Low SAT . . . any college ideas?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>My son's scores from June 06 SAT were bad. He will try again, but what if this IS where he is, a 1700-1800 scorer? What if his strengths just don't shine through on an SAT?</p>

<p>Somebody tell me you went to local State U and did great, have a successful career, can provide for your family, yada, yada, yada.</p>

<p>We're in Texas, so there ARE lots of state schools to look at. But we had hoped for so much more. BTW, he's convinced he will do much better next time, it's just that I'm not.</p>

<p>(V: 620; M: 560 W: 560)</p>

<p>Discouraged Mom</p>

2

<p>Those scores are really not bad. You can get into many schools with those scores. If you want, he can try the ACT too. Some students seem to do better on the ACT, and others perform better on the SAT.</p>

<p>Also, you might have him tutored this summer for either the SAT, or the ACT.</p>

<p>Look for schools where his sat score falls in the top 25%, and then some where he falls in the midrange.</p>

3

<p>Trust your kid cause they know what they are talking about usually. He may be lying to you though to reassure you, but I doubt it. If he took it no prep and got that 1700, then no worries. I'm sure he will do great after some real prep. When I told my parents that I would easily score 2350+, they thought I was kidding and offered to send me to all these unreliable tutoring services and SAT prep classes. I firmly rejected their offer. Although my psat was only a meager 213, that was because I did not study. </p>

<p>This summer: I suggest that your son buy 2 things that will be leaps and bounds more valuable than taking a princeton review class.</p>

<p>Buy the Collegeboard Blue Book and Official Online SAT Prep course from college board. That will cost you around $80 if you can spare the cash. </p>

<p>Do not waste your time with useless books from princeton review and kaplan, and if you must buy an extra book, buy Rocket Review's SAT book. Read only for the strategies. Personally I think it's crap, but several people say it is the only reason that they scored over 2200. A friend of mine scored 2400 using it.He also did some fishy stuff during the test and had around $5000 in prep, but he claims after the 2400 he only skimmed through rocket review. Filthy korean liar. </p>

<p>The rest of the time touch only the official SAT prep questions. Only the official stuff is good. Make your son work through all 8 tests. Review each question with the online sat course (the online course has extremely comprehensive answer explanations). </p>

<p>They may seem a bit complex and wordy, but just stick with it. Review even the questions that you answer correctly to make sure nothign slips through the cracks. Look at each answer explanation to improve your sense of what is correct english and what is not and why. </p>

<p>If you do this, your son's practice test scores will skyrocket I'm sure. The blue book does not have an exact scoring rubric, but don't worry, the sat scoring rubrics hardly change from year to year so just use the scoring rubric for the sat practice test if you have that or get one from someone who has the question and answer service. </p>

<p>The blue book and online course are things that any SAT prepper must have.
I emphasize MUST. Even when you finish allt he tests online and in the blue book, do not touch other tests. Avoid them like the plague. They are useless and only distract you from your true goal. Btw, Princeton Review and Kaplan publish "extremely accurate" books since they published their book before teh first new SAT test was even administered and before collegeboard published their guide. Wow. That is strange. How do they even know what the test is like before the test even is released? The answer is they don't. There is so many inaccuracies regarding the new SAT. They basically thought that the test would be the old sat combined with SAT ii writing. They thought wrong. Stupid money grubbing prep companies.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the encouragement!</p>

<p>Believe it or not, he WAS in a prep class, and it helped some. But he did not prep in all the ways I thought he should have - namely, more official SAT questions. Pretty much what Hikaru recommended.</p>

<p>NEMom, what we HAVE to have is some scholarship or grant $$. That is why he and I had hoped for more. We have only $20K set aside for college; that will pay for a state school (and living at home or summer work) only. I don't want to sound ungrateful; I know he can get INTO a number of schools. But I had hoped he would score high enough to earn some scholarship or grant $$ from the schools . . . I may have been dreaming.</p>

<p>Everyone thinks their child is extraordinary but that's not always true come testing day.</p>

5

<p>He would score 700 V, 720+ W on practice tests! He is discouraged from practice tests because those kind of scores had him thinking he could hit 700 in verbal and writing. We knew math would be hurting, but we had hoped he could hit 600.</p>

<p>His goal is 1900 to 2000. He can get the scholarship he wants with a 700/700 M/V. Looks a little unlikely now!</p>

<p>He will test again Oct. and Nov. Are the tests at the beginning of the year easier?</p>

<p>Will it make a difference - big difference - that he is completing Alg. II this summer?</p>

6

<p>What is his class rank? Top 10% has their pick of any state school in Texas.</p>

