<p>A 150 is a mid-percentile score. My kids had huge improvements (30-50 total pts.) from soph to jr. year after some prep. I think PSATs vary from year to year in their difficulty.</p>
<p>This is very encouraging (that some prep can raise a PSAT from 30-50 points). I am hoping for my son’s SAT’s to improve along those lines (or more) which would be more in line with his GPA, otherwise, I will need to start a new thread here called “schools for top 5% students with 60%tile SAT scores”. Many of the SAT optional schools are not the types of schools that my child would be interested in AND he would lose any chance of merit scholarships without a top SAT score.</p>
<p>Haha, chill I got a 1400 then a 1600, sophomore and junior year respectively, and first time i took the SATs broke 2000, so don’t worry about it (no class taken, no prep).</p>
<p>Probably don’t have to worry about Soph PSAT too much. I took my sophomore year PSAT with basically no prep whatsoever (Didn’t even bother opening the official packet distributed by College Board) and scored a 205, with a 55 in Writing. Junior Year I had moderate preparation and increased my score by over 25 points, so the 10th grade PSAT is only a building block for the one that truly counts.</p>
<p>The level of math on these tests is relatively basic, so if your kid is in precalc or calculus, it doesn’t mean they’ll do better. Going over the questions missed on the real test is invaluable. Found that the ones D missed were the pre-algebra/basic algebra word problems, as she was in a precalc frame of mind. Once she went over them again with her middle school math books it was like, oh, yeah, now I remember. Didn’t take long at all to refresh.</p>
<p>My daughter, newly accepted (YAY!) at her coveted ED choice, in New England, rec’d a 170-something, and, then, a 190-something on her successive PSATs.</p>
<p>Flash forward: Daughter thought the ACT might be a more appropriate test for her, given her less-than-stellar PSAT performance. She rec’d a 31 or 32 (sorry I don’t remember which) and then decided to give the SAT a go. Her first collective score was 2180 (more than her PSATs would have predicted). She then decided to take the SATS, again, 6 mos. later, early in her senior year (so a few months ago) and rec’d a 2290–800 in math, 800 in writing, and 690 in reading (reading improved by 20 points, only, by the way, on the second SAT sitting, and I have seen data that suggests that reading is the hardest area to improve, that reading comprehension is pretty much hardwired).</p>
<p>What did my daughter do to improve her scores? Well, for one, my daughter is nine months to 1 1/3 years younger than most of her national peers in her grade, against whom she is scored–so, she (neurologically) aged–she became a more mature test-taker by virtue of getting older. </p>
<p>We offered her tutoring for the SAT–all of her friends and peers were doing it, but she flatly turned us down. She is very adamant that she never be held up by tutors, which has become the national trend among upper-middle class high schoolers, and felt that she wanted her triumph to be her own and that she also wanted a score that reflected her efforts, exclusively. This is not a judgement about anyone else–just her view of the world and herself.</p>
<p>But!, with some admirable discipline, she made her way through the bound SAT tests books, before each SAT sitting. I think the mere act of taking the tests, again and again, accounted for some profound gains.</p>
<p>Now, as far as the SAT IIs (subject tests, in my day), she got a 690 in Spanish (she’d had poor preparation in her Spanish III class) and a 760 on the Math IIC (I think it is–the math that engineering applicants must take, even though she’s not going to be an enginner). She got some scary low grade in History, which she took, on a lark and out of curiosity, since her coveted school only required two subject tests</p>
<p>She didn’t study for either the Spanish test (in fact, she decided to take the Spanish test at the last minute), and she found Math IIC easy and wanted to take it again to see if she could improve her already good score–we sort of nixed that idea.</p>
<p>I hope that this is helpful. I think that the math is certainly improvable with study and/or help. And I think that one can improve on writing, provided they receive input about what ideal writing looks like, since such recognition is called upon in the multiple choice and essay parts of the writing test.</p>
