LSE & UCL questions!

Applying to College
1

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>I am an international student attending a college prep high school in massachusetts. </p>

<p>I was looking at different American colleges, then I thought, "I can't work in the United States as a foreigner, that means no paid internship during college."</p>

<p>I want to go into ibanking so I thought Columbia + ib firm intern would have been great but unfortunately, I am not allowed to make any money in this country.</p>

<p>On the other hand, London is another financial huge center and a home to many ib firms. I can work upto 20 hours per week. and I think thats enough for an undergrad intern. So I started looking into different schools in London. LSE and UCL are the two that I thought had all the aspects that I wanted.</p>

<p>Now specific questions!</p>

<ol>
<li><p>How hard is it to get into LSE-UCL?
(In America, Im thinking UPENN, Columbia, UChicago, Wharton, Dartmouth...I have very strong extra curricular activities, but a relatively low sat score of 2250. now problem? i have a 650 reading 800 math 800 writing. I can hopefully bring my reading up to somewhere near 700 this fall. Do British colleges take super scores?)</p></li>
<li><p>Job prospects of LSE-UCL?</p></li>
<li><p>Prestige difference between Oxbridge and LSE-UCL?</p></li>
<li><p>Prestige difference between LSE-UCL and Ivies?
Im thinking HPY - LSE - Columbia PENN UCL Dartmouth Brown - Cornell</p></li>
<li><p>Should I try oxbridge???</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thank You!</p>

<p>P.S.</p>

<p>If I get into LSE-UCL, I might be
"an international student who went to middle school and high school in the US and college in the UK. and he has an american accent but lives in london. but is actually from seoul :P " <- complicated muchh?? hahaha</p>

2

<p>As far as I know with UK student visa you can work 20 hours a week in term time and full time during the holidays. In other words, there are no working hour limits for summer internships for international students.</p>

<p>You need to get some top SAT/AP/IB scores in relevant subjects (look at the A-level subject requirements). ECs are irrelevant.</p>

<p>You won’t be unusual in London. There are 7 million people here from all over the world.</p>

3

<p>so far, I got a 4 on APMEH my sophomore year, i took 4 aps my junior year, Im thinking 3 5’s and 1 4. Then my senior year, ill be taking 5 aps. I think I will end up with at least 5 5’s and the rest 5’s and 4’s. I heard LSE requires at least 5 5’s and UCL 5 4’s and 5’s. </p>

<p>I got an 800 in math II, 770 in US History, 750 in Chemistry.
I got an 800 in Writing, 800 in Math, 650 in Reading (But I have one more chance to bring this up)
My GPA is about 4.1 out of 4.3 (approximately top 1%)</p>

<p>I interned at a global financial firm… did a lot of EC… but all this won’t help?</p>

<p>I like the “20 hour in term / full time holiday” policy of the UK :)</p>

<p>Thanks for the info!</p>

4

<p>Regarding APs, So far, I got </p>

<p>4 in APMEH (10th)</p>

<p>i would assume </p>

<p>5 in BC Calc (11th)
5 in Chemistry (11th)
5 in US History (11th)
4 in English Language (11th)</p>

<p>and for senior years</p>

<p>5 in Macroeconomics (12th)
5 in Microeconomics (12th)
5 in Physics B (12th)
5 in Computer Science (12th)
4 in Chinese (12th)
4 in English Literature (12th)</p>

<p>I heard I’m better off not sending my 4’s in. is it true?
and im taking math classes at Harvard Next year, will this help?</p>

<p>Plus what are some things that would matter?
I know being a non-EU helps bcuz we pay the full tuition.</p>

5

<p>Prestige is essentially someone else’s opinion of the school.</p>

<p>There is no official “prestige list” which says this is the agreement of the whole world.</p>

<p>I very strongly advise you to select a school based on whether you like the course (most important in the UK), employability of the course (based on stats on the views of random strangers on the web), how the course fits in with your career aspirations, likelihood of acceptance (look at school websites for admissions criteria), affordability and whether you want to live in the location. Prestige is a ridiculous criteria to wholly or even partially base your selection on. Imagine if you are accepted to LSE and are enjoying the course. Then your neighbour in the US says she has never heard of it. Doesn’t carry much weight with her. Are you going to drop out? Transfer? This will happen time and time again. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. You need to make yourself happy! Also, do you seriously believe that employers routinely turn down LSE graduates because the school is less prestigeous than school X or Y? If they do, you don’t want to work for them. </p>

<p>Given that you seem to have no interest in LSE or UCL yourself, only interest in what other people think of them, I think they are likely to be a very poor choice for you. Is there any reason at all why YOU want to attend either of these schools, which is not based on the opinion of others? I don’t mean this to be harsh, and perhaps you are under pressure from parents or teachers, but you have to make yourself happy over such a major decision as this.</p>

