For $25K per year per kid, if you can afford it and they want to go, and the programs they want are excellent at those schools, I would pay it and not look back. If you were going to be full pay, or it was going to be really tough financially, I wouldn’t feel bad about not paying. My son wanted to go to a 60K plus/year school, and I told him we simply couldn’t afford it. We did compromise and pay more than we’d budgeted for, because he was an outstanding HS student and got a pretty good scholarship. I do admit I am pretty frustrated with his performance at said expensive school, and I’ve taken to realizing I’m paying for more than just the academic education, because he certainly hasn’t taken advantage of all the opportunites he could/should have. Just another thing to consider.
50k per year is a lot of money, though. It’s worth really considering. It’s tough as I can’t imagine yes to one and no to the other regardless of alternative options. Out of fairness it seems like an all or nothing proposition.
i agree with 1214mom the $25K per year is still a good value so I would still consider those schools(assuming there are no loans in addition to the $25K). I would also eliminate the prestige factor and the big fish/ small fish thing because its really not that important. If money and prestige are removed from the equation where would they want to go?
@1214mom, thank you for the candid response. I think there is a lot of buyer’s remorse with expensive schools that people are just too embarrased to admit to. Let’s face it, we know full well that college costs are bloated beyond belief. As with anything else, i dont buy at full retail when the market is at it’s peak when there are better options available. The more i read these boards, the more convinced i am that there is a huge world of opportunity just below the elite tier where there is ample opportunity, academic challenge, and financial rewards for the right students.
@tennis83, you can’t eliminate the prestige factor as it is perceived at varying levels by everyone. Without the prestigious reputation, I wouldn’t even be lookimg for input. I’m convinced that their real interest in those schools is mostly about the prestige. They know that the other schools they are considering will offer plenty of challenge and opportunities.
Of the responses so far, several have said that if it’s affordable, they’d go for the big name school, but no one has made a very convincing argument yet as to why, other than brand recognition. I’m not convinced that either would end up better equipped to tackle the world at those schools. It’s a significant premium to pay for the possibility that they “might” have a better outcome. But keep the responses coming.
I have to say that the mentality of many parents on this site is so disheartening. Parents talk about not wanting their kids competing with other top kids so their solution is to send them off to a school without other kids who are as strong academically. Well parent, it is you and not your child,
who is looking at the child’s peers as competition and, no disrespect intended, but it is a bit pathetic. I know a lot of students at Cornell, and guess what. They are not all waiting in anticipation of competing with your child. Being surrounded with energetic, academic, fully engaged, motivated students is what Cornell is all about. Not competition. Sure, send your kid to the local community college where the student will be the “big fish in little pond” but most kids at Cornell aren’t in a pond at all. What’s with the baby boomers who are all jazzed up about their kids wanting to compete with those whose credentials don’t match up to their kids. Have you even entertained the idea that there are bright motivated students who enjoy collaborations and working side by side with your child? College isn’t all about getting into the next whatever. Nor is is all about nabbing grades or worrying about points and beating out the competition. How pathetic this generation of parents seems to be. And no, the academic vibe at a SUNY won’t compare to Wellesley or Cornell. Are you kidding?
What does not appear to have been stated is what you previously told them, before they made their application lists, what you are willing to contribute.
If you have not had the money talk before, then it is certainly much more difficult to have it now, after the kids have put in time on their applications and gotten excited about all of the wonderful schools that they got admitted to, such that telling them that they are too expensive could lead to a major let-down.
@lostaccount, did you even read my post? Good lord, we are hardly talking about community college here! They have several very bright friends who took that route for various reasons. If that was an option they were interested in, I would support them.
The girls have already met their peers who also won merit scholarships at the schools they are considering. Believe me, they are an extremely bright and talented bunch. There will be no shortage of brilliant minds to challenge them in class. And, as I said, we’ve never put the slightest pressure on them to get better grades or to beat out their competition, so your last point is completely misdirected. Whoever it is that inspired your rant, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree here.
I’m going to pull the "f-word"here. It has so much to do with fit. I always told my kids I’d pay for tuition, room and board at our state public (Maryland, which I consider to be a very good school). When I took my nerdy, Introverted, “all-AP,” but totally non-competitive kid to one of the “expensive” schools (RPI) he walked into an auditorium where there were maybe six other kids, most already students at that college. By the time I walked in a few minutes later, they were all talking like they’d been friends before this meeting. He just seemed comfortable. Because he got a big scholarship there, I could afford to pay for it. I was confident he would wind up majoring in something STEM, so it had everything he needed. Where he really wanted to go was Johns Hopkins, where he would have received no scholarship, and I see JHU as somewhat of a pressure-cooker, with lots of competition amongst pre-med hopefuls. I did not have any intention of paying 62k and counting, so he didn’t bother applying there. My other son, who is much more social/outgoing, never really wanted to go anywhere except Maryland, and he seems to be doing fine there (he’s a freshman). I view Maryland as a great fit for him. He went in as a business major, but was not 100%sure that’s where he’d finish, and UMD has many really strong programs in case he changes his mind. This son was offered an almost total ride at another school with a fabulous business school, but we didn’t think their other programs were as strong as UMDs. Sorry if I’m talking about myself too much, but I’m just trying to let you know how we waded through. I hope it helps.
