<p>i’m already in grad school. i’m in history.</p>
<p>Given only the following choices, which would you choose:
(i) a glowing letter from a graduate student
(ii) a flat or negative letter from a professor</p>
<p>Example of what I mean by “flat”:</p>
<p>Dear Sir/Madam,</p>
<p>[applicant] attended [course] and received a grade of [grade]. I recommend [applicant] to your program.</p>
<p>Sincerely,
[prof]</p>
<p>Countless authoritative sources say a flat letter definitely damages one chances. Yet I have not found any authoritative sources say that a positive letter from a graduate student is damaging, only that it may not have as much weight.</p>
<p>Let’s measure the aggregate strength of the letters on a point scale. Positive letter from a professor is +1, positive letter from a graduate student is 0, and flat letter from a professor is -1. Let’s suppose the minimum number of letters required is 2 and that I send 2 letters in.</p>
<p>Scenario 1: Positive letter from a professor & positive letter from a graduate student = 1+0 = 1
Scenario 2: Positive letter from a professor and flat letter from a professor = 1-1 = 0.</p>
<p>Since 1 > 0, it appears that scenario 1 is better than scenario 2. Hence, a positive letter from a graduate student is better than a flat letter from a professor.</p>
<p>I present this scenario to you because these are the only choices I believe I currently have. Now which would you choose?</p>
<p>The letter needs to be from a faculty member. I would try to get a letter from the grad student’s mentor. If that PI does not know you well, they will likely have the grad student write the letter (or part of it) and they would co-sign it. </p>
<p>A non-professor’s letter will not be worth much of anything.</p>
<p>ilikedrit, I dont think anyone is going to agree with you on this. I think it is time to drop it.</p>
<p>ok, giving this thread another angle, who is an ideal candidate to write an LoR?</p>
<p>ilikedrit - my 3rd letter pretty much said the same as your “flat” letter, and I got in to every school to which I applied save MIT. What you are missing is that the “flat” letter you listed is still better than a grad student letter. It is okay if you have not created a deep personal relationship with every professor in the department, but a letter from a grad student implies that you could not even get a professor to say “He got an A and participated in class.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>a tenured professor whom you have studied under for more than one year, who has supervised your own research project or employed you to participate in a research project with him or her. this tenured professor would also have big name recognition in your field and have personal and professional relationships with the professors at the schools to which you are applying. this tenured prof would also think the sun shines out of your rear end, preferably.</p>
<p>and can we like ilikedrit get his letter from a grad student, please? he seems pretty insistent on it, so let him go for it and see where it gets him.</p>
<p>
Lol, which is funny seeing as almost everyone I’ve talked about this, being mainly authoritative sources who would know a lot about this, have agreed with me on this. Maybe you “people” (i.e. person with multiple alts and too much time on their hands?) need to get out from under that rock before you dig yourselves deeper into that hole.</p>
<p>You clearly dont value the opinion of the people on this website so why are you even bothering to continue posting? </p>
<p>My biggest problem with using a grad student is that there is no proof that the grad student is capable of succeeding in research and therefore is not in a position to vouch for someone else. Unless there is somewhere for the grad student to list their credentials when they submit the letter.</p>
<p>Also for all the adcoms know the grad student could be your best friend which would definitely be inappropriate.</p>
<p>Exactly^! Acceptance rates at Univ. of Toronto for graduate school are pretty big, just as undergraduate ones… yet it is a very well-respected University. Top 25 in the World for research and often top 10, depending on field. With the amount of graduate students here, man, I’ve met a lot of stupid ones. All it takes to get in is good grades (like <3.5) and for a PI to like you, or think you’ll at least know how to pipette. Not even remotely comparable to someone who has gone through the PhD, has done post-docs, has a job that’s not just running a lab, but teaching, giving talks, going to international conferences, etc…etc…</p>
<p>But ANYWAY, ilikedrit, we’ll just see what happens. mayyyybe you are right. Maybe the glowing letter from a grad student will be MUCH better than a flat letter from a PI. Please keep us updated on the process, will-ya? I’m curious to know. </p>
<p>To me, getting a great letter from a grad student is akin to getting a glowing letter from your grandmother. Yeah, they like you, but so what?</p>
<p>ilikedrit,</p>
<p>First of all, your accusation against the other posters is a little far-fetched, considering that everyone on the forum has had the opportunity to post in support of your position, and none yet have. Still, to whatever extent the mods are able to verify identities, feel free to ask. If you like, feel free to challenge us individually. I am an electrical engineer (BS Penn State, MS Johns Hopkins, PhD Candidate UIUC) - if you require some proof of the above, feel free to ask me details about campuses, professors, or other such.</p>
<p>Second, no one here can dispute your unnamed “authoritative sources” any more than you can dispute ours. You are free to ignore our commentary but I do not think anyone here is trying to lead you astray.</p>
<p>there appears to be a comprehension issue here. the OP is told something he doesn’t like, so it’s really just multiple accounts from a single person attacking him? he can’t convince a third professor to write him an LOR and yet we’re the ones not getting it?</p>
<p>listen, dude. if you can’t find 3 professors at your university to say that you’d be a good graduate student, then maybe it’s not for you. you can’t find three people that even remotely believe in your ability to succeed?</p>
<p>if grad student letters are so amazing, why not get all three letters from grad students? since it’s the same thing as a tenured professor.</p>
<p>ilikedrit,</p>
<p>I have been on this board for a long time, and the people here to not try to give bad advice as you suggest. You obviously need to pick and choose which advice to follow off these boards. As others said, do not post here if you you believe we are trying to deceive you.</p>
<p>I am already a graduate student, so I do not really care about whether your applications succeed or not. I do try to give and to get good advice on these boards. </p>
<p>Back to the question at hand: If an undergraduate asked me for a letter, I would probably not write one because it would not be of interest to the committee. As I said before, I would recommend that they asked my PI to write it. Depending on the lab, the PI would either write it themself or ask for help (verbal or written) from the grad student working with the undergrad if they did not know them personally. Sometimes the letter will be co-signed by the grad student/post doc and the PI. This way you get a stronger letter and a letter the committees will read (since a PI wrote it or at least signed it).</p>
<p>Take or refuse my advise, but don’t tell me. Regardless, you will only make enemies by telling board members that they are trying to lead you astray.</p>