Lower GPA higher SAT

<p>My son falls into the category of lower GPA B- and higher SAT 2330. We had him in private school until 9th grade then moved him to public where they had a better selection of math and science. His old school did not grade homework as it was very small and they knew where each student was. He was always on top of his subjects and did homework only as needed. New public school was huge and graded homework. He didn't begin comploying until the beginning of his junior year as he really fought the concept of doing homework just to do it (we tried to tell him but...). Senior year he is back on the honor roll but 9th and 10th were C averages. He has almost all AP classes and is looking to major in physics. He was accepted at local state schools in PA but feels that he can't get in anywhere else. While state schools are not "out" as some have some excellent physics program I would like to see him have more options in his selection. Any suggestions or thoughts on good options that might understand the situation?</p>

<p>I am sure there are schools out there that will appreciate his potential. I know for instance that Northeastern raises any AP class a whole grade and honors 1/2 grade. (not sure about physics there though). RPI also- during their info session they say they would admit a student with a B average over a student with an A average if the B student took all the honors/ap classes and had good SAT scores. It seems some college really weight those SAT scores and your sons certainly are great. So, I would definately get some apps out at some schools with good physics programs and see what happens. Good Luck!!</p>

<p>Don't automaticly assume all top schools are out. Well rounded with passion in activities might, repeat might, overcome a low GPA. Never hurts to try.</p>

<p>I agree that RPI would be a good school to look at as high SAT would be looked at more than the B-, assuming the rest of the application had no glaring holes.</p>

<p>Two years ago I followed saga of a young man who applied to UChicago EA, was deferred, then wait listed, and then finally accepted, with a 2.9 GPA. It took a lot of work on his part, extra recommendations, calls, emails, etc., but he did it.</p>

<p>Some schools completley ignore freshman grades so that could bring him up a bit. Also, based on what you wrote, I assume he has an upward trend in his grades over 4 years-that is also a positive thing that an admissions person will look at. </p>

<p>Wherever you decide to apply, make sure your son includes an explanation for his performance. It does not have to be long or wordy. Just the facts. "Coming from a small private school, I had a tough time adjusting to the workload as a freshman in a large public high school. I have learned to balance my coursework and have progressively achieved higher grades. I am capable of doing the work as illustrated by my performance over the last two years and my SAT score..." Something like that.</p>

<p>In CA, on the UC application, they actually have a place to list this sort of thing.</p>

<p>The PA state schools I don't think would be any kind of challenge for him, unless you mean PSU, Pitt or possibly Temple, which would have a stronger "high end".</p>

<p>Another option...go to one of the state schools (where he should really stand out), get grades and recommendations he's capable of getting, then transfer.</p>

<p>Your son could also apply to a range of schools, leaving the option open of enrolling for a year at a state school, with the idea of fulfilling basic requirements, establishing a track record, and transfering someplace more selective. Admissions become be more difficult as a transfer, but with his test scores and a solid college record, I think he could be a strong candidate.</p>

<p>Edit: 2331clk beat me to it . . . two great minds :)</p>

<p>What admission deadlines are still open for this year's current seniors? Not looking at other colleges until 18 January 2007 of his senior year may be the trickiest issue here. </p>

<p>Good luck in the application process. It's often more motivating to be in college than in high school for kids who score high on the SAT.</p>

<p>US News just published a list of schools with late deadlines or still open rolling admissions. I was amazed at how many there were, several hundred (and many are not unknown quantities, at least until you get into the summer deadline tier):</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/premium/webex/Getting_a_late_start_premium.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/premium/webex/Getting_a_late_start_premium.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This may require a subscription?</p>

<p>I think his best option would be Grove City College. It's in PA, great engineering school (i.e. good physics department also) and I think his SAT's should pull him through.</p>

<p>jewel21 -
I suspect that your son has more options than he thinks he does. He can realistically look at some very good schools. In our area, Ohio Wesleyan, the College of Wooster and Ohio University are all possibilities. St. Olaf (in Minnesota) and Allegheny (near Erie) might be of interest. As long as he has a financial safety or two, he should apply where he likes and where finances are feasible. Best of luck to you and your son - remind him that nobody has a perfect application.</p>

<p>Why do boys not understand the importance of doing/handing in homework, even if it is a necessary evil??? Been there, done that, my sympathy to you as a parent. Any school that looks at HS senior grades would never accept my son as a transfer (he had a case of senioritis, but also grades that inched downward after some 4.0s secondary to the homework issue). I know UW Madison has rolling admissions until Feb 1- his GPA may blow it for him, unless his most recent grades are really high. Strong letters of recommendation and vast improvement in grades may make the difference. Son is in Honors calc and physics there and they are great- very theoretical, small classes and lots of professor contact. He's a physics major, finally applied there in Jan. last year. Schools would rather see rising than falling grades.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the responses. We will take a look at the recommendations. I know this will make him feel that there are more options out there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why do boys not understand the importance of doing/handing in homework, even if it is a necessary evil???

