As a Tiger myself, I’d have to say that for engineering I agree. 
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You really need to firm-up your budget. Is $80k/year doable? Will/can you do the same for siblings? CS is the great equalizer. There are probably only a handful of schools where you would/should consider paying full price and only if there’s no/minimal debt involved. MIT, Stanford, CMU…maybe a couple more.
How many safeties do you really need? Two should be good. After that most competitive CS programs are reaches or close to it. Even UIUC isn’t a slam-dunk for in-state.
If you’re near Chicago they have tons of direct flights to other cities. What’s the difference between a 5-10 hour car ride (or more) and a 2 hour flight? My sons would take flights everyday, all day. Especially if you can get scholarship money.
CWRU used to love demonstrated interest. I’m assuming they still do.
Isn’t there some type of midwest college exchange with other colleges? Might be worth a look for safeties. Iowa State, Missouri S&T, Ohio State, and Michigan State would probably be good safeties. I would think Purdue, Wisconsin, and Michigan would be on the list too. Not safeties but highly rated, close, and still less costly than CMU or Stanford, even for OOS students.
Your son sounds like one of our friend’s sons. Probably could’ve gone anywhere but didn’t care about applications. Applied to one school (Virginia Tech). Graduates this fall in CS.
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@tsbna44 you might be right, my thought process may be a bit scattered since I posted the thread last night. It is true, I’m willing to pay more for certain names than others. I really like how you put it “you have to play to find out”, so true.
@eyemgh you seem very experienced and it’s reassuring to hear you say that in CS and engineering opportunities are not limited to a short list of big name schools. Thanks for your insight. I’m not in this field so often worry that my kids would miss out if they don’t go to a top school.
@chmcnm We really don’t have a firm budget, it’s all about value (well, perceived value to be accurate). S22 is our younger child and we’ve been paying sticker price for his sister who will graduate from MIT next year.
My son should need only two safeties. Sounds like everyone agrees Michigan State should be one and he should get merit $ too, only downside is notification is in January. The other safety with notification before Christmas might be UPitt, Iowa, or Iowa State. Looks like our choices here are fairly limited given my constraints of location and preference for name recognition lol.
UIUC, Purdue, and Ohio State should be his matches. I feel that he be rejected by all three of these is super slim, or am I being too optimistic? High stats Asian male going for CS, the dreaded ORM…
This post sounds like I’m thinking out aloud. I really appreciate everyone’s feedback and suggestions.
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Since you say I may be right…to quote Billy Joel…I may be crazy 
There are so many great schools - and what worries me is - you are throwing out names you’ve heard of. Iowa, Iowa State, Michigan State, etc.
What if you find out your son doesn’t want super large? That’s why we listed other schools - from Dayton to Missouri S&T to Bradley to CWRU.
If your son wants to be at a big state school, with big sports, greek, etc. then go for it. But what if he’s overwhelmed.
All these schools will have fantastic stats. Just because you haven’t heard of them - so many are wonderful and might provide a different environment/experience and great placement. That’s part of your issue - you are looking for a school you’ve heard of. However, there are “focused” schools that you haven’t heard of such as Rose Hulman, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Illinois Institute of Technology, Missouri S&T, Dayton - that will provide your son a wonderful education and wonderful opportunities.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with your list. I’m simply saying, other than - people across the country will recognize the name, it seems to lack criteria.
It’s time for your son to engage in the conversation, take a few weekend trips to at least scout out different campus sizes, and get moving. He needs to find a school he can be comfortable at, not just one you’ve heard of. I promise you - the hiring managers know about all these schools. And today, with online recruiting, so much happens over the net anyway - and it’s becoming the great equalizer for kids from lesser schools.
btw - @chmcnm is dead on with travel…as I pointed out. Guess what - your son is going to college. Let him go…if you have it down that he can come home this or that week, etc., he’ll never grow into the experience. If the right school is a 2 or 3 hour flight away…so what?
Nonetheless, good luck - and i hope you open your mind to other great schools that might be the right fit. If your son is lacking motivation, perhaps a big flagship is the wrong thing for him and a smaller school with personalization might be better.
Good luck.
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Opportunities aren’t limited, but CS and Engineering aren’t equal. For example, MEs with a BS from MIT, Cal Poly and Kettering average $79K, $74K, and $80K respectively at 2 years post-graduation. CSs from the same schools average $128K, $124K and $77K. There are probably several reasons. Cal Poly grads largely work on the West Coast where wages are high. MIT CS grads work West and Upper East where wages are high, but also a significant number end up in finance where wages are REALLY high. Kettering grads work mostly in the automotive industry. My suspicion is that CS wages aren’t as high as they are on the coasts.
That said, the quest of the original post was highly restrictive, CS safeties that you can hit with a rock from Illinois. CS safety anywhere is a heavy lift. 
UIUC at instate tuition and average 2 year salary of $101K is the no brainer value play if he gets in, which he probably will.
