looking for advice on next year's schedule -- IB student -- any comments appreciated!

Applying to College
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<p>My son will be attending an international boarding school next year where he will earn his IB diploma. He already has three years of high school under his belt, so he is repeating his senior year (most kids at his new school are).</p>

<p>He is trying to decide his classes for next year. He is looking to apply for top schools (Princeton, Georgetown, U of Chicago, Yale, etc) so he needs to make sure he has the class schedule they want. He has the ECs, awards, GPA, etc (as long as he keeps up with what he has been doing).</p>

<p>Anyway, here is the class he wants to take and the classes he has taken in that area:</p>

<p>Science -- wants to take IB Environmental Studies SL. He has taken Physics, biology and natural science. He is not a science kid and has a real interest in ES (shown in ECs). He has not taken Chem (and doesn't really want two years of it)</p>

<p>Math -- wants to take IB Math SL (not math methods). He has taken Algebra I & II and Geometry. While he does well in math and learns quickly, two years of bad teachers/curriculum did not help here -- and it shows on the standardized tests. </p>

<p>English -- wants to take IB English HL. He has taken tons of English, including World Lit, Western Lit, Lit of the Natural World, Intro to Lit. </p>

<p>Social Studies -- wants to take IB Economics HL and IB Geography HL. he has taken APUSH, World Regional Geography, American Gov, Classical Studies and comparative religions. </p>

<p>Language -- wants to take IB Arabic Ab Initio. He has already taken a year of Arabic, but his school only offers Arabic I & II, so he has to start over (it is a firm rule). He will call his first year of Arabic -- "intro to Arabic language and culture". He also have two years of Latin, but only Latin II was taken in High school</p>

<p>Fine Arts -- He doesn't want to take any classes in art, music or drama and he doesn't have any from past years. He does play violin and participates as an EC.</p>

<p>Other -- His new school limits the kids to only 6 classes, 3 HL and 3 SL. He is going to petition to add a 7th SL class -- either peace and conflict studies or world religions.</p>

<p>Please let me know what you think -- I am most worried about the lack of Chem, lack of fine arts classes and the lack of four years of a foreign language.</p>

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<p>Can you clarify his situation a little? Will he be at this new school for two years, or only one? The IB diploma program normally takes two years--has he already done a year of it?</p>

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<p>He will be at the new school for two years. It is an IB school and all classes are two year classes (they don't do any of the one year IB classes). He has not done any IB classes previously -- but has done three years of high school work (including numerous CC dual enroll classes).</p>

<p>I know it is a unique situation -- but any advice would help. The school he will be attending is The United World College of the Atlantic: <a href="http://www.atlanticcollege.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.atlanticcollege.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>bump.........</p>

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<p>Instead of petitioning to be able to take 4 SLs, it would probably be much easier to just convince them to let him take 4 or 5 HLs and the rest SL.
IBO allows students to do this so many kids at my school (including myself) do this.
This would probably be better preparation for college anyway because it would force him to take more difficult classes in some of his weaker areas (although with his math background it doesn't sound like HL would be too too awful)</p>

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<p>IB degrees hinge on scoring high enough on the IB exams. As I recall you need atleast 4 HL (2 year) exams and 2 SL (one year) exams. I suggest having him figure out which classes he wants to do the HL exams and make sure he takes two full years of those. Pre-IB classes in the same subject may not be enough - IB exams seem very particular to that curriculum. </p>

<p>My S skipped a year of foreign language and took the SL test as a Junior - giving him only 3 years. It didn't seem to hurt him in the college process. He took no art, but doubled up on science instead - OK by IB rules.</p>

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<p>most kids at his school (90%) only take 3 HL and 3 SL, they will occasionally let a student take a 7th class, either HL or SL depending on the circumstances. I have been told that taking an additional HL class would be suicide -- almost every kid who does this drops it to SL after a semester or two. The exception is kids who are totally bilingual and take two languages as HL and two other subjects. The school is international -- so most kids are fluent in English and a second language.</p>