6

<p>haha sorry about the “prestige” issue. When I used the word “prestige,” I meant prestige as in “popularity among investment firms.” (because In America, firms will choose Harvard grads over UChicago grads just because of their prestige, despite the fact that UChicago offers a better undergrad economics program.)</p>

<p>If investment banking firms in the US are going to prefer Wharton over LSE, I would choose Wharton. If investment bankin firms in the US regard LSE on par with Wharton, then I will choose either of them, considering other factors such as tuition, location, etc.</p>

<p>What I meant by prestige was “how global investment firms feel” about LSE, not some random girl in my town.</p>

<p>In my case, what I care the most about colleges</p>

<ol>
<li>Job prospect (and by “prestige” i meant this)</li>
<li>Experience - Location</li>
<li>Price</li>
</ol>

<p>and Yes, I am interested in LSE and UCL, more LSE than UCL, since LSE has a stronger economics major and thus will provide me with better future. Yet, going to another new country to study is a big adventure for me, so Im trying to get as much information as I can before I actually try.</p>

<p>For me, the biggest appeals that LSE has will be its 1. academic prowess, 2. great location (potential internship opportunities), 3. new culture (i have experienced Asian culture and American culture, but never European so far.)</p>

<h1>1 can be gained in any other American colleges, but I can get #2 only in British colleges. (esp those in london since there are more investment firms in London than in Oxford, or in Cambridge). for #3, I think the UK colleges will be the only European colleges that I;m applying to, since I do not plan on learning a 4th language. (3 is enough… :slight_smile: )</h1>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

7

<p>Check out the - student room (a British version of CC)…you will have a lot more luck there. they have a really good post dedicated to American students applying to UK unis.</p>

8

<p>UK universities are far inferior to American ones. As someone that has gone through both systems LSE and a top american one LSE is a complete scam. The only people that seem to be proud of it were the british, and the elite from the middle east and south asia that buy prestige. Stick to a top American uni.</p>

9

<p>Wow that was some strong diction you provided, BJ.</p>

<p>but is there any specific reason that made you think UK colleges are “far inferior to” American colleges?</p>

<p>I’m thinking</p>

<p>HPYSMCW>=Oxbridge>rest of ivies except cornell + Chicago = LSE>UCL + Imperial=Cornell + Northwestern + Duke</p>

<p>(C for Caltech & W for Wharton)</p>

<p>I mean, LSE economics major is a pretty respected background for anyone planning on going into Investment Banking. (im thinking its about the same as Wharton Undergrad or UChicago-Columbia Economics major)</p>

<p>I think UK colleges can be easier just because they don’t require you to be a</p>

<p>varsity athlete/state musician/clubleader/USAMO/internship/400hr+ community service/life changing experience essays</p>

<p>but they are still excellent schools (what i mean by this = top 10 american colleges such as chicago, penn, columbia…)</p>

<p>I would love a four year American college experience at UPENN. (brotherhood, friends for life, college parties, Liberal Arts Education)
But I think LSE’s cosmopolitan culture can easily compensate.</p>

<p>could you elaborate a little bit more please??</p>

10

<p>Unless you did two undergraduate degrees BlueJayBJ, one at LSE and one in the US, you are not qualified to make such a ridiculous assertion.</p>

<p>Whilst it is true that many of LSE’s masters programmes are used as cash cows to raise money from international students, it is also true that they demand a level of independence and self study that is seldom found at US universities. If you weren’t prepared for that then that is your own fault, do your research better next time. LSE’s undergraduate and doctorate programmes are world leading and are not inferior in any way to top tier American schools - they’re just different.</p>

<p>Are you really judging the entire British higher education model on your one bad experience? If you feel short-changed because the LSE did not conform to your American expectations of how education should be then you shouldn’t have gone in the first place.</p>

11

<p>I can judge it by also being an employer in a foreign country where I interviewed students from both top american universities and Oxbridge LSE UCL SOAS. The quality of students was incomparable. British higher ed does not prep students to think, especially undergraduates at Oxbridge where the term academic incest sums up the culture. I interviewed 6 kids from Oxford and 8 from Cambridge and when I had to correct their lack of knowledge in the areas they claimed to be experts on because they were in their university’s oriental studies department the reaction was all the same “You must be wrong because my tutor was so and so.” Independence does not equal intellectual curiosity. That is a poor comparison. You are absolutely right about independence in the UK system because the professors don’t feel the need to work with students. My undergraduate at a top american university meant have professors that enjoyed having discussions and arguments during office hours and encouraged students to challenge the professor’s views. I was educated by “world class” experts at the LSE that if you tried to challenge them even if it’s about a topic they have no understanding of but still felt the need to write an article about “cough cough Barry Buzan” you’d get the cold glare of “who is the published scholar here?” Part of the reason why I turned down an mphil from Oxford was being turned off by the type of students that were produced at the university. The culture of the university is not academic exploration it’s academic indoctrination. That is the antithesis of the American liberal arts which is about academic exploration. And LSE undergraduate is not world leading. Their IR department is the only one in the world where you are prevented from studying abroad and I’ve helped multiple LSE undergraduates with applications to transfer to HYSC because they found the academics of the school lacking. The british university system is no longer the crowned jewel it was a century ago. Its corroded, rusted, and resting on the laurels. I found that out by interviewing candidates that all claimed to be experts in a country and language only to be shocked that people that got 1sts from such illustrious universities could barely do anything outside of what their tutors study. Even one of LSE’s top IR experts discussed with me his desire to teach at a school like Berkeley or Chicago or Yale because he finds the environment more conducive to academic exploration. So yeah stick with a top american university. I was just recently accepted into Wharton and my friend chose LBS over Kellogg and my advice to him was don’t complain to me when you get there.</p>

