<p>I think you need to look at this differently. </p>
<p>No one is “expecting” middle class families to pay for a pricey school. Pricey schools are a LUXURY. Going away to school is a LUXURY. It’s all a CHOICE. There are many cheaper alternatives. </p>
<p>*I feel like my daughter has worked so hard to get perfect grades but she might not be able to attend her top choice school because I don’t have 30 k laying around! *</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I just don’t “get that.” My older son just graduated from college this semester. When he graduated from high school, he was the Valedictorian of his class, he had the highest GPA the school had every recorded, he had very high test scores, he was a National Merit Finalist…and I didn’t think he deserved some pricey school just because he worked so hard. He took a full ride scholarship to a mid-tier flagship. He’s graduated, and he’ll be starting his PhD at a Top 20 school in August…all with full merit tuition and large stipend. His entire BS to PhD will probably have cost us …hmmm…maybe $10k total. LOL</p>
<p>My younger son had almost similar stats…he has nearly a full-ride scholarship at his school. His entire BS will probably cost us…hmm… $12k. He’ll graduate in 2 years and then we’ll help him with med school. </p>
<p>My boys haven’t missed out. They’ve stayed in the school’s top honors dorms, they’ve had wonderful honors college experiences, they are getting a great education, and they are having the “full college experience” at a spirited flagship… </p>
<p>I think a lot of this hand-wringing is unnecessary. Yes, these kids work hard (which they are supposed to do!!). But, that doesn’t equate to parents emptying their savings accts or going into serious debt…especially when there are less expensive alteratives. </p>
<p>BTW…If your income jumps in 2012 from bonuses and/or working your job, that just means that you’ll get no aid the following year. It’s not like the school is going to use this year’s income to determine aid for all 4 years.</p>
<p>*mom2collegekids you quoted my paragraph about the effect of savings on EFC but ignored the paragraph after that regarding the asset protection allowance. The $50K (plus or minus) allowance was covered there. *</p>
<p>You’re right. </p>
<p>That said, I think the point of asset protection should be mentioned first, then the formula…because first the asset protection is applied and then the effect on EFC takes place. </p>
<p>I made a spreadsheet using variety of scenarios that I plugged into DS’s school EFC estimates (Profile school). That way you can get a good idea of what affects EFC and how much. For most people that might be a waste of time but for those who have a business and can move money around, it can be helpful. </p>
<p>For example, if you own a corporation that employs you, and it has a SEP retirement plan, you can have your ‘employer’ half put money in your ‘employee’ retirement. That is not part of CSS. Also, some employers may be willing to reduce your pay while increasing contributions to employer sponsored SEP etc. </p>
<p>It’s complicated.</p>
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<p>I figured out that my marginal increase in EFC is 75%, as in 75cents of every take home dollar is going to my EFC. For every $1000 I get paid, $120 is left after taxes and EFC. Not worth it. But I can’t change it now because I need the income to pay this years EFC which is based on last years income :D.</p>
<p>With DD who is coming up in a few years and is the last kid, I am going to pre-reduce my income starting 1.5 years before she starts college down to <80K, maybe even <60K.</p>
<p>If your SEP contribution shows up on Line #28 of your Form 1040, the financial aid offices just add that back into your AGI, just like they do for a contribution to 401k.</p>
<p>Mom2college kids: I don’t expect something for nothing. But I do think our government places more emphasis on tax breaks for big business and oil than it does education - and not just education in college but from preschool on up. And this does make me sad. And the middle class is getting decimated in republican controlled state legislatures nowadays and that makes me furious. I also realize that our income will most likely increase in 2012 but I have to do whatever I can to pay with cash this year. You are not aware of our intimate financial situation/details so please don’t make assumptions. I feel as if you are trying to discredit everything I say and I don’t know why. I am glad your son has thrived, that is awesome! I am still allowed my opinion though, and I believe our government should put more toward education. I don’t expect it should pay me 30k per year to send my kids to school but offering more subsidized loans to a greater percentage of the population would be more beneficial than making sure BofA pays zero taxes. The gap between rich and poor grows ever wider and that is hurting our society. I am a proud democratic socialist. Bernie sanders is my idol.:)</p>
<p>It’s worth pointing out, perhaps, that the reason the mid-tier flagship could deliver a fine education–often, pretty much the same education as that delivered by the “pricy” schools-- is that it has been subsidized by taxpayers. State support of such institutions is getting slashed everywhere, even as these schools become increasingly attractive to middle-class families because of their historically lower tuitions. So the “send your kids to the state flagship” strategy–which is the one I’m using myself–may not work out so well in future years.</p>
<p>^^ Very true, jingle. And the COA of my state flagship is already more than double that of mom2collegekid’s flagship, putting it out of reach for many middle-class families. And there are probably more tuition hikes and educational service cuts to come.</p>
<p>^^ In the current environment, I don’t think you’re being alarmist. In fact, I think it’s smart to assume that your very good state university will become less and less affordable over the coming few years. Incredibly, the no-new-taxes crowd still seems to have all the power.</p>
<p>I can see both sides of the above discussion. S1 went charging through high school and landed in the gravy (good college acceptances, good financial aid). S2 is every bit as bright and wonderful but had a more choppy passage through high school. For him, the financial aid was . . . nada. </p>
<p>It is heartbreaking. Part of it is the economy – but part of it is also the system. While mom2collegekids is feeling grand that college wasn’t too expensive for her two high flyers, please know that there is practically no support for the middle class 3.2 to 3.4 GPA kid. That encompasses a ton of smart, decent, very hard working kids who may be struggling with dyslexia, health problems or family challenges that in no way are their fault. Some are kids who just haven’t “hit their stride” yet – but will with just a little more time. </p>
