Looking for pre-med advice for international students to make college decision (UNC, UIUC, etc...)

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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Dear College Confidential members,

I desperately need your insight in choosing a school for my undergraduate studies (Please read the last paragraph before sharing information). I am considered an international student although I have lived in the US for a long time and will be graduating from a US high school.

I got into the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (out of state), the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign (out of state), Saint Louis University, Case Western Reserve University, Baylor University, and the University of Washington.

I hope to go to medical school in the future, but based on recent research I read that it is almost impossible for international students to get into medical school in the US (if you have more information regarding this please let me know). My current dilemma is whether I should attend a school like UIUC where I would major in Engineering Physics to have a solid backup in case medicine does not work out for me, or if I should go to a school like UNC that has superior premed resources and research opportunities. Here are my thoughts:

UIUC: Great career backup with engineering physics from reputed engineering department, high cost (60,000 per year; but from talking to students I’m pretty sure I can bring the cost down to 45000 per year from the second year), low-quality medical opportunities like volunteering and shadowing due to a lack of good medical school and clinics, high quality research (but only undergraduate research, not much medical school research), close to home; at the end of undergrad, I will have no money left for medical school and will have to take loans for medical school). I think I can get into the honors program quite easily. Poor med school advising.

UNC: Excellent premed resources and research as it one of the top schools for medicine, unsure of career backup (is the physics major from UNC valuable or should I major in something like public health where I can apply for a dual degree and get master’s in one year if accepted?), I have yet to apply to honors program (unsure of difficulty of getting into the program, sort of high cost (50,000 per year, which means I will have no money left for med. school and will have to take out loans for medical school), very reputed school which may help me in medical school admissions especially as an international student, excellent research (research triangle etc.) and amazing medical school and clinic volunteering opportunities, very far from home.

SLU: Very, very, very poor career backup. I am thinking of majoring in a medicine-related major; not very reputed. However, lots of premed and research opportunities due to proximity to WashU medical school and SLU medical school. Lots of clinics nearby. I was accepted to the medical scholars program which gives me a guaranteed interview at SLU medical school, however I cannot apply to other medical schools if I get into theirs and to attend their medical school, I would need to show that I have 210,000 dollars in my account before even entering. Comparatively low cost (30,000 per year, which I hope to bring down to 23,000 per year by commuting from home the last two years). I would be able to save about 120,000 dollars for medical school but I don’t know how much value that has as most medical schools need me to show proof of funds of at least 200,000 dollars, and going to SLU may not give me an advantage for medical school admissions (as A) I would lose my seat at SLU medical school and B) I would be applying from a less reputable college when compared to UNC) (Please remember that college reputation matters for med school admissions for ME because I am an international student). Lastly, I got into the honors program at SLU. I know the area pretty well so I have a head start on opportunities etc.

Case Western: Too expensive (60,000 per year with scholarships. I still need to hear back about need-based aid, so that may factor in later). I don’t know if this is a good career backup (let me know what you think).

Baylor: Pretty inexpensive about 30,000 per year; average research and I don’t know much medical opportunities here. I don’t know if it’s a good career backup. Ver, very far from home.

Any information on these topics will also be MUCH appreciated:

  1. Process of getting into medical school for international students (literally any information would help)
  2. UIUC’s medical resources/opportunities
  3. Value of UNC Physics degree/other degrees like public health dual degree in the job market.
  4. Should I give up on pre-med as an international student?
  5. Can I maintain a great GPA (above 3.9) as a physics major at UNC? I am HIGHLY motivated.

Last paragraph:

I know the general consensus for pre-meds is to go to the cheapest school. However, please keep in mind that I am an international student and the only medical schools that will accept some international students/give aid are the top 10 (Harvard, Yale, etc…). Therefore, research opportunities and undergrad college prestige play a huge role in my acceptance to any medical school. Any information you can give me means a LOT to me and I greatly appreciate it!!!

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  1. International applicants to med schools are highly disadvantaged. Only about 40-45 US med schools say they will consider international applicants. In practice most of those accept 0 international students/year. The med schools that typically accept 5 or more internationals tend to be private and among the most competitive schools in the US.

Internationals need higher GPAs and higher MCAT scores than do domestic students. International applicants are placed in a separate admission pool and only compete against other international students for a very limited number of admission slots.

