What’s wrong with knowing you have to take a high paying job on graduation?
I certainly had to, after student loans to pay for a top 3 law school. But because I went to a top 3 law school I had my pick of great jobs, took one, and paid off my loans in 3 years.
There are so many paths that will work for this family. Both the daughter and father are clearly extremely bright, I think they will be able to weigh all their options (which we don’t know today) using all the information about their circumstances (which I feel the need to remind people, we cannot, and should not, have).
Well, it’s certainly a lot of pressure to know you have to get a high paying job. It would be nice if that was a choice and not a must. What if they want to move to some LCOL area that just doesn’t have the income potential. Or want to do mission work for awhile? It just limits your options a lot having that loan noose around your neck.
Two of my BIL’s went to law school. One took on a crap ton of debt and is now driving trucks for the oil fields in ND to pay his loans. He couldn’t get a position that paid enough in law and couldn’t afford to take a lower paying job to work his way up, so oil fields it is. The other one took out no debt (or very minimal if there was any) I’m not sure how he did it exactly. I know he was working for a firm as an undergrad and I think they covered all or a lot of his law school, plus there was a lot of need-based aid in undergrad (his brother got the same there). He has his own law firm now and is doing extremely well.