Hi-Looking for some realize experience and insights. We are not from East Coast so feel a bit lost. Our D is targeting many of the NESCACs. Guidance counselor feels unlikely for Williams, Amherst or Bowdoin but has a decent shot at Hamilton, Wes, Colby Bates and maybe Middlebury Just trying to understand if there is an appreciable difference in the reputation and/or quality of education. We know each has their own vibe and location plays a role in that as well. Do students ever chose say Hamilton or Wesleyan over Bowdoin or Middlebuy? just trying to get a lay of the land. Thanks for the help!
The schools you mentioned have more in common than differences, IMO. Size and vibe and location vary of course. Has your D visited any? She should definitely do virtual admissions sessions, and then see how the list stacks up and visit the ones your family can get to.
I donât know what your GC is basing the categorizations on, but no unhooked student has a âdecent shotâ at any of the schools named. Not sure Bowdoin would be any less likely than Colby, to take one example. Both have single digit acceptance rates.
All these schools have many students who want to attend, and yes some would choose Hamilton or Wesleyan over Middlebury or BowdoinâŚbut in reality, most students donât end up with that choice because of the low admit rates. I would also not ignore Trinity College or Conn College, also in that conference, both with a bit more forgiving acceptance rates.
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And Connecticut College!!
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Itâs truly a matter of personal preference, and admissions can be unpredictable. My son visited Bowdoin, Hamilton, Wesleyan, Middlebury and Bates. (Also visited Colgate, Boston College (just for fun) and Holy Cross on the same trip). Out of those, he loved Middlebury, Bates, Colgate and Holy Cross. Liked Hamilton and Bowdoin. Really disliked Wesleyan. The acceptance rates at most of these schools will be in the low two digits and even some in the single digits, so no guarantees at any of them. He ended up applying ED1 to Middlebury (rejected), and was accepted ED2 to Bates, where he is now. Heâs very happy.
If youâre able to visit, Iâm sure your daughter will have stronger preferences, and from there you can develop an admissions strategy that will hopefully include some safeties and targets!
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When we visited LACs with my D we felt that each school had its own âvibe.â Some she immediately liked and others she took off her application list after a visit. The best way to discern differences between LACs is to visit if possible. And yes, students will (and should IMO) choose Wes over Middlebury for example if they feel the school is a better fit.
A studentâs future (ex. jobs, grad school) will be much more driven by what he/she achieves in college as opposed to which one of these fine schools he/she ultimately attends.
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Kids who choose Wes over the other colleges you mentioned are often looking for more urban recreational options- close to New Haven (live theater), an Amtrak ride to Boston or NY. And Wes has deep chops in the arts (not that the others donât have opportunities- of course they do) but Lin Manuel Miranda really put the school on the map.
Kids who choose Middlebury over the other choices are frequently interested in a bucolic and rural lifestyle close to skiing, while not compromising on academics. Middlebury isnât far from Burlington- but Burlington isnât as big as Boston or NY, so I would not advise a kid who needs to be near city life to choose Middlebury.
Etc. The lifestyle/location differences are much more pronounced than the academic/reputational ones.
And to add to the fine suggestion of Conn college- New London is on the water (near the Coast Guard Academy, if that gives you a sense of the placeâs maritime roots!). The campus is removed from the city proper, so a nice enclosed feel- but small city CT is different from rural Vermont.
I would encourage your kid to talk to as many current students as possible at each college which is of interest. I know kids who shied away from Middlebury (âfocus is on foreign language and Iâm interested in scienceâ) until they talk to current kids majoring in Neuroscience who have had tons of fantastic experiences. There are kids who felt that Wesleyan was smack dab in the middle of a city past its prime until they hear about terrific opportunities to get involved locally (civic involvement, arts, city schools, many cool volunteer roles).
If you arenât from the East Coast Iâm sure they all sound like âout in the middle of nowhereâ but you need to talk to students to get a flavor of their lives- both inside and outside the classroom.
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In my circle in the last 5 years, I know kids who chose Colby over Bowdoin, Middlebury over Colby, Bowdoin over Williams, Hamilton over Bates, Bowdoin over Colby. In so many ways, they are more alike than similar, even though each has its own vibe.
If you are a student who is looking for a rural LAC in the Northeast with excellent academics, you are already a âtypeâ in terms of the experience youâre seeking. Each has its special sauce in terms of academics and vibe, but it doesnât really translate into âbetterâ - just better fit.
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Certainly. Thatâs why those colleges, as well as Bates and others fill substantial numbers of their class ED.
