Looking for objective data sources that quantify the relationship between school name

College Search & Selection
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<p>Can you point me to some objective data sources that quantify the relationship between a school’s “name brand” and placement into professional jobs? Everybody knows that a degree from Harvard will get you job interviews that a degree from the local community college will not.<br>
However, it is difficult to create a formula in Excel for “Everybody knows”. And I need the data for less obvious comparisons—a list of schools one down from the Harvards or one up from the CCs (and everything in between).</p>

<p>What data can be used to value the name/reputation of a school with respect to job placement? How can I differentiate the success of graduates from school “A” from those of school “B” in landing the plum jobs in their respective fields? Where is the line where hiring managers actually care where your degree came from more than your GPA?</p>

<p>If possible, would prefer to focus on employment rather than grad school. However, I am open to creating line items for both on my spreadsheet. And if it is simply impossible to differentiate schools with respect to job placement then I could use grad school as a proxy if that data is available?</p>

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<p>Yield is a rough proxy for how “hot” a college is (lower=hotter). Employment is tougher to come by than grad school. NSF has tons of data on doctoral degree recipients including their baccalaureate institution. NSF also has some data on employment in STEM fields, so that might help if you’re willing to restrict yourself to that sector.</p>

<p>One thing that’s difficult about attributing employment to undergraduate school’s “name brand” is that so very many professionals have graduate degrees, so you have to figure out how to tease out the impact of the undergraduate brand vs. the graduate brand.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>What kind of professional jobs are you talking about? In my area, DeVry advertises that it places graduates into most Fortune 500 companies (or something like that). However, we know that there is a big difference between doing clerical work for a Fortune 500 and being a CEO of a Fortune 500.</p></li>
<li><p>From what I’ve seen from my peers, getting a good job after graduation has a lot to do with the individual’s initiative rather than the name of the school. My peers who devoted time throughout their senior year to networking, interviewing, and finding leads all have jobs, and those who put off the job search until June are still looking. To a certain extent it seems to me that getting the good job has a lot more to do with persistence and your previous experience than it does with the name of the degree. If you’ve proven yourself as capable, responsible, experienced, interested, and have a track record of success, are people really going to care that you got a degree at School A and not School B?</p></li>
<li><p>Tiny College (I can promise you you haven’t heard of it, and if you have, you could figure out where I live far too easily) has two alumni who are CEOs of famous companies. TC champions these two alumni to no end. If you had no access to data on TC’s admissions statistics (59% accepted, 550-650 SAT midrange per subject) you might think that TC is incredible, when it’s really more middle-of-the-pack. If you look at TC’s high-power alumni, though, you’ll see that both have MBAs, one from NYU and one from Harvard. So did they get their great jobs because of TC’s extremely regional fame, or because they’re smart people who have prestigious b-school degrees?</p></li>
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<p>So I think the role that the college plays in employability is a very small one, at best. It’s really the student who makes the difference.</p>

4

<p>Thank you for responding.</p>

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Agreed. I am referring to the professional jobs that most people think of when they hear the term “professional” job (i.e. not clerical work). The kind of jobs that people go to good 4-year schools to obtain. Accountants, engineers, analysts, programmers, marketing, strategy, communications, etc. If you are truly unclear on the type of jobs that I am referring to, I can try to find some kind of a representative list online somewhere.</p>

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I’m looking for more than a few data points or anecdotal stories.</p>

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Agreed. However, if you have two people with the same level of initiative, networking, etc., etc., etc. then the name of the school will matter to the hiring manager as he has no other differentiating data. Most resumes get a scan of about 10 seconds. </p>

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Again, no disagreement that there are tons of anecdotal stories floating around and exceptions to the rules (i.e. the guy that started FedEx), etc.
However, I am interested in more statistically valid data about the population of schools as a whole.</p>

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Agreed. However, as a hiring manager (and especially in this economy), I can tell you that it is pretty easy to find candidates that possess every quality on a very detailed job description/requirements list. And that all interview well. And that all seem to have good attitudes and good chemistry with the team. So, differentiation becomes difficult. I believe that school brand name can make a difference in deciding who gets the interview or who gets to the second round of interviews (if nothing else just the alumni network can make a big difference). I am just not sure which schools have brand names that make a difference. Or more specifically how to measure the difference that one school brand name has over another in facilitating professional job placement.</p>

5

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<p>I think this depends very much on the industry, the person doing the hiring, and which part of the country you’re in. For example: around here, having gone to Penn State can be a huge boost because of their very extensive alumni network. But in other places (particularly on the east coast) or in certain fields, an Ivy League degree will carry more weight.</p>

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<p>I don’t think you can, other than anecdotally.</p>

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<p>You need to check out the career development centers are the respective schools and see which companies are coming directly to campus to interview kids. </p>

<p>Something to keep in mind though, even if you go to HYPS, if you aren’t good no one is going to hire you still. So going to those schools isn’t enough, you have to do well.</p>

7

<p>My caveat about DeVry was probably something you already anticipated. Published figures like percent of student employed within 6 mos of graduation, a list of companies that recruit at the school’s career fairs, or even starting salaries is not the best way to evaluate a school’s long-term employment “value.”</p>

<p>My caveat about TC was to make you aware that colleges will do what they can to suggest that a degree from them will lead to fame and fortune.</p>

<p>As far as the hiring manager spot check, I see what you mean. You want to have a name on a degree that means something. But some important questions: where is the hiring manager? in what industry? is the hiring manager really doing the hiring? And is it the most important part of the application? For one competitive internship position at a specific competitive magazine, the person in charge of hiring interns (not a hiring manager) told me that degree and GPA meant nothing next to our writing samples. I have no idea whether that would apply to ALL journalism, but I can tell you if I had to hire a journalist, I’d look to samples and toss the resume in the garbage. Same with an art director-- I’d look at their portfolio first and be mildly curious is they were a RISD, MICA, Savannah, or College I’ve Never Heard Of.</p>

<p>I’m very sympathetic with your search, so I suggest seeking out a few data points that might be easier to come by:</p>

<p>– Where alumni live after graduation-- it’s good to know whether alumni tend to stay local to the state or college or whether they spread out to cities like DC, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Boston. It would serve as a proxy for how well known the school is nationwide.</p>

<p>– Alumni giving rate as a proxy for how active, involved, and happy the alumni are with their experience and a proxy for how willing they would be to help a current student out.</p>

<p>– Knowing what the school’s most popular programs are and what students there tend to want to do with their lives. I’ve learned tons from reading alumni notes-- the trick is getting your hands on a copy of the alumni magazine. Call up the alumni office and ask for a copy? Unscientific, yes, but better than nothing. </p>

<p>Hopefully these data will help!</p>

8

<p>Not a perfect proxy but probably close to what I am looking for.
[Top</a> US Colleges Salary Statistics](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp]Top”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp)</p>

<p>Obviously, not perfect. I will guess that it does not take into account graduate school–which could clearly bias the data. However, this survey does seem pertinent.</p>

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<p>^ The Payscale rankings deliberately exclude alumni who have earned graduate degrees. You are seeing the starting and mid-career salary averages for those with terminal Bachelors degrees. Refer to the “Payscale Methodology” link.</p>

<p>You may find it interesting to sort on the starting salaries, then on the mid-career salaries, to observe the change in the schools at the top.</p>