[/quote]
Or said another way ... why do schools sometimes force kids to comply to and complete assignments that do not aid their learning experience? Doing things "because" is certainly a life lesson that must be learned ... but so is questioning and trying to change those situation where the "because" really does not make sense. In my experience in college and grad school probably the 2 main work habit lessons learned were 1) be discplined and stay ahead of your work and 2) prioritize your work and selectively neglect some of the assigned work (because it was impossible to do everything assigned)</p>

<p>my DD originally wanted to major in bio or perhaps physics. Her cousin is a tenured (young) college professor in physics, who did UCSD, then Harvard. Rutgers for postdoc, then went to study at the Institute (PU) after completing the postdoc. This is his list of some favorite undergrad science schools. He is very up on public undergrad work. </p>

<p>Rutgers is excellent in science. Other excellent choices are
University of California, University of Colorado Boulder, University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, and SUNY Stony Brook.
UC schools that are strongest in physics are Berkeley, UC Santa
Barbara,
and UCSD. UCLA is also good.</p>

<p>some boys just do not understand homework-it does seem much more common! Take heart. It usually passes. Two local tales, one mine. DS does up/down til senior year of h.s., hardcore EC karate and marching band fanatic. Off to lac, become frat-man and back to up/down. Transfers to state college (much harder, much cheaper) starts pulling grades up. Graduates with 3.2 I think. gets real job. works 1.5 yr., studies for LSAT. high score on LSAT. Works like a dog in law school. gets recruited by big local firm. Starts at high salary. owns small part of catering company as well through law school - opens restaraunt a month before law job. Works 7 days a week. HAPPY.
Boy two. Not going to college, so why bother. April of senior year - wants to attend college. oops. Goes to CC. bumbles, up/down grades. leaves. move to NY state. goes to CC. up/down grades. leaves. 2 yrs later, back to NYS, and CC. works hard, good grades. discovers hidden talent for computer security. teacher helps him into 4 year school. good grades. recruited by company. good job. within the year married. following year -better job, new town, and is a hard working dad.
Never think that any school experience is the end of the line. The only issue I've seen, and could be wrong these days, is that the culture is more forgiving of boys who do this than girls.</p>

<p>Your son has dug himself into a bit of a hole. Now a senior he had C avgs fresh and soph years and did not make the honor roll junior year. I assume his class rank, if the have one, is quite poor too so he is placing his hopes on that SAT score and midterm grades.</p>

<p>First off, he can cross most state flagship universities with excellent physics programs off his list as they are largely numbers driven in admissions.</p>

<p>The rest depends on how admin officers will view the vast discrepancy between gpa and SAT. Will they view him as a talented slacker, worried that he will continue/revert to these ways in college. Or will they see him as an immature boy who is now taking his education seriously and admit based on the potential demonstrated in his SAT score.</p>

<p>Of course now application deadlines have passed so he has one best option IMHO. Attend one of the colleges which he has been accepted to and compile an excellent first semester record both by gpa and the courses selected. He should take as challenging a schedule as possible and with a gpa of 3.5+ and that SAT score, his transfer applications will be much more impressive than his hs application is.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>UC Boulder has extended app deadline to Feb 15. They have a superb physics dept and that SAT score is at their top end. The adcoms are identified by region and are quite responsive to email.</p>

<p>Well they could assume he was in a very competitive hs where a 3.0 is far tougher to get than a 4.0 at another school...</p>

<p>"The only issue I've seen, and could be wrong these days, is that the culture is more forgiving of boys who do this than girls."</p>

<p>That could be true, but not always. My niece has the most checkered academic career I have ever heard of - emotional issues (likely from her dad's death when she was 3) - running away in HS, being sent to one of those Desisto places, attending college, flunking out, working child care, returning to school at Bryant and Stratton for a paralegal cert, returning to college and graduating with honors, attending law school at UT Austin (turning down, I think, Gtown and UChicago) .... anyway, she passed the bar first shot, loves her job, and is making about twice as much as I am. But, she's a stubborn person, and doesn't give up easily. Live is full of different paths - perhaps even more interesting if they are not quite as straight and well maintained as we would like.</p>

<p>To the OP and son - don't give up!</p>