Last year only 129 international students in total matriculated into all US medical schools combined. It’s estimated about 85% of those 129 were Canadian applicants.

The second barrier international student face is financing their medical education. There is basically no financial aid for internationals. International students are required to prove that they can pay the full cost of their medical education before they are allowed to enroll. This proof typical takes the form of either letter of guarantee from your home country government saying they will pay 100% of your COA for med school; or depositing up to 4 years of the COA into a escrow account in a US bank. (Expect to be asked to put up to $250,00-$400,000 into a bank to pay your anticipated educational & personal expenses.)

NOTE–even those schools that do provide aid to international med students, do not give 100% funding to internationals. Internationals will need to find some supplemental funding sources. Med students cannot work during med school. Internationals are not eligible for US federal student loans. You will need to get loans in your home country OR have a US citizen who is willing to cosign a loan for you.

Additionally, finding a medical residency after completing a US medical education has becoming increasingly complicated due to severe cut backs on the number of J1 and H1B visas being issued by the US State Dept. Most residencies simply do not sponsor visas. (Too much paperwork. Also recent lengthy delays in processing visas have prevented many internationals from starting residency on time. Hiring internationals has become too big of a risk for residencies because of the likelihood of starting the year understaffed. Having a resident start late, requiring extra supervision and being behind in their clinical skills is another big issue that residencies don’t want to deal with.)

2)UIUC–there is a medical school in Urbana (Carle Illinois COM) and clinical volunteer opportunities at Carle Clinic which within walking distance of the engineering campus. if you have transportation (i.e. a car), you can contact clinics and hospitals in some of the smaller towns in central IL. Decatur, Danville, Bloomington. (I used to commute from Urbana to Danville daily to work when I lived in CU. In good weather, it’s not a bad drive.)

  1. UNC physic program is fine, but not world class.

However, your issue will be finding an employer who is willing to sponsor you for a visa post college graduation. In order to apply for a visa your employer must demonstrate that there is literally no US citizen capable of performing your job duties. This is a very high bar and it’s unlikely that with only a BA/BS or even a MPH you will find a job that fits this description.

  1. I hate to tell people to give up on a dream, but the odds are really stacked against you. Engineering is a much safer option…

  2. I don’t know you and I don’t what kind of academic preparation or work ethic you have so there’s no way I can guess if you’ll be successful at UNC.

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Thank you so much for your response! I greatly appreciate that you gave me such detailed information that will definitely help me make a decision.

4

I literally created an account to reply to you. TBH I’m in the exact same situation as you but I graduated high school and am in a low prestige college now. Some of what way out west mom said is true but some of it wasn’t. The fiance portion is true but the immigration is sketchy. Even though a little are old, read the links below since rules barely change in immigration unless its canceling visas or slowing acceptances. If you are already in the US then look into a way to get your permanent resident or you will have to find an employer to sponsor you, get the gc (hopeful you are from a country with less applicants), and apply for whatever to improve your chances. I’m pretty confident in myself and not going that route. I might fly too high and burned. I don’t care, there isn’t another option for me. Plus I did a quick google search and Residencies do take immigrants but I don’t know how often, its not impossible. This has been much of a learning experience for me as it is for you. I may be wrong but it doesn’t really matter since I know people who will do, are doing, and have done the same exact thing. This is not meant to completely deny what the previous person has said but to build off of. My evidence and response is not in this statement but in the links, read them and you will get a better understanding of what im sa

The last one is a warning and there is some hope at the bottom of the article.

  1. https://resident360.nejm.org/expert-consult/applying-for-residency-as-an-international-medical-graduate

  2. https://www.voanews.com/student-union/can-international-students-attend-american-medical-school

Unallowed links removed
ED

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@Premedwannabe77

RE: Your sources

2 is not about internationals who have earned a US medical degree, but for Internationals who have earned their degree in their home country and wish to apply to the US for residency.

5 is also about medical graduates who have completed their medical education in their home country.

This is not the OP’s situation.

RE: Visa issues. Processing time for visas has increased in the last 3 years, particularly for applicants from certain countries.

FREIDA --the AMA database of residency programs-- will show which programs will accept non-US citizens and which visa programs they sponsor.
Registration required to access FREIDA.


