<p>So engr/scientists/mathematicians make the building, product, manage people, write the programs/ develop new ideas/ create materials/improve stuff and liberal arts… help us talk about our feelings? Chose people based on subjective reasoning? idk</p>
<p>Ok, maybe I went a little too far. I have nothing against problem solving, but I don’t consider “philosophy problem solving” on the same level as engr problem solving, or a scientist problem solving or even a business man or something.</p>
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<p>I’d like to see solid proof that only engineers, mathematicians, and scientists can manage people. A good manager is a good manager, regardless of his or her major or field of interest.</p>
<p>L S all dAy</p>
<p>oh here we go again…STEM vs liberal arts fight</p>
<p>I just want to point out that a lot of LSA students majoring in joke concentrations sneer at business/engineering/science majors for putting themselves through pain “just for the money and getting a job”, but they need to **** because 95% of the people who choose such difficult majors actually enjoy math, physics, etc, and the critical thinking involved. </p>
<p>People can be just as passionate about math or programming, just because you suck at it or hate things like that doesn’t mean someone else can’t enjoy it. I know the people I am talking about are going to read this post so please ****. kthxbye</p>
<p>MLD, you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, but I am not taking the bait, because it would not be a fair fight 
I’m all over STEM. Do what you love, or what you’re good at.
Just don’t denigrate the value of liberal arts pursuits. You might end up biting the hand that feeds. You will encounter many well-rounded leaders in your career who do not share your background or your attitude. And you will need to get along with them.
Eg. You can probably skate circles around a friend of mine who was not an especially talented ENG student 25-30 years ago, and who did not hail from a reputable program such as yours. But he was curious and well-versed and pursued knowledge outside his field. Personality plus. He has surpassed many of his peers (and your peers), and now leads a major division of a Fortune 500 co. He has a plethora of chem engs beneath him. So be careful of your assumptions. There are many paths to successful living.</p>
<p>I have a D who is currently a senior at UMich and a Cognitive Psych major. She is in the process of applying to Med schools. LS&A classes vary in difficulty depending on which route you plan to take through college. You will soon discover that in order to graduate in 4 years and be pre-med you will need to find a major where the pre-med classes (Orgo I & II, calculus, several Chemistry classes, biology, genetics, etc.) can also count for the requirements for your major. If you can AP out of some of them more power to you. Most of my D’s friends who are pre-med often took Physics or Orgo I at some nearby college during the summer months. We are OOS, so she did not take them at UMich. In order to get credit at Michigan, you need to take these classes at a 4-yr IHE not at a community college. </p>
<p>As to the classes themselves, normally the pre-med classes are filled with very bright students. In her orgo classes about 1/3 were engineering majors. In Orgo II, she started with close to 400 students and about mid-way through about 150 had dropped out. Having said that, these are meant to be weeding courses, but the professors do provide huge curves in the grading. </p>
<p>Her psych courses have also been tough and she is currently taking two of them in the med school which has lots of graduate students in the class. So while Michigan is not easy by comparison to other colleges where her friends who are also pre-med attend, it does prepare you well for the MCAT and for how to conduct research.</p>
<p>The minute you step on campus get involved in EC activities. She has done research in a lab with the Research scholars program and presented a paper at a student conference in Wisconsin. Best Buddies is a great organization which pairs college kids with developmentally challenged teens and she has volunteered at two different departments in the hospital. Med schools want to see that you showed interest in your community and had leadership opportunities. </p>
<p>There is a pre-med group on campus that you can also join. The pre-med counseling department is good and keeps you on track for the things you need to do to get into med-school. The process is very grueling, so I don’t recommend you start on this path unless you are committed. She often has to explain to sorority sisters why she can’t go to the bars or a formal because she is either studying for a test (about 1-3 every other week on average), writing a paper or completing applications.</p>
<p>Good luck and I hope you enjoy Michigan.</p>
<p>I have a D who is currently a senior at UMich and a Cognitive Psych major. She is in the process of applying to Med schools. LS&A classes vary in difficulty depending on which route you plan to take through college. You will soon discover that in order to graduate in 4 years and be pre-med you will need to find a major where the pre-med classes (Orgo I & II, calculus, several Chemistry classes, biology, genetics, etc.) can also count for the requirements for your major. If you can AP out of some of them more power to you. Most of my D’s friends who are pre-med often took Physics or Orgo I at some nearby college during the summer months. We are OOS, so she did not take them at UMich. In order to get credit at Michigan, you need to take these classes at a 4-yr IHE not at a community college. </p>
<p>As to the classes themselves, normally the pre-med classes are filled with very bright students. In her orgo classes about 1/3 were engineering majors. In Orgo II, she started with close to 400 students and about mid-way through about 150 had dropped out. Having said that, these are meant to be weeding courses, but the professors do provide huge curves in the grading. </p>
<p>Her psych courses have also been tough and she is currently taking two of them in the med school which has lots of graduate students in the class. So while Michigan is not easy by comparison to other colleges where her friends who are also pre-med attend, it does prepare you well for the MCAT and for how to conduct research.</p>
<p>The minute you step on campus get involved in EC activities. She has done research in a lab with the Research scholars program and presented a paper at a student conference in Wisconsin. Best Buddies is a great organization which pairs college kids with developmentally challenged teens and she has volunteered at two different departments in the hospital. Med schools want to see that you showed interest in your community and had leadership opportunities. </p>
