<p>^^That’s interesting. </p>
<p>“African Americans can get into just about any, if not all, private high schools for a complete free ride.”</p>
<p>What are the names of a few private high schools in Mississippi? I’d like to check that out.</p>
<p>SunDiego, I can see what you mean. An university is in many ways a business and it needs students who can pay in order to have the means to keep its own doors open. But at the same time, Harvard as a large and successful research university has the financial means to be able to admit and fund a fair percentage of low income students into its student body. It has an endowment large enough that it’s quite willing to increase the socioeconomic diversity of its students at the small expense of having to pay for their board and tuition. </p>
<p>It was also fair observation on your part that those from well educated and financially well-off families tend to be better represented at the top universities in the country, but that’s not really because low-income students are disadvantaged in the admissions process due to their ability to pay, but rather because there simply isn’t enough true low-income students who finish their high school career with the level of academic achievement needed to gain admission to a top school. I’m not talking about applicants whose parents have professional degrees but are out-of-work, but rather those who truly come from disadvantageous backgrounds. Not only do their academics tend to suffer because they have less access to resources and opportunity, but low-income and first generation family are also less likely to place as strong of an emphasis on education in general, and less likely to see reasons to encourage their kids to apply to private universities that may appear to be expensive.</p>
<p>What are the names of a few private high schools in Mississippi? I’d like to check that out. </p>
<p>Google private high schools in ms. most of the private high schools sprung out of the 1960’s due to integration. 50 years later, they offer a much better education than the public schools. decades ago, the schools were integrated for tax purposes and now African Americans are welcome and indeed needed. there is a minimum standard to meet but it is not very restrictive. the schools are 90-95 plus percent white. therefore, just about any qualifying need based African American applying is accepted with a full scholarship and some do thrive in the environment.</p>
<p>What are the names of a few private high schools in Mississippi? I’d like to check that out. </p>
<p>generally speaking tuition ranges from $4,500 to $15,000 per year plus many extracurricular expenses that are required. the education is not comparable to the public school system which is deplorable in some, not all, parts of the state. last year, a African American was MR. everything at my sons private school. he is one of the sharpest young men i have ever met. he thrived in the 95% white school and obviously was well respected and excepted by his peers.</p>
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<p>There is a big difference between kids who went to Exeter and are part of some connected VIP family and the kid of a doctor or some other professional who can pay full freight. Your logic is pretty weak. Yeah, we already know being a legacy is a tip factor. If you donate a million dollars to the school, sure you’ll get in. But that doesn’t mean that some random person whose parents can pay for college has an advantage over someone who is poor. Like people have said, the opposite is true (when just looking at how they compare the academic record.) </p>
<p>Look at all the rhetoric of Bill Fitzsimmons, the Dean of Admissions, and maybe you’ll be convinced, especially since he was middle class or poor when he got into Harvard. He has said that he wants to admit “more people like himself.”</p>
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I concur .</p>
<p>"therefore, just about any qualifying need based African American applying is accepted with a full scholarship and some do thrive in the environment. "</p>
<p>Ahhh! Qualifying need based! That’s the part I was wondering about. </p>
<p>I don’t know much about Mississippi so I thought just googling it would not be helpful, but thanks for the suggestion. A lot of folks on CC say something like “any African American can get a scholarship” but whenever I check need always comes into it. I am glad that option is out there, but it is also commonly said that the African Amercans pursuing these things are not the ones with financial need.</p>
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<p>This is true of many top schools but not of HYPS, which have uniquely large endowments and ambitious financial aid programs to match. They’re lucky in that sense; endowments drop off pretty drastically after those four. HYPS, however, can truly be need blind.</p>
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<p>The irony was too great to resist commenting on ;)</p>
<p>It’s a mixed story. Obviously it’s more difficult to compete with upper/middle-class students and all the attendant priveleges and such, but many of the HYPMS want to improve their financial aid profile and boost their federal funding as well (similar rationale for URMs, I believe), so low-income might be a help there. Hard to say, really.</p>
<p>Great feedback; much of it intelligent and thought provoking (and only a few playground comments, e.g. “you’re stupid”).</p>
<p>I think the perception that a lot of disadvantaged kids or lower income kids are getting into Harvard and the like is false. I still maintain that HYPS are very cautious about selecting lower income students and would probably prefer to select an applicant from a well-off background instead.</p>
<p>There are so many things that can go wrong with a low income admit, all of which hurt Harvard’s “numbers”: Drop out/transfer hurts retention stat, full ride freshman probably means four years of full-tuition aid, lack of connection to the school post-graduation, (maybe most importantly) little chance they can be solid donors in the near term.</p>
<p>Yeah Harvard wants to have a diverse class, but more important is the potential for a graduate to deliver academic and financial success. Like others have pointed out, students from wealthy or successful families already have such a huge head start on the bright kid from an inner city school that I suspect HYPS would just as soon pass. Given an Hispanic from a dirt poor family v. one from a middle or upper class family, why not select the later?</p>
<p>Just seems hard to believe that a low income student would actually get a real advantage in the admissions process - yes, I would agree with the OP.</p>
<p>Even though some universities claim they are need blind, they may be not. After all, money is not unlimited, so instead of choosing a low income student, they might sooner pick a top bracket one. Or at least thats what I think.