12

<p>British universities DO teach their students how to think, and in my opinion more so than their American counterparts where students are often examined on facts and figures alone. You say the liberal arts encourages intellectual curiously, I disagree - I’ve always felt it to encourage superficiality.</p>

<p>I’ve met my share of ignorant and obtuse Harvard graduates; I’m not going to criticise Harvard for their follies, and nor should you. It’s quite ridiculous to attempt to judge a country’s system of higher education on the fleeting experiences you have had of it.</p>

<p>Your ‘professors’ have the time to engage in lots of debates with their students because they are essentially just teaching staff who do very little research. The system is different here, but students (especially at Oxbridge) still do have debates and discussions with their lecturers. Personally I would never go to college in the US because I would hate being spoon fed everything, therefore I didn’t apply - if you felt so strongly against the British system then you shouldn’t have applied either. </p>

<p>LSE’s undergraduate programmes are world leading, nothing you have said has dissuaded me from that belief. I don’t know what LSE’s attitudes are towards studying abroad, but considering what passes for study abroad at American colleges (where students spend all their time on travel excursions or having classes with other Americans and are taught by their own professors), it is perhaps no wonder if LSE discourages it. </p>

<p>The two systems of education are very different and they each have their pros and cons. I know Americans who prefer British unis and I know Brits who prefer American colleges, ultimately it is up to the individual to decide which works best for them.</p>

13

<p>You have obviously never been to a top university in the states. My professor that had debates is the top scholar in Chinese political economics in the world. She is flying back and forth over the world for forums and presentations but she values working with her students above all else. You obviously have never heard of the Curse of the Top Tier University Professor “Publish or Perish”. Either you consistently publish border pushing material you are let go. There is a reason why American schools lead the world in research in the fields of physical and natural sciences, social sciences, and the humanities. Let’s now discuss the british “specialization” in a degree, a few modules versus 4 years taking multiple classes per term in the department is far more specialized. But liberal arts in general challenge a person to get out of their comfort zone of thinking which ends up benefitting their own focus of study. LSE is world famous because its been the finishing school for the elite of the former british colonies for the past 50 years and developed a nonsensical form of social science called the english school that has no real bearing on reality. Harvard is harvard, it has the reputation of the hardest school in the world to get into but easiest one to get straight As in. Students at schools like Princeton, Columbia, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, Swarthmore, Williams, UPenn face</p>

14

<p>I have professors/lecturers who are equally well respected and regarded around the world for their level of expertise but they still manage to fit in time for their students, as well as conduct world leading research. But according to you, this doesn’t happen in the UK. American universities do not lead the world in research, I know this because my university is the world leader in my particular area of study. You are very quick to dismiss the merits of all non-American universities but you have offered nothing in the way of evidence to support these facile assertions. You didn’t like LSE, big deal - I wouldn’t want to do a master’s there either - but LSE is not indicative of all British universities. </p>

<p>I don’t understand what you mean about specialisation in British degrees. Most of the things Americans cover in the first two years of college, British students do in school. There is no reason to continue to broaden ones horizons or be challenged to leave ones comfort zone if you have already done it before coming to college. If America’s high schools were better perhaps there would be no need for students to try out as many subjects as they do.</p>

15

<p>Bluejay…</p>

<p>Did you know that if you hit <enter> twice you can start a new paragraph? You might want to try it as your posts are nearly impossible to read in their current form. </enter></p>

<p>Honestly, to constantly bash leading Universities and continuously preach the “everything is better in the US mantra” is exactly how Americans get that reputation that precedes us. You come off as extremely closed minded. </p>

<p>Each of these universities can stand on their own merit – ours doesn’t have to better than theirs or vice versa.</p>

16

<p>BlueJay,</p>

<p>Your entire post provides ample evidence against your own thesis. I hope you don’t speak for top-U.S. schools as most of your contemporaries must cringe when they read this sort of nonsense.</p>