<p>There is a pre-med group on campus that you can also join. The pre-med counseling department is good and keeps you on track for the things you need to do to get into med-school. The process is very grueling, so I don’t recommend you start on this path unless you are committed. She often has to explain to sorority sisters why she can’t go to the bars or a formal because she is either studying for a test (about 1-3 every other week on average), writing a paper or completing applications.</p>
<p>Good luck and I hope you enjoy Michigan.</p>
<p>I never said that STEM majors are in it for the money and actually do understand why people enjoy these subjects. And I’ll be the first to acknowledge that the world can’t survive without mathematicians, engineers, and other scientists. So please don’t put words in my mouth.</p>
<p>@MoltoBene, thanks for the great response!</p>
<p>@everyone else, how did we even get to the topic of which majors are best/provide the best opportunities/jobs? lol, all I was asking about was if the premed courses at UMich fall under the general stereotype of 'L,S and plAY". </p>
<p>From what I gather, they do not. What % of the students in these classes get As? (bio, chem, physics, etc.). What is the curve like?</p>
<p>what kind of question is that? Of course not. Saying that your in LSA to a engineer/ross student might make them think you have a lot of free time but if you say your pre-med or econ, physics, etc. they probably won’t think that. </p>
<p>and why does it matter what “stereotype” something falls into. this is college, do what you want</p>
<p>MLDWoody, you are really ignorant. Try finishing your freshman (right?) year before trying to tell people about what engineering majors do. Try accomplishing something significant before developing the typical engineering superiority complex.</p>
<p>I’m a senior computer science major, btw.</p>
<p>There is a crap load of busy work in many engineering courses. That probably depends on what you define to be “busy” work, but in my experience, I am constantly bombarded with assignments I care nothing about. It’s not limited to LSA courses. You’ll realize this once you reach your senior year.</p>
<p>Your view of philosophy is childish. I have neither seen nor taken a single class that meets your bizarre idea of what such a class is like; maybe you just had some horrible teachers in high school. I can’t even respond to this point in more detail because your sentences made little sense to me.</p>
<p>Why does it matter how hard something is? So you can feel superior to someone else because your major is “harder?” </p>
<p>Engineering does not objectively have more of a point than any LSA major has. It is all subjective. Who are you to say what someone enjoys is useless and should not be studied? If everyone studied computer science or mechanical engineering, the world would be extremely boring for many people. What is the point of life if you’re only living to do what other people think is valuable, rather than what you enjoy? That seems very pointless, to me.</p>
<p>Dunno why I’m bothering, so I’ll stop here.</p>
<p>@OP: It’s not hard to do well in pre-med courses (I know plenty of people who have), but you probably won’t have a very easy time. From some of the classes I’ve taken, I’d say about 25-30% of the students receive some sort of A, more as a matter of work ethic than of intelligence. Especially physics/orgo/etc - as long as you do a lot of practice (something not everyone is willing to do), you should have a very good chance of doing well.</p>
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<p>Right on.</p>
<p>What I think is valuable and what I enjoy is the same thing.</p>
<p>I certainly did not imply the opposite. The key words were “other” and “people.”</p>
<p>I just saw a statistic that had compiled undergrad majors and med school acceptances. Philosophy majors had the highest MCATs and the highest acceptance rate (66% I think it was) of all undergrad majors among the medical students. If I can remember where the link is I’ll post. I found it interesting.</p>
<p>^That’s interesting. I thought math majors had the highest MCAT scores on average.</p>
<p>@KenLewis, only 25-30%? Is that low or is that average at most schools? That seems really brutal. Any idea what percent of solely As are given out? (not A-'s)</p>
<p>I’ve never been in a class where 30% of the students got some sort of an A. The grade distribution for Orgo 2 (all premeds take it, and I’d say its difficulty is on par with the typical engineering class) last semester is this:</p>
<p>A+ = 5
A = 59
A- = 74
B+ = 100
B = 132
B- = 140
C+ = 118
C = 80
C- = 46
D+ = 36
D = 24
D- = 16
E = 25</p>
<p>Don’t worry about your GPA before you even come to the university, and don’t worry about LSA being the “bad” school. From what I’ve seen, the science majors here are as rigorous as any of the engineering majors.</p>
<p>25-30% is actually pretty high, but I’m a CS major, so my experience is skewed. However, the Physics courses I took used a curved scale (something like scoring 80-85% of the total points possible = A), and if I remember correctly, about 25% of the students during my semester received some sort of A. Maybe a little less. I’m not sure how many As (and not A-s) were awarded. I also have a friend who took another upper level science course - don’t remember what exactly, might have been bio or neuroscience - that was curved around an A-. This changes depending on the professor teaching the course.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry if you’re the type of person who keeps up with material and doesn’t cram the night before an exam. If you are, I’d worry a little, but even then, it’s very possible to still do well. Doing a ton of practice problems makes the exams much easier (at least in physics).</p>
<p>^^Could be old data…Math was up there and so was biomedical engineering…that’s all I remembered, all other majors were about the same in distribution it was philosophy that jumped out at me.</p>
<p>@Pros28, I was actually hoping that the core science majors were easier 
</p>
<p>Another question: Is it wise to test out and take upper level classes? Which is more ideal: </p>
<p>a) Stay in an intro. level science class and try to get an A (because of feeling confident and knowing the material well)
b) Test out and take upper level classes in science in which the curves are more favorable? (Are they more favorable, and to what extent…Med schools usually just state ‘2 semesters of biology’, so I would assume courses like the neuroscience one stated 2 posts above w. a curve of A- would fall into this category)</p>