OffTheyGo: Congrats to you and your kids. They have wonderful options … and I hate to say this, but it’s hard when you have such great options! But, at least they have them.
If you can afford the elite schools, great. My husband and I could not. My older son was a National Merit kid from a rural high school. He dreamed of the elite school and got into some. In the end, however, he took an offer to the U. of Alabama. What he found was this: There were several kids who were in his position. They got into the elite, but finances determined their final decisions. One roommate turned down Georgetown. He graduated with honors in two majors and now works in consulting in DC. Two former roommates are in excellent law schools. Another is in an outstanding med school. Another is getting his PhD in chemistry at Stanford (all paid, too). A good friend won all kinds of prestigious scholarships, and she is getting her PhD in engineering (all expenses paid) at Stanford. My son is at UVA Law on scholarship.
1214mom is right about “fit.” In the end, my son found the right fit, and so did his friends. All graduated without debt, so they could pursue further studies or looking for a job. No matter what schools your kids select, they will be successful, and that success will lead to more options.
We couldn’t afford the heavier price tags and we’d agreed going in that our kids would graduate debt-free. Result: we opted for the big fish little pond. There are plenty of motivated, smart, terrific kids at the little ponds. Yours will find their tribes no matter which university or college they select. If you intend to support or help your kids through grad school, then consider the heavier merit options. What a wonderful problem and good luck with your decision.
We kept it simple. The kids could attend any school they wanted to, with the COA of the private schools not being very different from one another, and the COA of public schools being about half as much. (This was some years ago.) Nobody here can or should be trying to make a decision for the OP. But if the difference in the parental contribution between the kids’ own clear first choice and the best alternative (their second choice?) was $25K per year, then we wouldn’t have regarded that as very substantial in the larger scheme of things.
Yes, $25K x 4 x 2 is a lot of money. But I get a sense (may be misreading the posts) that the OP can afford this, either via savings or current income, and wouldn’t be adding debt or requiring the kids to take out loans. That is the situation that we had, with two kids who were 3 years apart. Let them find the best fit, and we’d figure out how to pay. (We had some help from their grandparents.)
We set few ground rules: 1) you can major in anything; 2) you must finish in 4 years; 3) you can go to the best school you can get into, so apply to colleges that you think you would really like to attend, and after the results come in the decision is up to you. We thought that if there were to be any regrets later about choice of schools it should be the kids’ regret based on their decisions, and not their regrets based on our choices, or our regrets based on our choices Everything worked out very well for both kids. Excellent colleges that were very fit to their talents and interests.
OP, your first post set forth the pros and cons very well. I think you also know that if the high-prestige scholarships (such as the Chancellor’s scholarship you mentioned) often come with added perks and opportunities. It’s not just a big fish vs. small fish thing … it is a very big fish vs. small fish thing.
Assuming that your kids end up with the same goals that they started with, you’ve got one kid who is going to want to attend law school, and another kid who most likely is going to want to pursue a graduate degree, with possibly a couple of years racking up some experience first (something the schools like to see for an IR masters). Of course they may change their focus. So you might give some thought right now to whether or not you plan to contribute to graduate studies – and how paying $50K+/year for college right now will impact your ability to do that.
The greater prestige associated with Wellesley or Cornell is not a guarantee of anything. I’d strongly suggest that you take prestige or perceived academic quality off the table for a while, and have your kids make a list of pros and cons that focuses on specifics about the schools, their locations, & programs. I’ve got a kid who graduated from Barnard and a kid who graduated from a CSU. The Barnard kid got stronger academics, but the CSU kid had some amazing opportunities & experiences come his way. Both are ending up with the same graduate degree. Both are gainfully employed; CSU kid earns significantly more at the moment. Barnard kid was interested in IR & had a job in that field with a moderate salary when she first came out of school, but shifted directions.
My personal take: if you are the parent of a kid who is strongly academically oriented-- the type of kid who loves school and is likely to someday pursue a Ph.D. – the elite schools may offer a level of preparation that is worth paying extra for. If the kids’ career goals are more practically oriented – then going to the elite school is not particularly likely to result in a better long term outcome than going to a non-elite but respectable university. So that’s why I say your kids should focus on the actual programs offered: they might consider coursework requirements for likely majors, potential internship or research opportunities, strength and quality of faculty and course offerings in various departments, etc.
Follow the merit money - Cornell is over-rated, and not worth excessive debt. All I hear about Geneseo is the news is about excessive drinking - in a week you kid will have seen everything Geneseo has to offer.
You know you kids best and seem to think Pitt and UR would be perfect fits…trust your intuition and what they are telling you…and save some money to boot!
One comment on Calmom’s comment, which I think is very helpful. My advice to my oldest was that if he chose to pursue a PhD we wouldn’t be paying for it for the simple reason that if he’s really qualified for the program he will likely receive full financial aid (assistantships, fellowships). It’s a very different story for masters programs (JD, MBA, etc.). In the end, he didn’t attend grad school at all and has made a fine career without it, while his younger sib did earn an MBA, which cost an arm and a leg.