If you’re willing to be full pay, want to look at reaches AND your son is willing to be further from Illinois, I’d look at Harvard, Penn, Stanford, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, MIT, Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon and Cal Poly. CMU has the highest salaries followed by HMC. Cal Poly is the value play though. At $47K/yr OOS, with median earnings of $124K at 2 years. It’s a good deal. That’s $120K cheaper than MIT even full pay from OOS. It was even a better deal when my son went, $38K/yr. He got job offers on both coasts. It is highly competitive (5000 applications for 170 admissions last year), but it is objective. If he applies, make sure to read the application carefully. There are a few things that hang students up, especially from OOS.
Again, salaries aren’t everything, but they are objective. At the end of they day you’re investing in your student’s ability to thrive.
Your son needs to get into the game though so that he can decide what experience he wants. He has a huge advantage regarding MIT, because his sister can tell him what she loves and what she hates. Be aware though that the hate list only gets fully developed at one school, the one students attend. They ultimately see all the warts. Take any negativity from her in stride.
Search for fit. Good luck!
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Those doing the hiring of engineers and CS grads know all the schools. Your neighbor or barber or aunt might not know Missouri S&T but engineers do.
When my daughter interviewed, the interviewers knew her school, Florida Tech. Many don’t realize it is a private school (and many don’t realize Colorado Sch of Mines is public), but it doesn’t really matter. All the interviewers wanted to talk about was her playing lacrosse. I think it also helped that she was female as that’s still a little less popular in civil engineering and still helpful for their hiring statistics.
So pick whatever school he wants - big, small, D1 or D2, city or suburban, expensive or bargain. Does he want to do internships/co-ops? Does he want to be involved in big competitions? Does he want to take 5-6 years (because of the co-op requirement) or get done as quickly as possible?
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You beat me to it. The honors program at MSU is actually outstanding and comes with basically instate tuition for oos, research and mentorship, $5,000 study abroad stipend and probably a free t-shirt.
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So your missing an obvious UIC. It has a great program. They just spent tons of money on CS /engineering. It’s local and kids love it. I live in Chicago. Built new dorms New building for computer science department coming to East Campus | Computer Science | University of Illinois Chicago
Should get merit also like lots of it. For free tuition but you won’t like the location but kids get jobs at Microsoft, Google etc https://www.iit.edu/
UIUC is not a match for CS. Crazy competitive but your instate so that’s good. If your from a feeder school then that helps also. My son’s school definitely was.
Iowa State is a great school safety or not and yes you will get in with merit quickly. I always tell people if it was in Ann Arbor… Lol (my son went to Michigan for engineering and just graduated), tons of people from the Burbs go to Iowa, Iowa state, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Purdue.
BTW - I am not concerned about your son’s lack of motivation. Mine wasn’t unmotivated but just had his own way of doing things like waiting to the last hour to push send… Agh… Pro parent tip : send links of schools your interesting to discuss with him. Some kids do need a jump start. Also boys mental maturity takes a bit longer for some kids. But for engineering and especially CS if he’s not willing to work much harder then he is now and out serious time into it many kids with your sons stats don’t make it through. Gotta have that determination and persistence also.
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It’s actually pretty substantial the amount of kids that don’t make it through the 4 years.
According to one study, in engineering, 40% change their major the first year and 60% at some point. I saw another study that said 50% change.
I noticed that with my son- he got his a$$ kicked at Alabama after being straight As in HS with a 34 ACT. Yet he’s got a 3.7 GPA and many that started with him are now in business or other majors.
So it doesn’t just require a great record getting in…but then you have to be crazy dedicated and talented to survive.
I worry every day my son calls.
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Your speaking to the choir… Lol. My son just graduated Michigan engineering. He used to tell me after his first quiz /midterm that kids left stating “no longer going to be an engineer /doctor”… Some classes thinned out quicker then others… Even at the easier to get into Iowa State. Easy to get into but hard to make it through…
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Your sons stats are really good. I can’t see how he wouldn’t get into UIUC, or Purdue. You could also try Wisconsin. For a safety, Iowa State is very good for Engineering. Maybe U of MN?
One off the wall suggestion. University of Waterloo. Canadian schools don’t care about your race, and little about EC’s. Just grades and test scores. They are superb for CS and Engineering. Waterloo has an international reputation, and is known for it’s Co-op program and ties to Google.
I don’t think that your son will have any trouble getting into some really good schools.
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As an out of state student not hitting the early action deadline at Ohio State really shuts him out of the best merit aid possibilities there. The full ride and full tuition merit scholarships for out of state students have their own early deadlines for supplementary essays which he’ll miss if he procrastinates.
You can use their net price calculator which will provide a guesstimate of their university National Buckeye and other university level merit scholarships which are likely (not guaranteed). It will not show College of Engineering and other department scholarships (which have a separate application, so read emails for instructions later when that window opens if he applies).