<p>If he isn't in the top 10%, there are still several fine schools your son could get into (including privates). Look into SMU, TCU, Baylor, Abilene Christian as privates, and as publics, look into Texas Tech as well as your local state U. Your son could go to Texas State, make great grades, get a job and be set. </p>

<p>My cousin was an A-to-B-average student in high school (with a few C's - those came after she moved from Alabama to Texas) and had low SAT and ACT as she wasn't a good test taker. She went to Stephen F. Austin State, had a great time, graduated in 4 years, had a job offer upon graduation, and after only a year of work she has been promoted.</p>

7

<p>Also, think about taking the ACT.</p>

8

<p>Funny you should mention SFA - my sister-in-law works there and we have heard it mentioned several times recently for a sports mgt. program in the business dept, something he is interested in, so we are definitely going to visit there.</p>

<p>We have visited SMU since we live in DFW area, but that school left me cold. Just personal preferences - ha! But at $30K/year, it's out of our range.</p>

<p>We are going to have to look at state schools. He is in a private HS, and it is so competitive that with a 92 average (low A) he is in the BOTTOM half of his class. They have 1 or 2 merit scholars out of 27 kids, and 4-5 commended. a bit stiff, no? ;-)</p>

<p>As someone on this board wisely said, you need to fall in love with one of your safeties. So, off we go to find affordable state schools that he really, really, likes, in case:</p>

<p>a) that's all his SATs and class rank qualify him for;</p>

<p>b) he gets no scholarship money. Cause our $20K is only gonna buy 4 years at a state school.</p>

<p>We will definitely look at SFA.</p>

9

<p>Mrs.Kent - what private school is that? It sounds very competitive and colleges will know that when you apply. </p>

<p>Hmm...I happen to love SMU, as you said, personal preferences! Good scholarship program there, though.</p>

<p>When you go look at SFA - be prepared for culture shock coming from DFW. Hey, I'm from Corpus and we're more backward than DFW, but even I was a little shocked when I first went to Nacogdoches. It's like stepping back in time. Good slow pace to it though. </p>

<p>Baylor has a Sports Sponsorships and Sales program in the business school. <a href="http://www.baylor.edu/business/marketing/index.php?id=23770%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baylor.edu/business/marketing/index.php?id=23770&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

10

<p>Finishing algebra 2 will probably make his math score go up some.</p>

<p>And if he does well on practice tests and just not the real thing, there's a possibility that he just gets test anxiety. It happens to loads of people. If his grades and extracurriculars and recommendations are good, then he should still be able to get into a decent state school with no problem.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Also, think about taking the ACT.

[/quote]

Get a damn practice test for the ACT and see how well your kid does. If your kid spends time in a SAT Prep course, then he can spend the 3 hours doing this.</p>

12

<p>Okay, time to show more of my ignorance. And this is considering that I DID take the ACT, light years ago, because that was what my alma mater (KSU) required. I just did what I was told.</p>

<p>Then, a few years ago when I started researching college admissions and the whole world surrounding that, I heard SAT, SAT, SAT. Thought it was the dominant test - the one 90% of the schools will accept.</p>

<p>So . . . is the ACT the redheaded stepchild? I know some kids do better there since it is a subject test. He can take it, his prep program includes training for it. But what is the value of that - to try and substitute it for the SAT if it is a far better score? To demonstrate that he IS a good student, just doesn't do well on SAT?</p>

<p>I keep telling him testing is a game, not who he IS, but a game we must play for college admissions.</p>

<p>Appreciate all the advice.</p>

<p>(Nathan, you will have to tell me what you liked about SMU. I saw more $$ invested there than at any other college we visited; clearly some deep pockets, which makes for some topnotch facilities. But oh, what an emphasis in the student body on money. Daddy's money. ;-)</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
So . . . is the ACT the redheaded stepchild? I know some kids do better there since it is a subject test. He can take it, his prep program includes training for it. But what is the value of that - to try and substitute it for the SAT if it is a far better score? To demonstrate that he IS a good student, just doesn't do well on SAT?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes...that is why you take it. And here's something to consider: Yale requires either the SAT and three SAT II Subject tests, or the ACT with no extra subject tests. Schools allow you to submit one or the other; if a student does remarkable on the ACT, they look at that the same as a student who does remarkable on the SAT. I took the old SAT and got a decent score (1390)...I was going to take it again with the new test. Then I got a 35 on my ACT. I've been told that I probably shouldn't take the SAT again. </p>

