<p>How much of a hook (or whatever else you call it) do you get at Yale if you indicate an intention to major in a smaller department (say, five-ten students graduate with a major from it each year), AND you demonstrate outstanding achievement in that subject? Specifically, I'm thinking of Classics (Latin and Greek). </p>
<p>Also, I've heard of schools that will decide between two equally qualified candidates according to their plans of study--e.g. they might reject a candidate interested in Chemistry, if they have several already, in favor of a candidate interested in something less popular. Is this true at Yale?</p>
<p>It's not really a hook. Yale operate under the assumption that well over half of the kids entering Yale College will change their prospective major (I've heard that straight from the horse's mouth). You won't get any advantage over your intended major.</p>
<p>It's certainly not a hook, but it might be a small tip, assuming you've demonstrated a real passion for the subject. I say this as the mother of a Classics major. :)</p>
<p>You may be underestimating the number of students with demonstrated strength in Latin and Greek who apply to Yale each year. Hundreds, certainly. (Of my children's friends, who attended one public and one private school in one city, pretty much 100% of the Classics jocks -- seven or eight kids, minimum -- applied to Yale. Some even got in.) My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that achievement in Classics or any other slightly out-of-the-way field in which Yale is strong is a positive, but that the overall admission rate for kids with that type of achievement isn't a whole lot higher than the average.</p>
<p>Booklady, how does your child like Classics at Yale? </p>
<p>Also, would Yale consider achievement in the Classics (or any other out of the way field) at a top-of-the-nation level similarly to how they consider winners of Intel/Siemens/whatnot?</p>
<p>My Ds roommate was a Classics major and she was treated very well by the departments at Yale, Brown and others. Not sure what her accomplishments were and how much it actually factored into the admissions decisions.</p>
<p>The classics dept. is wonderful... i came in as a bio major, and am considering picking up latin as a second major bc i've had good experiences. </p>
<p>Being a prospective classics major isn't a hook. It might be a point of interest, and having achievements in that area will be as useful as achievement anywhere else, but the admissions office isn't going to preferentially admit people based on a potential major in classics. It will definitely not make up for low scores... really low scores (< 2000 SAT) are hard to recover from (although the standards vary by your circumstances), and an undersubscribed major is only a minor point of interest.</p>
<p>orangutan, she loves it. She's had terrific professors so far (she's a junior now), and the upper-level language classes tend to be quite small, particularly in Greek.</p>
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the admissions office isn't going to preferentially admit people based on a potential major in classics. It will definitely not make up for low scores.
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<p>Oh, absolutely. I still think it might be a bit of help if you have an all-around outstanding application, though. But who knows, really?</p>
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It will definitely not make up for low scores... really low scores (< 2000 SAT) are hard to recover from (although the standards vary by your circumstances), and an undersubscribed major is only a minor point of interest.
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<p>kwijiborjt: I think that the OP was referring to "low number" majors (ie. majors that draw relatively few students). They weren't talking about having low test scores.</p>
<p>Anyone can say that they're going in a certain direction. But you can't make up (well, you can, but you're not supposed to) a background. A background of classics scholarship and the like will probably be a slight hook, but anyone can say that they're going to be a Classics major.</p>
<p>Booklady and Kwijibort: Thanks for your sharing your experiences. That makes me want to go to Yale more...</p>
<p>I'm not wondering about the generic "I'm interested in Classics" sort of person but someone who has very strong qualifications. Specifically, I got the top academic award at national Latin convention (as well as at the state convention for two separate states, and several other Latin related things). My real question is whether this, coupled with good SATs (2300) and decent grades, would be enough to give me a shot. Would Yale view such achievement in the Classics with the same sort of favor that it views best-in-nation math and science awards like Intel/Siemens? </p>
<p>For me, applying early to Yale entails forfeiting some scholarship opportunities, so I appreciate your input.</p>
<p>This is just rank speculation, so take it with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>I don't know much about the "national Latin convention" or equivalent state conventions, and I don't know what their awards entail. One of the reasons I don't know is because none of the (quite dedicated) Classics students among my kids' friends ever participated in anything like that. On the other hand, most if not all of their science-oriented friends participated in Intel-Siemens. So I conclude from that -- maybe without justification -- that the participation base for the Latin contests is not as deep as that for the big science competitions. And I know from that -- although I don't know the extent -- that there are talented Latin scholars who don't show up at these conventions, but who are nevertheless attractive to selective colleges.</p>