The OP's main issue will be getting a US medical school acceptance. That will be the biggest bottleneck, followed by finding financing for med school. 

The number of international students accepted to US medical schools is tiny.
<a href="https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-4.pdf">https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-4.pdf</a>

Canadian citizens are disportionately represented in that number since the Canadian government guarantees loans to its citizens who are attending medical schools in the US. Canadians are exempted from the financial proof requirements by medical schools. 

The second issue will finding the money to pay for their medical education. 

Internationals are not eligible for US student loans--which is how most domestic students pay for  their medical education. The OP will need either a large reserve of cash or a US citizen/permanent resident who is willing to co-sign private loans for them and whose financial status allows them to qualify for huge unsecured loans. 

Only a dozen US medical schools offer any type of financial aid to international applicants--all of them are among the competitive med schools in the country.  None of them meet 100% of need.
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Thank you so much for both of your responses. In the past few weeks I have basically rethought my future career haha. I have decided that I will only apply to fully funded MSTP programs and also apply to PhD programs as a backup. If I truly have the talent, I should be able to get into an MSTP program and wouldn’t have to take out any loans at all, and if I don’t get in, I would go into research which I also tremendously enjoy.

Since in both cases, I won’t have any costs after undergrad, which college do you think I should attend? If I go to UNC, I wouldn’t have to go into debt but I would have to spend all my savings and if I went to SLU, I would have about $100,000 remaining in my savings after undergrad, although I wouldn’t need to use this money for grad school. Any opinions and ideas are greatly appreciated!

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@ethereals19

You have a BIG problem with your plan.

Internationals are not eligible for MSTP programs. Since MSTP programs are funded by the US government, only US citizens or permanent residents are eligible.

From the JHU MD/PhD website:

From Stanford’s MD/PhD website:

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How will you pay for MTSP.

Funding is for Citizens or green card holding permanent residents only.

This is amongst THE most highly competitive programs anywhere for anything.

You need a different plan.

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@ethereals19

Total number of international matriculants enrolled to ALL the MD/PhD programs in the entire US-- 11.

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-12/2019_FACTS_Table_B-9.pdf

NOTE: most non-MSTP MD/PhD programs are not fully funded programs. You will still need a source of outside funding to pay for your education.

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OP, it looks from another thread that you have been in the US since 2016. Do you have a path to citizenship or permanent residency?

You really do need to figure this out, because once you are done with your schooling, you won’t be able to work in the US for very long after your student visa expires.

Becoming a citizen, or obtaining permanent residency, will open up more educational opportunities as well…including med school or an MSTP.

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Thank you all for your advice. After thorough research, I have made a list of 12 MSTP programs that are able to fully fund accepted international students. If I do not get into any of these programs, I plan to do a PhD program after college. Since I am a STEM major, I can easily take an OPT after undegrad to get more research experience. Once again, I greatly appreciate all of your help and advice!

12

Could you provide that list?

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MSTP is a special type of MD/PhD program. Not all MD/PhD programs are MSTP. Do not use the terms interchangeably.

NIH–which provides the funding for MSTP programs-- rules prohibit any MSTP funding from being given to internationals.

There are a small number of MD/PhD program that do accept internationals and some of them will even provide funding.

If you look at the AMCAS data, only 11 internationals in total were accepted into all MD/PhD programs combined. That’s pretty terrible odds–and since you have not yet even started college, you have no idea if you will even be competitive for MD/PhD programs.

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Okay, thank you for the information.

15

Do you or your parents have a way for you to become permanent residents?
Otherwise, med school is probably not in the cards.
So, right now, everything that relates to med school needs to be forgotten.
Even OPT can be denied now, even to top-flight applicants (REALLY high level applicants: Harvard award, 3.8 GPA, prestigious fellowship, published research…) Hopefully this won’t apply 5 years from now but you can’t count on it.

My advice would be to pick either UIUC for Engineering Physics (better odds of OPT and doesn’t disqualify you from applying to med school if you get residency; they’re as good as UNC for med school advising actually) or SLU (because it’s cheap and you’re in the Honors Program) or Baylor (if you’re an conservative Christian; it’s well-known in Texas for its science program).
I would have advised Case Western if it’d been affordable, but you don’t qualify for financial aid if you’re not a permanent resident, so it’s not within budget.