<p>I think it is really important to be clear in your own head about the purpose of the PSAT, which is to identify a very small select group of students who will be considered for the National Merit family of scholarships. Unless you think your child can improve her score to at least 200 next year, she really hasn’t a chance at those things. Which means that she should sleep late or go out to brunch instead of taking the 11th grade PSAT next fall.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the courses she takes in high school and the grades she earns in them will be much more important when it comes to college application time than any of her standardized test scores. That is where she (and you) should be focusing your energies.</p>
<p>If she continues to worry about her potential test scores, have her take a long hard look at the list of test optional and no-test colleges and universities at [The</a> National Center for Fair & Open Testing | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org%5DThe”>http://www.fairtest.org)</p>
<p>fall semester junior year psat counts for NMS, right? </p>
<p>so he’s got a year to prep for a high score chance and possibly make nms. I recommend the prep courses, the kind were you take test after test…practice!</p>
<p>Taking the PSAT cold could explain the score; maybe this is a kid who will do much better when he knows what he’s facing and is prepared for it. Try some SAT prep and see what his practice SAT scores look like. Another possibility is that this is a kid who will be much happier with the ACT. (I believe that there is a practice ACT, equivalent to the PSAT, but good luck finding it in my part of the country!) One of my kids was like that – solid but not stellar SAT’s; extremely high ACT with minimal prep. So you might want to get him the Real Act book and let him do a sample test there. If he is doing much better with the ACT, then he really doesn’t have to take SAT I’s (unless his next PSAT is high enough for NMF, in which case he really won’t mind taking SAT’s.)</p>
<p>My D took the PSAT cold sophomore year. Did terrible. Took some SAT prep classes. SAT score (2x senior year) was not so great. Took ACT (May of Jr year and Sept of Sr year) and did better. She typically doesn’t do well on tests. Doesn’t matter how many times she would take these, these were her scores.</p>
<p>However, she continued to take the most challenging course load FOR HER. Will have 4 APs when she graduates in June. 92 weighted average; graduating 39/470. Very well-rounded - sports, community service, religious activities. Already got two college acceptances.</p>
<p>If your student is a sophomore, it’s a good time to let them know that there is more than one school where he/she would fit in. Not everyone has to go to an Ivy League or top “name” school. The kids in my daughter’s class who are completely stressed out over ED this week are a wreck. My D has three top choices. Whenever anyone asks her where she wants to go, she gives them all three. We visited 7 of the 9 schools she applied to; I can actually picture her at any of those, including one of her safety schools. Today’s acceptance was from her #4 choice (UConn).</p>
<p>I would advise more prep for the standardized tests but, as someone else said, don’t let these scores define you! My D is a great, outgoing, confident, social, intelligent girl. I have confidence that she will do well - and have a good time and a good experience - wherever she goes!</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, tell your student to enjoy high school!</p>
<p>We have decided to focus on the ACT. She is doing as well as expected on that in the practice tests. There is no reason to take the SAT if the student does better on the ACT. I read somewhere that underachiever do better on SAT and overachiever better on ACT. That will appear to be true with our two older kids. Her brother did better on SAT but he certainly wasn’t the hard worker that she is. I think that since her math is the weakest, having three non math sections to help bring up the score is the key for her doing so much better. She also does better on the ACT questions since they are much more straightforward.</p>
<p>You do realize 150 as a soph is over 70th percentile, right? I had one kid whose score went up over 60 points from soph to senior year and another of my kid’s had the score go up over 40 points from soph to junior year.</p>
<p>Just had to chime in after reading this thread. My S is a sophomore, ADHD, not highly motivated, took the PSAT this yr completely cold (no prep, no practice questions, nothing). Not sure he even knew what the PSAT was until he got into the exam room. (S is somewhat oppositional, so forcing him to prep would have been an exercise in complete frustration, so I didn’t even try.) Scored a 161 (73%ile for juniors): CR 55, M 51, W 55. I wasn’t expecting the moon of course, but I was nonetheless surprised. I expected him to score in the 40’s on each section.