<p>Secondly, I am inherently suspicious of any kind of Latin contest. Siemens/Intel has lots of issues, but in the end it actually resembles real science, and success in it reflects skills (including networking) that are real-world scientist skills. Language tests have little or nothing to do with upper-level scholarship. If there is actual scholarship involved, then I probably have a different opinion, but I would also want to know who is doing the judging.</p>
<p>The bottom line for me in all this is that I doubt your Latin credentials have the oomph of a Big Science Competition win. That doesn't mean they have no oomph at all, though. There's no doubt you will be competitive for Yale or anywhere else you apply. </p>
<p>You have to make your own decisions how to weight scholarship chances against SCEA. My two cents: I don't believe that SCEA improves your chances all that much. If you would have been admitted SCEA, you will probably be admitted RD, and vice versa. </p>
<p>If you DO decide to apply early to Yale, however, you should also get an application in to Michigan immediately. Applying to Michigan (which has rolling admissions) does not violate the Yale SCEA policy (or it didn't a few years ago, you have to check). Michigan is a top-5 Classics university, with sensational opportunities. It has a decent number of very attractive merit scholarships, which generally go to high-stat out-of-state students who apply early in the year. I suspect your combination of high test scores and achievement in a relatively unpopular field where Michigan is very strong would make you a near lock for early acceptance there with a strong possibility of a good scholarship offer. So maybe you can have your cake and eat some of it, too.</p>
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I don't know much about the "national Latin convention" or equivalent state conventions, and I don't know what their awards entail. One of the reasons I don't know is because none of the (quite dedicated) Classics students among my kids' friends ever participated in anything like that.
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<p>The same was true for my D. While she took the Natl. Latin and Greek exams every year, we never heard anything about conventions when she was in high school (and this was a private school with a very strong Classics dept.) I only found out about these conventions recently from reading posts here on CC. </p>
<p>And I second JHS's advice about Michigan. It's a wonderful school with an excellent Classics dept.</p>
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On the other hand, most if not all of their science-oriented friends participated in Intel-Siemens.
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<p>JHS, this comment would have caused me considerable angst a year ago. I would have thought my science-oriented son's applications were doomed. </p>
<p>I know nothing at all about Classics competitions, and you may be absolutely right that national Latin competitions don't carry much weight in admissions offices. But I think you have to be cautious in making generalizations about the value/importance of particular national competitions based on their popularity in your own region. While I don't doubt that in your region, participation in Intel/Siemens is the norm for science kids, that's not the case everywhere. In my kids' schools, top students sit for the National Olympiads (Chem, Bio). But I personally know no science-oriented student, including the two I know who currently go to MIT and my son, who will go to Yale after his gap year, who have participated in Intel/Siemens. I'm not sure my son has more than a passing idea of what it is. </p>
<p>So could it be that the national competition OP excelled in is not as popular in your area as in the OP's? Again, I know zip about Classics, but it's possible.</p>
<p>You are probably right, wjb. I don't know many (any?) kids who did science Olympiads. My kids' school was definitely oriented towards getting kids into long-term research projects that could be written up for competitions.</p>
<p>More on the classics dept: Greek classes are very small... intermediate classes might have 8-10 people, and upper level classes might be between 1-6 people. I have a classmate who is the only person in her greek class... so she gets an independent tutorial. Latin classes tend to be larger, somewhere between 8 and 20 (in exceptional cases) people, but generally hover around 12. I think above 15 would be too much for a Latin class. </p>
<p>Classical civilization courses tend to be more popular. Intro to Greek history with Donald Kagan is very popular, and is one of the largest lectures at Yale. Roman history might have ~40 students, and other classes vary anywhere from 5 to 40 students. I took a class on the development of the romance languages out of vulgar latin with 8 people, and a Roman architecture class with ~20. </p>
<p>Both the latin & greek curricula and the classical civ. curriculum are very good. If you come to visit you should sit in on a few classes... you won't be disappointed. The classes are at different levels... there are latin classes for freshmen that will be slower and less analytical, and ones for advanced students that will move very quickly. There's an in depth grammar class for latin/greek majors, and lit courses in translation for classical civ. credit. Each semester there are different classical civ courses about mythology, military, various genres, etc. and there are perennials in architecture, history, etc.</p>