<p>What I liked about SMU...first off, I love red brick campuses. But seriously, I like the Business Scholars program and the fact that there were a lot of internships available (more than they actually have students). I felt like it was a place that could afford me a lot of connections to the business world. And the positive of having a student body with money is the possibility to make connections (hey, I'm going to be a business major, it's all about networking) with the sons and daughters of CEOs. So while I don't particularly care for the Parkie attitude (I live in a part of Corpus that has it as well), I felt as if it would prepare me well for life after college.</p>

14

<p>Hi, Mrs. Kent. You mentioned that you lived in the DFW area (same for me, too), and I just had to ask. Any chance that the SAT prep course you referred to was KDCP?</p>

<p>He will test again Oct. and Nov. Are the tests at the beginning of the year easier?</p>

<p>Definitely not! It's actually harder in October/November because of the curve. I've heard stories about people who took the test in October/November, and then calculated their score if they had taken it at a later date (with the same right/wrong/missed). Their score came out considerably higher (60 points for one guy). This tends to affect people who are scoring near-perfect more, though, but even 10 points could make all the difference.</p>

15

<p>Trust collegeboard. The months should be pretty similar. Although I practiced wtih the january question and service test, adn I easily got a perfect. I felt that january was easier and the curve was more gentle. From what most people on the forum said, april was pretty deadly, especially the passage about poem translation. </p>

<p>But in the end, its something that no one knows. We can all make predictions, but none will know exactly how hard it is until we take it.</p>

16

<p>I may need to tread lightly here, Serendipity, but you guessed correctly.</p>

<p>Are you also enrolled in it?</p>

<p>I am not sure it was worth the money. Not yet, anyway. He has not complied with the program guidelines, though, nor did he ask for enough help. Pride goeth before a fall. ;-) I am VERY aggressive about learning and wouldn't have left a workshop session without knowing exactly how to solve every problem I missed. His problem is that the light goes on, he "sees" the answer/reason/approach at last . . . then moves on to the next problem the teacher is discussing. No notes. So, comes home, mom asks how to do 'this problem,' and . . . blank. ;-(</p>

<p>It CAN work, but it requires student work. Lots of it. </p>

<p>What's your take on it?</p>

17

<p>Yes, I go there, too. It seems very popular (nearly all of my friends attend).</p>

<p>I think it really depends on which teacher you get. I've had both great and mediocre ones (in workshops) but have been lucky enough to have great lesson instructors. My math teacher actually took the time after class to explain some GPA loopholes to me. I agree with you about having to take the initiative yourself, though. They are always willing to help, but they won’t “hover” over you. They give all the resources they can, but in the end, it’s up to the student. Personally, I thought it worth it. I took their Duke lesson, and just enrolled in their 9-12 program (nearly 2k… parents weren’t too pleased about that one). Back in seventh grade, I remember my score went up about 200 to 250 points total, so I definitely thought it was worthwhile to come back.</p>

18

<p>Mrs. Kent - Here's another not so small advantage to the ACT from the student applicant perspective. The student can pick which ACT scores to send from a single sitting to a college. With the SAT every score goes to the college no matter what. The trick for the ACT is that the student when completing the "where to send my scores" info should LEAVE THIS BLANK (including not sending the ACT scores to his high school). Then you are in total control of what gets sent to the college/university. As you know, the ACT is very well accepted (a recent "graduate" on the CC Board from Texas) only took the ACT; did very well; and was accepted to Yale, Amherst, and a host of other schools (with significant merit scholarships in many areas).</p>

<p>Part 2, I am also from North Texas and I am a big fan of the honors programs and honors colleges at state universities. (My son will be a junior at Texas Tech's Honors College and he loves it there and is doing very well academically.) Even if your son is on the lower end of the range of test scores for the honors programs, go ahead and have him apply (assuming he's interested) because many honors programs do a "holistic" review of the applicant.</p>

<p>You had already mentioned that private schools (and out-of-state public) are iffy due to the cost. But let me toss a couple in the ring anyway. I was very impressed with both the University of Oklahoma (OU) and University of Tulsa (TU) for different reasons. As a "big state u", OU does very well academically (as well as athletically) and with a student population in the low 20,000's it is not as massive and intimidating as many others. Check out OU's website and you'll see what I mean. My son and I were very impressed with OU after two campus visits.</p>

<p>As for TU, it is a genuine diverse university in a very attractive city, Tulsa, with a bit less than 5,000 students in total (and only 2700 undergraduates); a large endowment; and a price tag lower than most private schools (less than Baylor, TCU, and SMU by two to six/seven thousand dollars). It is very comparable to TCU and SMU but on a smaller scale. Again, if you check out TU's website, I think you'll be impressed.</p>