So, can I expect any reasonable improvement next yr, if I have him prep? (Note-- I am NOT expecting him to be a NMS or NMF by any means. Just want him to get into college.)
Thanks for any wisdom. (PS. He is not on any ADHD meds-- yet.)</p>
<p>^FWIW, my sons math and reading went slightlydown between sophomore and junior year, (Geometry as sophomore, Algebra II as junior) and he’s been on meds for 12 years. He remained “average” (160/163), as his writing increased 10 points. He spent maybe 2 hours practicing writing on some online program I think we heard about here,</p>
<p>Bflogal, Here’s a thread that showed how some cc kids improved last year. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/566314-psat-average-improvement-soph-jr.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/566314-psat-average-improvement-soph-jr.html</a></p>
<p>Bflogal, I would have him prep for the SAT next year, not the PSAT. Have him take the PSAT in fall of his junior year, then prep for the SAT in spring. He can take it in the spring of junior year and if results are not what you want, he can prep again and retake in the fall of his senior year. That was our strategy for S, which he went along with for the first part (prepping for SAT spring of junior year) but then decided not to retake in senior year. We didn’t force him although we had hoped he would stick with the original plan.</p>
<p>Remember the colleges don’t look at the PSAT, they will look at the SAT so that is where I would focus once he is a junior. And I think this is good news that your S did as well as he did sophomore year on the PSAT. My S did not do that well on the PSAT but he made improvements for the SAT, where it mattered.</p>
<p>Thanks shrinkrap, 2college, campbellmom. An acquaintance of mine, whose S was a NMF (or maybe even NMS), told me that parents have it all wrong-- that they should have their kids prep for the PSAT, not the SAT, because the PSAT is what can get them FA and also recruited by lots of schools (if they do well). At the time, that made sense to me, but after more thought, I’m not sure. If your kid (like mine) hasn’t a prayer of making NMF or NMS, then it doesn’t seem to make sense to prep for the PSAT. I think campbellmom’s strategy is right on.</p>
<p>2college, vasudevank,sprevite and Proxy: Can you provide any insight into what your kids or you did to produce those improvements.</p>
<p>vasudevank: It is encouraging to see that you are at Duke!</p>
<p>pacheight and happymom: NMS would be a delightful miracle, really all we want are SAT or ACT scores that will get him into the school of his choosing. Presently his goals aren’t all that lofty. Mid 1200’s on M and CR would probably cover it for the state schools he is looking at. Sure higher would be great but probably not worth the all consumng effort it would most likely take. He might look at privates if the scholarships/grants were available but these most often come with strong scores. That is the reality at least as I know it.</p>
<p>CCSurfer: I think we will get on that. Maybe I’ll order the ACT book and a vocab book and take advantage of the pre Christmas specials and get free shipping. If you or anyone else has a good suggestion for vocab review I would love to hear it.</p>
<p>Bonnie419: I hope when we review we will find that to be the case. He is in the top of his class in math but the test results were about 80% for sophs. His biggest problem is speed or I guess lack of it.</p>
<p>LINDYMOM: I hear you about enjoying HS. In our school the choices are advanced classes that provide good college prep but are tons of work or regular classes where students more or less skate. S has chosen the harder path and is a student that does need to study. This is his choice. No telling what he will select next year.</p>
<p>Campbellmom: Its not really that he is all that competitive, it is just that these were distributied in an AP class and I expect those that did well were talking about it. That is natural. He just happened to be in earshot. Either way this should inspire him but before that happens it depressed him. </p>
<p>Kei: From now on it is practice SAT!</p>
<p>Just to update you, S is the kind of kid that falls hard but recovers quickly. He is back on track getting after his classwork and his negative commentary has seised. I don’t think there is anything left to say to him to improve his self image with regard to this. I think it is a little bruised but hopefully time and experience will help him put things in perspective. Hopefully this will help him learn where the improvements are needed and give him time to address the weaknesses without too much stress. Any suggestions you have about methods for study and specific study guides are welcome. It is so encouraging to hear about those of you with experiences of improvement as well as about how life goes on even if the improvements hoped for aren’t achieved.</p>
