<p>Of course many smart people do not go to top universities. For one, top universities do not have enough spots to accommodate all smart people. Hence I am using the words ‘on average.’ We could dig up some data, but just by common sense we can deduct that virtually everyone that goes to Dartmouth could go to Louisiana State, while relatively few people from Louisiana State could get into Dartmouth or a comparable school.</p>
<p>To clarify another point, a specific person has a certain level of intelligence. It does not change if he or she chooses Ohio State over Princeton or vice versa. But if it chooses Ohio State, it will signal (note: signal, not actually have) average intelligence of Ohio State graduates, which is lower than that of Princeton graduates.</p>
<p>Same here. I could have gone to Berkeley or UCLA, but I wanted to stay in San Diego so I picked UCSD. For grad school, I am going to the University of Victoria (Canada) because I love the location. Between Harvard and UCSD, I would have still picked UCSD in a heartbeat. I just absolutely don’t care about prestige and that doesn’t make me any less smart.</p>
<p>Even a rudimentary search shows that the average incoming SAT scores and GPA are dramatically higher for a Dartmouth student than a no-name state school. Just because you know a couple people who got into the more prestigious school but turned it down for a bargain, that doesn’t mean that the collective intelligence or ambition of the student body is comparable.</p>
<p>And that is true for almost ANY measure of intelligence.</p>
<p>Would you argue that, on average, a community college student is just as smart as a Harvard student? Of course not, most people (not all, of course) in community college are dumb as a sack of bricks.</p>
<p>Significant difference has a statistical meaning which is not “huge difference.” It’s along the lines of “different enough to detect.”</p>
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<p>In any meaningful measure which people usually associate with “smart.” Could be grades, test scores, IQ, intellectual productive capability, capacity for abstract thought, whatever. If you pick a random Harvard student and a random student from a random mid-tier school, it is far more likely that the Harvard student excels in whatever preferred measure you have than the mid-tier student.</p>
<p>Gaiou37, we are not saying that EVERY student at Harvard is smarter than EVERY student at mid-tier state school. We are saying that if you were to pick a random Harvard student and compare them to a random mid-tier state school student, it is more likely that the Harvard student is smarter than the mid-tier state school student is smarter. The only counter you have offered is that if you had gotten into Harvard, you wouldn’t have gone anyway.</p>
<p>I understand, and I do agree to a certain degree. Statistically a Harvard student picked at random is probably “smarter” than a SDSU student for example. I just have another definition of intelligence, and it has nothing to do with school in my opinion. To me, intelligence has to do with knowing how to make good decisions in life in order to be happy, be conscious of others/the environment etc. I’m a sociology major haha that’s probably why. I actually hate competitiveness, which is why I would never go to Harvard. On the other hand, I understand that most people are completely different, and to each his own :)</p>
<p>How do you know this? Have you ever attended a community college class?</p>
<p>Some people CHOOSE to save money and start out at a community college than go four years at a university. Doesn’t make them “dumb as a sack of bricks”.</p>
<p>And also, once you get your first job, nobody will care whether you went to South Dakota St., Harvard, or Oklahoma City Community College. It will all be about your work ethic and how you perform on the job.</p>
<p>I went to community college for two years, and I can say that a lot of people simply didn’t seem to care about getting high grades. That doesn’t make them dumb though. Many people were not looking to transfer to a 4 year university, so grades didn’t matter as much I guess. I think that a fair amount of people also wanted to save themselves the money (to be honest, I think that paying more to go straight to a university after high school is stupid, especially when you get the same exact degree if you transfer from community college). </p>
<p>Saying that most kids at community colleges are “dumb as a sack of bricks” (talk about stereotyping) actually make YOU sound highly judgmental and, dare I say, stupid (I’m not saying you are, but it sure makes you sound that way).</p>
<p>No one here is saying it has anything to do with the school. How are you not getting this? No one is saying the choice of school one makes is what makes them smarter than those who chose another. The fact that it’s Harvard vs. Whatever is completely irrelevant. We’re simply saying that some schools (Harvard being one) have smarter students than other school. They’re NOT smarter because given the choice between A and B they choose A rather than B. The people at these schools tend to be smarter because of the systems which cherry picked them. </p>
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<p>First of all, that’s an absurd definition for intelligence if you mean it to be all encompassing. A up-and-coming heroin addict might be considered very intelligent based on this. So might a dog if you feed it twice a day. </p>
<p>Secondly, you offered not a single piece of evidence to suggest that a Harvard student does not fit this description as well as or better than a mid-tier state school student, except that even if you had gotten into Harvard you would have still preferred UCSD. </p>
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<p>I’m doubtful of this but say you are right. Your first job will depend on what school you go to, correct? And second job will depend on what you did in the first job? After a certain point the maybe the university’s brand name starts to matter too little to worry about, but it’s not just “Two years, first job, done. My college has no influence anymore.” There will be lingering effects for a while, especially in the category of salary.</p>
<p>“First of all, that’s an absurd definition for intelligence if you mean it to be all encompassing”</p>
<p>That’s just your opinion. I believe that a definition of intelligence based on ability to get into a prestigious university is very limited.</p>
<p>“An up-and-coming heroin addict might be considered very intelligent based on this”</p>
<p>Really?? Taking heroin = ability to make good decisions in order to be happy? It makes you conscious of others? Don’t even get me started on how stupid that sounds.</p>
<p>Employers will judge you how well you do in your interview. If you have a 4.0 from Harvard and have a terrible interview, you are not going to get the job. If you have a 4.0 from a "no name " school and had a great interview, then most likely you will get the job.</p>
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<p>Wrong again. As soon as you set foot in the first day of your job, NOBODY will care where you went to school. And I mean NOBODY. And some bosses will tell you this. Bosses don’t care where you went to school, they care how well you do on the job. </p>
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<p>haha!!! A Harvard grad working at the same job, at the same company as somebody who went to a “non name” school will make the same amount of money.</p>
<p>“There will be lingering effects for a while, especially in the category of salary.”</p>
<p>Are you serious? Your salary will be the same whether you went to Harvard or a no name state university. I am shocked you would actually believe otherwise.</p>
<p>The jobs won’t be the same. Certain employers will only interview grads from a select set of schools. Those employers will pay more than employers who are less selective about their applicants.</p>
<p>Regardless this isn’t really on topic, as employment opportunity is heavily based on factors other than intelligence. </p>
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<p>Are you even reading what I’m saying? Are you being intentionally dense?</p>
<p>My quote: “To me, intelligence has to do with knowing how to make good decisions in life in order to be happy, be conscious of others/the environment etc.”</p>
<p>Your answer: “First of all, that’s an absurd definition for intelligence if you mean it to be all encompassing. A up-and-coming heroin addict might be considered very intelligent based on this. So might a dog if you feed it twice a day.”</p>
<p>One of the most stupid thing I have ever read in my life. Honestly, I lost interest in arguing with you after that.</p>