<p>As for a small liberal arts school, Centennary College in Shreveport is worth a look. If your son's SAT scores rise a bit, Hendrix College outside of Little Rock is a strong contender. Again, both have price tags considerably lower than schools of comparable quality in other parts of the country. Inside Texas for liberal arts, there's the troika of Trinity University in San Antonio (higher test scores), Southwestern University in Georgetown, and Austin College in Sherman.</p>

<p>If you are considering Stephen F. Austin, also give Sam Houston State in Huntsville a look. They are very comparable in size and offerings and are about the same distance from the DFW area (around 200 miles). (My older son attends Sam Houston.) The advantage to Sam Houston is the sprawling city of Houston that is forty miles south of Huntsville. Not only can students dip into the bright lights of the big city now and again, but many employers take the short trek up to Huntsville to interview Sam Houston students. Also, Sam Houston is a very easy and quick drive down I 45. Most students and families in North Texas are very familiar with SFA, but have little awareness of Sam Houston (except for the negative connotation of being in Huntsville with the state prisons). </p>

<p>Finally, as you know, all colleges and universities have numerous alumni that are doing very well career-wise. For instance, my Tech son is having an "informational interview" with a federal banking regulator in D.C. this week who graduated from Abilene Christian. The federal banking regulator is doing very well in his career and was recently promoted from Dallas to the Washington headquarters. The CEO of AT&T (formerly SBC Communications) is a Tech grad.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
Somebody tell me you went to local State U and did great, have a successful career, can provide for your family, yada, yada, yada.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here's my personal story to calm your nerves...</p>

<p>I graduated from high school in 2000 with a 2.9UW GPA, SAT 1120 (530 V; 590 M), and I think a 21 ACT (didn't know how to study for it). I gained admittance to the University of Pittsburgh (good partially state-funded school) and though I was in the lower portion of my entering college class, I took that as a challenge for my not to fail as some may have though I would. </p>

<p>I somehow managed to place into Calc I, being the only person in my class not taking Calc in high school, and ended up with an A+ on my first exam and ended up with A's in each Calc 1, 2, and 3. </p>

<p>My first semester I also found my field of interest, geology, by taking the classic 'rocks for jocks' class and immediately switched my major. I found my stride in college and did better than I had ever done in high school, graduating magna cum laude with a 3.54 QPA (Pitt's equiv. of GPA). </p>

<p>I'm now finishing up my MS in geology at the school of my dreams as a child, UNC-CH, and will be attending UW - Madison in the fall for my PhD program. As mediocre student in high school with mediocre SAT/ACT scores, I thought I would be a 5-year undergraduate student and leave school forever at that point. Now I'm completing graudate degrees in my field with full-funding (including tuition remission) and plan on teaching at a small liberal arts college upon completion of my PhD (luckily my PhD advisor has an excellent track record of placing students in such positions). </p>

<p>I think even as a graudate student, you can call it a 'successful' career and even if I am not able to find a position in academia, industry is always looking for a good PhD geologist for excellent pay (actually better pay than that of a professor).</p>

<p>Your son is not doomed. He just needs to make the most of what he can get into and have initiative to do as well as he possibly can. Attitude and personality speak much louder than scores!</p>

20

<p>Let me tell you a quick story to show you how things change:</p>

<p>I have a cousin who, while in high school, was never interested in anything but baseball and visiting Death Valley--he was absolutely facinated with Death Valley. Anyway, he didn't even bother with studying and he did terribly on his SATs--and so ended up at Mount San Antonio College (a community college in southern California) where his first semester's grades were a 1.67 GPA--that's right a C-/D+ average--in his business/math curriculum his father had set up for him--and where he was on the baseball team.</p>

<p>After doing so poorly, he was forced to drop off the baseball team (need a 2.0 GPA in order to stay in team sports). He convinced his parents that he had no interest in business/math, but could do well if he switched to Zoology or Nature studies. From that point on his GPA skyrocketed. He finished with a 3.0+ at MT SAC, went to UCLA, where he graduated with honors in Zoology at both the B.S. and M.S. levels. He received his PhD in Zoology from Arizona State. </p>

<p>He went to work for the Brookings Institute, did research on mammal studies for some prestigious research groups, has taught at a few universities and today he heads up the Department of Forestry at one of the best known universities in the Pacific Northwest (I don't know if I should mention which one here, since he may not want everybody to know his background, but you can probably figure it out from what I've posted here if you are interested). He still is considered the worldwide expert on Death Valley--as well as becoming an expert on the effect of clear-cutting and other various topics concerning the forests of the Pacific Northwest.</p>

<p>So, yes--people can do well even when things seem bleak--you just have to find your niche.</p>