My own child attended Bates and the only other NESCAC she applied to was Tufts. Not all these colleges are the same and they appeal to different kids in different ways.
To add, we visited many NESCACs and my kid only liked those 2. So it really is personal preference.
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This post includes brief, subjective comments on several NESCACs: Struggling with D21âs List. ED & ED2: Amherst, Hamilton, Wellesley, Vassar - #7 by merc81 .
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If applying from the West Coast, would not count out Williams and Amherst, or even Princeton, which all recruit from the West Coast heavily and itâs not always easy finding applicants that are the right fit. The acceptance rates from certain California high schools is much higher then their East Coast counterparts.
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Thereâs very little difference in the quality of education. Wesleyan, for example, has a 8:1 student faculty ratio which is right up there. The main difference is that Amherst, in particular, has more money for need-based financial aid and in general has the largest non-white enrollment in NESCAC as a result. All that extra spending-per-student tends to place Amherst and the others higher in the USNews ranking system, but people have their favorites after visiting each and making their own comparisons.
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If you might be interested in an external source pertaining to the selectivity of your NESCAC examples, then you can view their âselectivity ranksâ in the print edition of U.S. News. This is how they appeared, in the context of rankings for other LACs, in the â2021â edition (the most recent copy that I own):
ď¸1. Pomona
ď¸2. Harvey Mudd
ď¸2. Haverford
ď¸4. Amherst
ď¸5. Hamilton
ď¸5. Swarthmore
ď¸5. Williams
ď¸8. Barnard
ď¸8. Bowdoin
ď¸10. Washington and Lee
ď¸11. Wellesley
ď¸12. Colorado College
ď¸12. Smith
ď¸12. Vassar
ď¸15. Carleton
ď¸16. Colby
ď¸17. Colgate
ď¸17. Davidson
ď¸19. Claremont McKenna
ď¸19. Grinnell
ď¸19. Middlebury
19. Wesleyan
ď¸23. Bates
ď¸23. Bryn Mawr
ď¸23. Macalester
Note that U.S. News uses âstudent excellenceâ as its basis for determining selectivity (i.e., it considers standardized scoring profiles and high school academic performance, but not acceptance rates).
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How do the calculations work now that some of these schools have a significant proportion of students applying without test scores, as sometimes greater than 50% of the class do not submit scores? (nor do all these schools require students to submit a test score upon matriculation)
How does USNWR define/calculate HS academic performance? Among the listed schools, some donât recalculate GPA, some take weighted GPAs off HS transcripts, and of those that do recalculate GPAs, they do so in different ways. I doubt USNWR has access to the studentsâ data/HS transcript, so they would be unable to make a consistent calculation.
For this ranking system, it seems like schools that are reporting relatively high test scores for only the proportion of submitters and/or those who recalculate GPA by giving extra points for honors and APs will be ranked relatively higherâŚmeaning these rankings are meaningless because they are based on inconsistent calculations across schools and/or faulty calculations by USNWR assuming all the data are consistent.
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@STL1972 just keep in mind that âdistanceâ implied between these top colleges is mostly just a mirage. For one, the difference between them might just be two positions behind the decimal point (which is why you also see so many sharing the identical ranking spot), and then just by publishers tweaking their factors/weighting differently each year, the list might reshuffle substantially.
So near the top, itâs more like pretending to ârankâ Ferraris, Lamborghinis and McLarenâs. You will always find a reason to pick one over the other - but which one is âbest/betterâ depends mostly on what makes which supercar the best fit for your teenager.
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Thank youâyes, she has visited them all but sometimes hard to get the âvibeâ on the tour. So dependent on each tour guide, the weather, etc. So given that, I was wondering if some are quantifiably âbetterâ than other but sounds like I got my answer!
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Itâs worth noting that all these colleges will be academically strong. I like the summaries in @merc81 âs link. Certainly itâs fairly accurate for Bates.
As I am a cheerleader for Bates, Iâll post this link. Bates has been a top ten Fulbright producer for the last ten years. Top Producing Institutions - Fulbright
I admit I didnât precisely check each year, but I think Bowdoin is the only other college that can claim the same. My point being that kids at Bates and the other colleges you listed are being educated to very high standards and are not runners up to Williams, Amherst or Bowdoin.
Iâd also consider other schools on Mercâs post from USNWR. Grinnell, for example, is a great school that is sometimes overlooked because itâs in Iowa. Itâs consistently near the top of all sorts of ranking lists.
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