<p>All the classes are two years long -- both SL and HL. seems to be different at different schools. He should be fine as far as passing the IB exams -- Atlantic College was the first IB school and is regularly in the top five scoring IB schools in the world. Every kid is doing IB.</p>

<p>I just worry about how his class choice will look to top schools -- he is a humanities kid, there is no doubt. he wants to major in religious studies and possibly international relations. </p>

<p>It seems like the IB diploma program can really differ from school to school -- different classes, different numbers and levels, different numbers of years. It really gets confusing. he would take environmental studies as an HL -- but it isn't offered. he would take Arabic as an HL -- but again, it isn't offered. I think math HL would kill him -- he just doesn't have the preparation for it. I have also been told that the kids coming from asian countries and Germany and eastern europe are so far ahead of the US in math that the US kids in HL really struggle to stay afloat.</p>

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<p>If he wants to major in religious studies he should take IB World Religions if his school offers it. It is a great class and not too incredibly difficult either (HL and SL)</p>

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<p>thanks bethyy -- he is really torn. World Religions is only offered SL and the other class is Peace and Conflict Studies (also SL). It would make sense for him to take World Religions if he is interested in majoring in that -- but he has already taken multiple upper level college classes in Religious Studies, so I really don't think he could learn anything is he took the class. On the other hand -- it would make it an easy class. Both options are supposed to be great, both teachers are supposed to be great and both classes take a 10 day field trip to Palestine/Israel during the second year. I suggested he wait to decide which class to take once he gets there -- they have an orientation period where they can make final decisions.</p>

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<p>hsmomstef - Sounds like your son's school's IB program is very different than my S's. Based on pretty much no expertise, I'm going to suggest that you defer to the school's advice. If your son does well in what ever classes he takes, colleges will be impressed by his accomplishments. I don't think chem vs. environmental science will be an issue. Colleges will probably be evaluating the school itself and how your son performs in that environment. There are no "slacker" classes in an IB program. Have him take clases that fit in his schedule and excite him - it will show.</p>

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<p>First of all: students at IB World Schools are not required to take more than 3 HL's and 3 SL's because that is the requirement for the IB Diploma (+ TOK, CAS and the Extended Essay). However, a good choice of IB subjects is crucial if your son wants to go to Yale, Princeton, UChicago or other top schools. </p>

<p>Languages: It is pretty obvious that English is his first language, therefore, he should take ENGLISH A1 HL, mainly a Literature course. If he speaks an additional language as good as English, he should also try to take that language in A1 or A2. Whereas the A2 course is a fun and interesting mixture of Literature and cultural awareness, the A1 course is entirely Literature.
All in all, i would recommen him to take English A1 HL and his second best language at A2 HL or B HL.(Ex. Spanish A2 HL). AB Initio SL languages are a simple introduction to the language. Remember: Language is one of the tools we use to learn so as from my view they should be taken in HL. </p>

<p>Individuals & Societies: as you said he wants to take Economics HL and Geography HL... also i read something about World Religions SL and P&C SL.
I have to acknowledge that this choice of subjects is great. However, i would choose only 1 HL from this group (Economics HL, I LOVED IT!!). Furthermore, World Religions and P&C are allways offered at SL, thus, not counting for credit at college. Although his intended major is World Religions i wouldn recommend to take it... I would personally recommend him to take Economics HL and Geography SL as a substitute of the Arts Subject. </p>

<p>Experimental Sciences: Enviromental Systems SL (ALWAYS SL), is a good subject and, as far as i am concerned he shouldn't be preassured to take Chemistry HL nor Chemistry SL.
If he has taken Physics or Biology before at his school, he may also consider Physics SL or Biology SL.</p>

<p>Mathermatics (& Computer Science): Here comes the problem. The other day, i was looking at McGill's univ. entrance requirements. For all BA's and B.Sc.'s requiering Math, Math.Studies SL was not accpetable. This is a probles since your son is not a Math lover. Nevertheless, considering the top schools he is aiming at, he should consider at least Mathematics SL: former Math.Methods SL. Math.Methods SL is a great course very similar to Math HL, but without the options and the college credit, but it is views by the ivies as a good course. </p>