<p>Even picking a state, non-flagship school doesn’t solve these financial aid problems. </p>
<p>The FAFSA does need to be reworked. To me, one of the nuttiest parts is that a family that has managed to squirrel away some money for college gets hammered in Year One of college (ie, you have to empty out the whole piggy bank for the first year – you can’t say “We have $20K saved for college and could pay $5K for each of four years”).</p>
<p>Olymom, that would describe my middle son. What we are hoping is that his special gifts and talents (cello, game design, writing and language) will have a place somewhere. He won’t be applying to selective colleges but there are several private Christian colleges that might reward his unique gifts with some significant scholarships if we play our cards right now, seek out these colleges, and hone the talent in the next 3 years. He is type 1 diabetic with some learning disabilities and we want him to stay local so I know what we’re dealing with and can help him focus on making himself attractive for these local schools.</p>
<p>mspearl - I am guessing you are from Ohio. Since you are considering Kent State you might also look at Ohio University. OU offers full in-state tuition with an ACT of 32 and good grades. Kent and OU are both great Ohio public schools. You might also check Youngstown State and see if there is a program there that appeals to your daughter. YSU is “not as prestigious as Kent State” but some programs there are great and Youngstown can be generous with full tuition scholarships. Good luck!</p>
<p>Midwest mom: Yes, OU is on our list along with Kent, OSU and Miami. I would say except for OSU which is getting more selective every year, the rest are her safety schools, financially and academically. I honestly haven’t thought about youngstown but I will check it out. Thanks!</p>
<p>It is indeed heartbreaking that the very kids who may need access to and who may most benefit from the the smaller schools (like LACs) often are being priced out of those schools. (To quote Olymom: “That encompasses a ton of smart, decent, very hard working kids who may be struggling with dyslexia, health problems or family challenges that in no way are their fault. Some are kids who just haven’t “hit their stride” yet – but will with just a little more time.”) </p>
<p>Even with our S1 (an awesome student with good test scores and many, many AP classes, but not a top-10 scholar), the outcome hasn’t turned out like we would have expected. </p>
<p>And kudos to you, OP, for starting the investigation of this process now. You’ll be glad you did. :)</p>
<p>Hang in there, all. DH was a middling HS student and so-so college student – including doing one drop out stint where he bussed tables for six months. He went on to do highly regarded research for his PhD and has earned international recognition for his work (and is a throughly decent man to boot). </p>
<p>Some kids ripen slower. (And their parents pay full price for that truth . . .)</p>
<p>I’m so glad that some states still have universities that will give merit aid to high-scoring students. Let me say that my D1 got into the state flagships in my state (CA), but with the fee increases every year, it is by now substantially less expensive for her to attend the top-10 private college where she gets substantial financial aid, with no loans. It is not inexpensive, but she will graduate debt free. Initially, the cost seemed like a wash, just a tad more expensive that the two UCs where she got Regents, but about the same as UCLA/Berkeley. Now, it is definitely less. Her sister, HS class of 2012, will be hard-pressed to get into any of the UCs with a B+ average (many honors and AP classes) given the kids we know who had trouble getting in this year. She is working on getting her test scores up. This is a student who has wonderful work habits, is positive, enthusiastic, creative. She does not procrastinate on tasks. She has a very mild ld for which she has refused to take an modifications due to the fact that she feels the work world/real world will not. We have respected that, in she can truly accept her accomplishments as her own, rather than possibly in part accounted for due to difference in expectations (e.g., more time. And, btw, I also know that for some kids the modifications or accommodations are a MUST for them to manage in the regular curriculum).</p>
<p>It will be full-freight at the CSUs, and by the way, I also think that it is fine for financial aid to go to children in poverty. But, it is frustrating to realize you will be paying full-freight for schools in which kids are having a hard time getting required classes and that provide little flexibility. I do truly wish we lived in a state which put more emphasis in keeping its good students in state by providing some merit options. Instead, they are courting out-of-state students. Sorry to rant… My sister lives in the Southeast US. Her kids will get mega merit to attend their state flagship. And yes, some of us will pay because we have slower-ripening fruit.</p>
<p>Mamita,
Interesting perspective. UF is our flagship, and the Worm could have gone there for free. However, they are not strong in his field. Had we lived in CA, UB would have been a terrific choice. A girl in his math/sci classes at the CC chose to attend UB. This was in 2004.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. Since as we know so many states have budget issues, it is no wonder they court full pay OOS students.</p>
<p>Bookworm–I thought Florida offered soemthing like the Hope in Ga, called Bright Futures? Isn’t the max for that like less than 4k a semester at the highest award? I thought UFs in state was closer to 20K which makes it about 17k for for in staters- even with the merit thing going for them.</p>
<p>Seems the OOS tuition is about 3x an IS one in many flagships.</p>
<p>OP–Any planning you do to affect your EFC must be done about 2 years before your student attends college…because of the base year which will be the calendar yr of your student’s Jr spring/Sr fall.
Earlier - than that–is better.
In our experience, the FAFSA vs Profile and each institution varies very widely…as will opinions.</p>
<p>“Enter the amount of of deductible IRA and/or SEP, SIMPLE, or Keough payments your parents made in 2010 as reported on their 2010 IRS Form 1040, lines 28 and 32.” </p>
<p>In other words, it is very difficult to hide tax deferred income from the colleges.
A “Business/Farm Supplement” is usually required on the PROFILE for parents who own their own business or farm. </p>
<p>You will not get the benefit of tax deferred income if it doesn’t show up on line 28 or 32.</p>