But considering a low income student with a SAt score around 2100, 600-700 subject tests, 4 and 5 on AP exams, top 25% because he transferred from his inner city school to a magnet school during junior year, with some national recognition in some competitions concentrated in one area, does this student stand a chance against other luxurious students?</p>
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<p>I laughed :D</p>
<p>And Belly, you are asking for your relative again? It’s a good point that schools may not actually be 100% need-blind, but no one will know (except the adcoms themselves). I choose to believe that these schools are need-blind and indeed look favourably upon low-income kids for overcoming hardships, as they so indicated on their websites.</p>
<p>There is no advantage about being low-income, no matter how you put it. It think SunDiego really hit it on the head. It’s nice to think HYPS is being “need-blind” and all, but all that is really just for publicity. HYPS get the majority of their students from feeder schools who have consistently proved their worth and value. Why bother with low-income kids who have no access to that kind of education? The college admissions process is not based on morals. When the admissions officers are evaluating applicants, they are not going to point out incomes; the financial status can only work against you if it is brought up at all. </p>
<p>Now, Questbridge is a different story. However, as someone else said, Questbridge is not good at marketing at all, and ironically, the few schools that do know about it are the well-to-do schools. Most low-income students don’t know about the program or do not have enough time to complete all its demands. I really think Questbridge is not an excuse at all for “admitting low-income students.” Once again, it is for publicity.</p>
<p>but look at Questbridge, what is the statistic that show how many percent applicants are accepted as finalists every year, and how many of them actually get matched?</p>
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<p>Again, correlation=/= causation. Are African American students under-represented in higher education? Of course. But is that because colleges were unwilling to admit them because of their ethnicity? </p>
<p>belly, being low-income doesn’t excuse any applicant from deficiencies in academic qualification as you suggested. By itself it also doesn’t give any boast to admissions chances, as being URM would to some extent. A low-income applicant holding a 2100 SAT and 600-700 on the subject test will have the same chance as another applicant with the same scores coming from a better off family. The two are held by the same standard, meaning that the low-income student is not disadvantaged by his inability to pay.</p>
<p>The admissions and financial aid processes operate separately under different departments at Harvard, so your admissions officer will not be accessing your family’s income information, except through what he may come across in the application itself. </p>
<p>But here’s something else to consider: because the admission process is holistic, any adversity that you might have faced as a result of your family’s financial circumstances is taken into account, and certain leniency is given. For example, if your school doesn’t offer APs, you’re not penalized for not taking them as long as you’ve demonstrated academic prepareness in other ways. There is no boast to your chance because of how much your parents make, but there is consideration and leniency given for difficulties you might have had, unique viewpoint and experiences you showed through the application that you can potentially bring to campus. </p>
<p>Questbridge finalists are accepted to top university at a similar rate to regular applicants.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately your argument falls apart if you use real statistics instead of the ones you fictionalized yourself.</p>
<p>This discussion in general is pretty dumb. It’s dumb to argue over something that can’t be solved. No matter how many times we all post in this topic, no one here is privy to the decisionmaking that goes on in Radcliffe Yard. The best anyone can do is believe that Harvard is what it says it is, i.e. need-blind, absent any evidence to the contrary. (Apart from fictional statistics)</p>
<p>In the holistic evaluation model, a kid who goes to a rural HS in Kansas, gets a 4.0 GPA, has a few APS and a 2100 SAT will be much more likely to be admitted than someone in Palo Alto or Northern VA who gets similar stats and loads of APs.</p>
<p>No doubt whatsoever. Why? Rarity. Uniqueness. May be the top student in the entire state. In Palo Alto or N Virginia, these kids are commonplace.</p>
<p>Almost ALL lowincomers are at a disadvantage applying to ANY colleges. There is that niche that is an exception, but having a low income in a capitalist society is a decided disadvantage most of the time just by definition. So it’s really a forgone conclusion.</p>
<p>However, if a student is of low income to the point of qualifying as disadvantaged and challenged, s/he will have some advantages in the admissions processes. That is something that does stand out since most applicants to these schools are high/mid income, privileged kids with parents and schools in the know supporting them. And such students can get the most complete and generous financial aid packages at these schools if they do get in. But that is a very small part of the picture. The truth of the matter is that there are not that many true low income kids who have the stats and grades and academic preparation to make the admissions cut, and even fewer who apply to these schools even if they do.</p>
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<p>Quoted for truth.</p>