<p>Resuming... from my view and considering his interests, he should take...</p>

<p>English A1 HL
an A2 / B HL
Economics HL
Physics SL / Biology SL / Env. Systems SL
Mathematics HL (ideal) / Math.Methods SL
Geography SL</p>

<p>I got a 44 on the IB Diploma in a The British Schools in Montevideo Uruguay (shouth america) on May 2006. I took</p>

<p>English A1 HL
Spanish A1 HL
Economics HL
Biology SL
Mathematics HL
Philosophy SL</p>

<p>I hope it helps.</p>

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<p>Hsmom, It's been some time since my son was in high school, so my memory of the IB jargon might be a bit fuzzy, but my son's experience had some similarities. </p>

<p>The major difference was that he was allowed to take one year each of SL math and science. He did math something (I can't remember which it was methods or studies -- the easier one) and environmental science in his junior year and didn't take any math or science in his senior year. He did three HLs + an SL language ab initio + a selection of non-IB courses, all social studies oriented. We were told this was admissions suicide but in fact he was admitted to a very selective LAC.</p>

<p>My son also had two years each of two different languages. His reason for doing this was completely different from your son's motivation to do Arabic. Arabic is a HOT language these days so I can't imagine it being viewed as a negative.</p>

<p>If I understand you correctly, your son is signed up for two years with the same schedule: SL math, science, Arabic + HL English, Economics, Geography. He wants to take a 7th course the first year in his area of interest. </p>

<p>Academically, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't do this as it doesn't seem that his SL courses will be too challenging; but I would tend to advise him to focus on his extracurricular activitis instead -- either adding a new activity or going into more depth into an existing one. Being in a new environment will be exhilarating and exhausting and three HL courses will be *very *writing intensive -- so don't overlook the need for some fun or physical activity. </p>

<p>The second year he'll have TOK and his extended essay to write (plus those college applications) so I'd say that 6 courses should be enough.</p>

<p>In my opinion your son will have no problem getting into selective colleges with this kind of course load plus this kind of life experience. Of course his grades and SAT/ACT scores will be key, but the lack of equal focus on math & science and the lack of continuity in language is compensated by intensity in other areas. I think you are aware that his IB scores will not impact American college admissions (though they may help him place out of introductory courses) so the major focus will be grades and the usual admissions criteria.</p>

<p>I would also think that the most prevalent indicator of admissions success would be how other graduates of this school have fared at colleges you mention. The counseling staff should be able to give you specific information.</p>

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<p>i like how a lot of parents on this forum likes to post.....
if anything, the student should come up here and ask or go to his hs and ask.
what's the point that the parents plan it out for the students? it's tolerating him/her to leave decisions to others!</p>

<p>considering he's a rising senior, he should have the knowledge to go look up the school's website, check out the courses, and match it with ibo.org, and then come to CC and check out past threads (or post a thread for help)</p>

<p>SICK of parents being overprotective and their child never grows up</p>

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<p>i will respond in backwards order, since screwthepc has such an issue - </p>

<p>screwthepc -- my son doesn't spend his time posting on this board and has not desire to -- he has better things to do with his time. I enjoy learning and enjoy the camaradarie. I read this board mostly to get info on FA, but when one of my sons has a question they want me to ask, I post. He has checked everything out and just wanted some other opinions. I am far from overprotective -- he will be attending his last two years in high school in another country, so I think it should be obvious that he is an independent person. </p>

<p>momrath -- correct, all classes are two years long -- even the world religions and peace and conflict one. I think (I am not sure) that the SL subjects only meet twice a week for two years. It is a really different system than what we are used to in the US! He is definitely going to jump headfirst into ECs and activities -- they have many that line up well with his current interests and ECs. The school has excellent placement -- about 40% end up at ivies or oxbridge -- so they must know what they are doing.</p>