We are in a similar situation for son, a self motivated, strongly academic type Ph.D. Bound. My other son, still a junior, is also self motivated and highly academic but he has a more pragmatic attitude towards college. He wants it over with as soon as possible. I do see that different college trajectories are likely in store for them.
Thank you to the posters in this thread. This has been one of the best discussions I have read on school choice.
Wishing you all the best OP as you all navigate these decisions
If you and your daughters are only interested in Cornell and Wellesley for the “name,” and have no appreciation for the superior education and experiences those schools offer, then by all means don’t even think about them.
But do not try to convince yourself that there is no difference.
What you are saying here seems to be some combination of A) we really can’t afford to spend that much per kid and still pay for kid 3, and B) an incremental degree of educational quality is less important to me than the money, assuming that the education is “good enough.”
You also seem to want to convince yourself that being on campus with a host of intellectual peers is somehow a detriment. I find that very strange. Do your D’s “step all over” everyone else trying to be number one? If not, why would you assume that their intellectual peers would? This whole thing seems anti-intellectual to me.
I have to admit that I had never heard of Soka before this. Live and learn. What is UB?
If I read this correctly, D#1 has a full ride to Pitt’s Honors College. That definitely seems worth taking to me–although not for the reasons you use to put down Wellesley and Cornell–particularly if she is interested in environmental law and will have to pay for law school. D#2 also has some merit aid at Pitt as well as other schools and is interested in International relations. Right off the top, if she is in at Wellesley, it would be perfect for her. Is she accepted at Wellesley or Cornell or both, and if so, what would her COA be and how would it compare to her COA at Fordham /Richmond. Is she into the honors college at Pitt also, and do they not want to go to the same place?
If one takes a full ride, can you afford to pay the COA for the other one at C or W and still work things out for kid 3?
I just recently escaped a similar situation to what both of your daughters are experiencing, so I thought I’d share my story with you to maybe help you view this from another perspective.
Like both of your daughters, my app was reviewed extremely well by the colleges I applied to, and I even got into both of my reach schools with scholarships. That being said, the scholarships were very small and my family simply couldn’t afford to send both me and my twin brother to school for that much money. My brother had decided on a local non-flagship state university at this point with a price tag of ~20k/year, leaving me with about ~20k to play with.
My biggest piece of advice for you is to make it very clear what you can and cannot afford. My parents were very vague throughout the entire process and it caused a lot of unnecessary drama. If you cannot afford Cornell and Wellesley, tell them upright. My parents did this with me after I begged them to do so and it led me to a school that I love with a price tag that is affordable for my parents with minimal loans for me.
My advise, as the parent of very smart, accomplished son who had many pricy college options a while ago- 2 Ivys, +10 other “better” colleges and U’s + a full tuition merit scholarship at what was then a less "prestigious"U- is to suggest your twins pick Pitt. For us is was USC and it could not have turned out better for him. He is now pursuing his PhD [ at no cost to us] at Caltech- the most "prestigious STEM U in the world. If your DD’s are interested in pursuing more advanced degrees, remember - its the last college on a CV that counts the most.
It will be a blessing for both you and them to not have to worry about how much their education is costing , and will free them up to make the most of what Pitt can offer.
I think Consolation makes some excellent points. And call me crazy- but I don’t see Richmond as being a solid substitute for Wellesley in any shape or form. Pitt and Cornell- there’s a discussion worth having.
So for kid number 1- Pitt all the way. Kid number 2- I don’t think you are there yet. If you were in dire straits financially and Richmond was the only affordable option on the table, then I think you tell Kid number 2- Go to Richmond and embrace it, take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way. We love you and are proud of you and know you will do great things there.
If the situation isn’t dire (and again, I can’t tell from your posts if you’re just experiencing some remorse over having to pay tuition if you don’t have to) then I think it’s worth putting the rest of the admits on the table and reviewing.
I’ve known dozens of Wellesley grads and they are a bunch of formidable, exceptional, driven and engaged women. I think being in a seminar or writing workshop or lab with brains like that must be the funnest experience around- for someone who is wired that way. And for someone who isn’t- walk away with no regret.
I could give you a list of pricey colleges which I don’t think are worth stretching for financially. My kids guidance counselor was shocked by how long my list was in fact. But I don’t think that what makes W (or Cornell either for that matter, but that kid has a good option) is reputation/prestige only.
For International Relations, the most likely post-graduate paths would be a Masters in IR, or masters program in public affairs/policy (MPP, MPA, MPH) – but a law degree would also be a possible career path. PhD might also be a possibility – but probably less common than the career-oriented masters’ programs – which generally do not provide full funding to to their students.
Without the advanced degree, career opportunities are limited and not particularly lucrative. Foreign service is an option about one that requires significant commitment. It’s very common for students with undergrad IR degrees to spend 2-3 years with low-paid internships or a stint in the Peace Corps before moving on to grad school.