<p>Bflogal, if a student is really an outstanding standardized test taker and that has been proven with time (public schools in CA have the STAR exams each year, etc.) then maybe it does make sense to study for the PSAT in order to possibly get the National Merit recognition and benefits that come from it. I think your acquaintance was coming from the perspective of having such a child and generalizing the opinion to all children. However, if this is not the case, the PSAT is practice for the more important SAT and needs to be looked at as such. </p>
<p>If the PSAT results are good, you can relax a little because it indicates that possibly the SAT results will be similar. If they aren’t good, then it gives a clear indication that studying and prep will be necessary for the SAT. My S’s CR scores did not budge from PSAT to SAT even with prep, but the math and writing scores improved. As would be our luck, his writing score was the highest of the three, but many colleges do not count the writing score.</p>
<p>For prep, we wanted to do the cheaper option, a course provided through our kids’ high school for about $300.00, but S’s sports schedule wouldn’t allow it. I looked into Kaplan, Princeton Review and another similar type of test prep, but again S was playing two sports (school and club) in the spring of junior year and his schedule wouldn’t allow for it. We ended up having him tutored at home every Sunday from March to May prior to the May '09 exam. He didn’t do the homework they asked him to do (argghhh) but he never complained and spent part of his Sunday afternoons devoted to SAT prep.</p>
<p>He still came in at the 61st percentile–nothing to write home about–but better than the PSAT and good enough to reach the middle 50% of three out of four colleges he applied/will apply to.</p>
<p>If he had done things his mother’s way (haha), he would have retaken in October of this year and gotten closer to 80th% percentile and been a stronger college applicant. But S is not the student I was, has a relaxed temperament when I wish he was more competitive schoolwise, and makes different decisions than I would. Now that he is 17, I’m learning to accept that he doesn’t always see things the way I do, and that’s o.k.</p>
<p>Bflogal, if a student is really an outstanding standardized test taker and that has been proven with time (public schools in CA have the STAR exams each year, etc.) then maybe it does make sense to study for the PSAT in order to possibly get the National Merit recognition and benefits that come from it. I think your acquaintance was coming from the perspective of having such a child and generalizing the opinion to all children. However, if this is not the case, the PSAT is practice for the more important SAT and needs to be looked at as such. </p>
<p>If the PSAT results are good, you can relax a little because it indicates that possibly the SAT results will be similar. If they aren’t good, then it gives a clear indication that studying and prep will be necessary for the SAT. My S’s CR scores did not budge from PSAT to SAT even with prep, but the math and writing scores improved. As would be our luck, his writing score was the highest of the three, but many colleges do not count the writing score.</p>
<p>For prep, we wanted to do the cheaper option, a course provided through our kids’ high school for about $300.00, but S’s sports schedule wouldn’t allow it. I looked into Kaplan, Princeton Review and another similar type of test prep, but again S was playing two sports (school and club) in the spring of junior year and his schedule wouldn’t allow for it. We ended up having him tutored at home every Sunday from March to May prior to the May '09 exam. He didn’t do the homework they asked him to do (argghhh) but he never complained and spent part of his Sunday afternoons devoted to SAT prep.</p>
<p>He still came in at the 61st percentile–nothing to write home about–but better than the PSAT and good enough to reach the middle 50% of three out of four colleges he applied/will apply to.</p>
<p>If he had done things his mother’s way (haha), he would have retaken in October of this year and gotten closer to 80th% percentile and been a stronger college applicant. But S is not the student I was, has a relaxed temperament when I wish he was more competitive schoolwise, and makes different decisions than I would. Now that he is 17, I’m learning to accept that he doesn’t always see things the way I do, and that’s o.k.</p>