<p>Alfuru -- great information! He really would like to take a foreign language as an HL (he is taking English A1 HL) but he can't. They only offer Arabic as an SL ab initio and any other language he took he would also just be starting. It isn't the best answer -- but he wants to stick with Arabic. </p>

<p>So -- that means he has to add another HL subject and that is where geography comes in. The math that he would take is that middle level math -- not the lowest level. I think they renamed it this year to Math SL (and then Math Methods is a lower level class). I don't think he is prepared well enough for Math HL -- he just finished Algebra II and is weak in Geometry. Math HL is a killer if you aren't prepared, from what I understand. he spoke with some other kids who tried Math HL and had to drop it to SL because they weren't ready.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
correct, all classes are two years long -- even the world religions and peace and conflict one

[/quote]

Then I would not attempt to add a 7th course. In Year 2 TOK, the extended essay plus his college applications will be more than enough additional challenge.</p>

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<p>that is something he has to think about -- you may be right. I will have him do some checking and see if TOK is taught just one year or both or how it is done and see when the extended essay is due. he will be doing his extended essay on some religious topic and I don't think that will be as hard as it might be for some kids since he has an extensive knowledge in the subject and has already written several papers for his upper level college classes. he hasn't written any as long as 5,000 words -- I think his longest was 4,000 words -- but he is excited to get started writing, so I have a feeling he will be working on it all along. he isn't as excited to write college application essays -- so that will be a challenge for him.</p>

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<p>I haven't checked what your IB school offers, and our offerings are a bit limited as we are a new IB program.....but here is a thought: </p>

<p>As a humanities kid, doubling up on the sciences to avoid the fine arts would be ugly....IF your school offers IB drama HL, you should ask your son to look at the curriculum. My daughter is also a humanities person. Her IB drama (HL) course is not an acting course - its a great combination of the history of drama, expression, and the technical aspects of expression via theater. </p>

<p>With the history and religion you son has had, plus the TOK he will have, the drama overlaps and might provide a new layer of understanding familiar topics ..... all in all, he (and you) should try to read the curriculum for the classes you are considering - and encourage him to let the IB program stretch beyond his comfort zone.</p>

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<p>something no one has addressed, so here goes, the college list, is very narrow is scope and are long shots for the best IB student on the planent, so to focus so much on that end and not the interests of the student is a mistake, to do otherwise with lead to stress, heartache, etc</p>

<p>so whether its mom or son posting, they need to not make a plan in HS to just get into an Ivy or the like</p>

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<p>good advice! I really wish they offered an Art History HL class -- that would really, really introduce something new and incorporate religion (since almost 100% of art was religion oriented before the last 200 years) and history. </p>

<p>they really don't have much beyond a brief description of the course (like 2 sentences) so that doesn't help. He doesn't know what the syllabus, textbook, class schedule, expectations, etc will be. It makes it tough to kind of just guess.</p>

<p>He isn't thinking of doubling up on science -- but he wants to double up on HL social studies classes (econ HL and geography HL).</p>

<p>One good thing about his school -- the first two week are an orientation where he gets to check out different classes. he does have to submit his initial choices this week -- but he can change if he wants to. I just think it might be hard to really know whether a class is a perfect fit in just two weeks.</p>

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<p>citygirlsmom -- that isn't his whole college list, just the top schools, with the idea that if he has what it takes to get into the top he has what he needs to get into the others. He just wants to make sure that he doesn't "mess up his chances" when he picks his classes since he is locked in for two years.</p>

<p>Also -- he isn't a freshman. He will be 18 this fall with three years of high school behind him -- he is repeating senior year because he wants the IB diploma. The kids going to his new school are all older and also repeat one or two years of high school. He has very definite ideas on what he wants to do in school (and life) and while that might change a little, I have a feeling that he will stay on course. The schools he has picked are well known for what he is interested in -- Arabic, International Relations and Religious Studies. He had pretty much narrowed his list down because if he hadn't gotten into this school he would have been applying to schools this fall.</p>

<p>I am trying to make sure he keeps a variety of schools in mind</p>