Btw, their early action gives you one of three possibilities by end of January (accepted, rejected, deferred to the regular admissions timeline) so you won’t necessarily have an answer by end of January.
Ohio State does not admit by major. He should be a shoo in for university admission itself as long as he meets the early action deadlines. From a general university admission it is certainly possible to schedule freshman introductory engineering and even some of the sophomore classes necessary to advance in the engineering curriculum. Most of the Junior/Senior level classes are reserved for the engineering majors.
For direct admission to their College of Engineering, they are looking for students that have already demonstrated they have the capacity to succeed. They did the “look to your left, look to your right” thing at my son’s orientation and told them to “get to know each other, we expect you to get through this together.” There are a lot of team projects, lots of tutoring resources, and helpful faculty.
The CoE has a First Year Engineering program where students can identify an engineering major they are interested in or not. Domestic students are all pre-majors. They have switched from minimum gpas to a more holistic approach for declaring/admission to major. Previously, CSE had a gpa threshold and no entry below their stated minimum gpa, but students could retake a class to boost their gpa and get in. There are three majors offered to study computer science by the cs department with different admission to major requirements.
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@BuckeyeMWDSG Thank you so much for the detailed info, so very helpful. Well, I’m not too worried about my son missing EA deadlines. He didn’t achieve his academic stats by waiting to the last minute to do what has to be done. His lack of motivation is in researching school options etc, and I attribute that to not stepping into school classrooms for almost 18 months and not able to have one single onsite college campus visit. Our HS just resumed in person learning this fall, so hopefully he will warm up to the this college application process. For now at least I’m doing the initial legwork for him.
I saw on the OSU website that EA round has two decision release date, Dec 10 and Jan 21. What does that mean? So some EA applicants will get a decision a month and half before the rest? Do people who apply super early (like before October) tend to get earlier notifications? Or is it the shoo in admits hear back early? Is this how OSU always do it or is this new wrinkle due to the pandemic?
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Much of this is probably contained above, but here’s another list from a 4.0/1st in class/1580 SAT/7 APs down, 5 this year/multi-AIME/blah, blah, blah… CS aspiring student:
MIT, CMU, Stanford. Cornell, Michigan, GA Tech, Purdue, UIUC, Maryland, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State.
Washington was on the list, but a 2.4% OOS admissions rate and not accepting the Common App took them off the list.
“Safety” is always an interesting topic. I’m sure some would argue none or few of the above are “safeties”. I’d say at least 5 have a 70% chance of being admitted, conservatively, so that’s 99.7%, safe enough for us. To your original question - applying to both Ohio State and Michigan State, I’d be stunned if both rejected him.
My older daughter just graduated Purdue MechE, admitted with a 3.78, 1400 SAT, typical ECs. The bar has moved slightly, but not significantly, so I’d say Engineering is very likely, and CS is likely.
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No, that’s far from a conservative assumption. In fact, it’s the most aggressive/overly optimistic assumption. You’re assuming admissions to the 5 colleges are fully uncorrelated (i.e. totally independent of each other with zero correlation between them). That’s never true. The real probability of admission to any one of the 5 colleges is somewhere between 70% (fully correlated with correlation coefficient of 1) and 99.7% (fully uncorrelated with a correlation coefficient of 0), since the actual correlation is always between 0 and 1.
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Timing of admission letters at Ohio State is random, there doesn’t seem to be any discernible pattern by stats, geography, or submission date*. I wouldn’t worry about timing. You can assume you’ll know by the regular decision timeline. If you find out early, you’ll end up having a longer wait for the full financial aid packages to post which come out in late March. There are some university level merit award letters that trickle out between those dates, but even the timing between acceptance and merit notification seems to be variable.
If you want an early safety, Miami University released their information to us in December last year. Oxford, OH is on the Amtrak route from Chicago and they are working to develop a stop. The engineering department is relatively new, but they are doing very well. Their honors college is very selective. Their merit aid is also very good.
*Last year it seemed like they were sticklers on the EA deadline that all materials needed to be received, so submit early so the high school doesn’t miss the deadline by submitting transcripts late.
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Yes, this is what an assistant director of admissions told us during our campus visit. If you apply well before the deadline, you get notified in December.
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I hope that happens this year. Kids last year were stressed when friends that submitted later heard back first.
Fwiw, my kiddo that heard in January actually received better merit than the ones that heard in December. 
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Not to upset anyone but I wouldn’t suggest Miami of Ohio for engineering especially for a high Stat kid. There are just better options out there. For some kids it’s a great school and have known kids that went there.
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That’s not a contradiction, just because you’re full pay doesn’t mean you can’t seek out value. There are many full-pay families here in the bay area that have kids at UCs exactly for that reason.
You probably should feel good about those three, high stats Asian kids in the bay area do fine with Purdue and UIUC, engineering and CS. OSU, not sure, hard to assume that’s not a safety, maybe your high school’s Naviance can shed light there.
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