I like the communal dining hall aspect of college life for my kid too. And since many kids do have an issue with lunch timing with classes, they have a satellite “grab and go” program at lunch time where kids swipe and grab a to-go sandwich, drink and side (fruit) and take it wherever. D usually eats B’fast and dinner in the dining hall, and lunches on days she isn’t so rushed. And there is only one dining hall so indeed pretty much everyone does eat there.
I notice the dining hall is also a place for publicizing events. They have folding stand up cards on the tables for all manner of upcoming meetings, speeches, events, parties, whatever. Students put them there.
I’m glad D doesn’t need to deal with cooking, though her dorm does have a shared kitchen so she can cook if she is dying to. I don’t think she’s done anything beyond maybe popcorn there though.
“And that’s not taking into account fraternities/sorority organizations which take their means in their respective houses which is only open to members and their guests. Sometimes those fraternity houses may not even be located close to campus as was the case with some I know of at some Boston area colleges such as MIT. In the latter case, it’s almost like they’re living off-campus…”
I fail to see how living in apartment with 1-3 other people has any sort of socialization advantage at mealtime compared to living in a Greek house with many others.
Right now, my kids (in their first apartments) both have roommates. S’s roommate works in the same place / has much the same hours so there’s companionship when he eats dinner, even if they are both nuking their own meals. D’s roommate, otoh, pretty much is MIA as she spends all her time at her boyfriend’s apt. So D eats alone most nights. I think it’s unfortunate and she’s looking to resolve that situation.
I remember living off campus in graduate school as a pretty lonely time. After that I moved into a group house at Caltech which had four bedrooms - since most of the residents had a significant other there were usually seven or eight living in the house and we had an eating group five nights a week that added another four or five.
I went to a college with residential colleges and I feel the set-up added a lot to the experience. I nearly always ate breakfast and dinner in my own house, usually with friends, but sometimes with people I knew less well. I still remember one meal with probably the smartest most charismatic person I’ve ever met - he went on to get a McArthur genius grant. That kind of serendipity doesn’t happen if you always eat alone or with the same small group of people. Lunch I often ate with friends from whatever class met right before lunch.
The other thing I don’t like about luxurious college apartments is that it separated the wealthy from the less wealthy. If living on campus is the norm, everyone is in the same boat. Mr. Rockefeller has the same size room as Mr, Ninety-nine percent, and they can both learn from each other.
Pizzagirl–I didn’t mean this to be a debate. But for the majority of college students who could use the extra bucks, choosing the meal plan would be an extremely poor choice.
“What control does the university have on land that it does not own?”
Often quite a lot, in a college town. It’s the most important player in the economy, and local government usually listens. Even in a big-city neighborhood dominated by a university, the school may have a great deal to say about development. Hyde Park, home of the University of Chicago, is a good example.
“The other thing I don’t like about luxurious college apartments is that it separated the wealthy from the less wealthy. If living on campus is the norm, everyone is in the same boat. Mr. Rockefeller has the same size room as Mr, Ninety-nine percent, and they can both learn from each other.”
I don’t even like the existence of different meal plans. I liked how D’s school had one meal plan for everybody. I don’t like options which don’t provide 3 meals a day every day (ok maybe 2 on Sunday but you get the idea).
You know…both of my kids lived in the dorms for two years…then lived off campus for two years. The main reason both wanted to move off campus was the food. They were just tired of cafe food. And you know what? Both of their colleges had excellent and award winning dining halls.
Both also had amazing facilities at their schools…state of the art fitness centers (open to all students), for example. DDs school had. State of,the art, gorgeous aquatic center.
In both cases…the costs of living on and off campus were about equal. Both high rent districts.
TBH, if there had been a nice luxurious apartment complex, I would have chosen that over the overpriced, substandard student housing they rented.
@Pizzagirl “I’d like to see a link to ONE college that has dining facilities that “resemble resort living.” (Clue - a food court with Starbucks, Sbarro, Baskin-Robbins and Chipotle doesn’t qualify.)”
ASU Barrett Honors College – I have stayed at resorts with much worse food. One student (not a guide) even told me that it got a little annoying that when parents visit – they love to eat in the dining hall rather than going off campus. Here’s what the school has to say, “There are twice as many meal options at Barrett with a menu concentrating on health and fresh (farm-to-fresh) ingredients. The menu is more diverse with choices from organic vegetables to personally carved roast beef and grilled cage-free chicken, to freshly baked breads prepared right before your eyes. Food station menus change daily. Learn more about the dining experience by reviewing the Servery Floor plan to see the layout of the state-of-the-art stations offering the following options: Vegetarian & Vegan, Tuscan Pizza, Made-to-Order Pasta, Fresh & Green, Stacked Deli, Simmering Soup, Home Cooked, Rotisserie, grilled, Around the World, Bakery, and Gelato. At each station, we feature education information surrounding the daily dining experience, from where the day’s green beans are harvested to explaining the Monterrey Bay Seafood practices and how we abide by them.”
" I think the socialization aspect is worth every penny." That’s fine, IF you have the pennies. You think paying $11 for dinner (we don’t have to guess, the cost of eating a meal at the cafeteria is posted) is worth it for socialization and convenience then it’s worth it. For many, that meal plan money is being borrowed as the family just doesn’t have it. If the student can go to college only by eating peanut butter sandwiches in a lonely room, then that student may think THAT is worth every penny.
My daughter has a conflict with the dining room schedule every night in the spring because she has practice. She doesn’t want a box meal every single night for 14 weeks! As a freshman with only the meal plan and one cafeteria, she had to run from practice at 7:30 or so right to the dining hall to eat, not something she found social or enjoyable. At least with flex dollars, she can have meals with things bought from the (overpriced) campus store and make something in her dorm, which is suite style with a kitchenette in their unit and for which I pay more for the room. She can take a shower then do a little homework or even watch TV while she cooks and eats, not wolf down whatever is left in the cafeteria at 8 pm or eat out of a box. Her roommates are also athletes but on a different team, so on a different schedule.
As a young working adult, I always did my ‘social’ meal at lunch. I talked to co-workers, did errands, read a little sometimes. I rarely had a big meal in the evening. I actually enjoyed living alone, reading the paper and watching the news after work, not having to be social with anyone. I always worked jobs where I had to be on the phone or talking to people all day, so the quiet evenings were all mine.
From my perspective, I fail to see a meaningful difference.
Especially considering some of the fraternity houses I knew of in the Boston area were located several miles away from campus.
Not very different from living in an apartment in a remote part of the city/nearby town to the campus such as some Columbia grad students I knew whose commutes were often 1 hour or greater by public transportation from the outer boroughs or car from nearby counties or states(Some were driving in from LI, parts of Upstate NY, NJ or Connecticut). Some lived in apartment buildings in neighborhoods* dominated by grad students and/or young professionals who hold socialization events through their building or on their own.
Williamsburg, Bushwick, etc.
In addition to scheduling conflicts, not everyone is inclined or necessarily needs to eat 3 meals a day.
I knew several classmates and colleagues at work who were able to do well eating 2 meals a day…including some who were involved in athletics/exercise activities. I myself found eating lunch and dinner was enough to fuel me for the entire day though I do enjoy breakfast as an occasional weekend treat.
This was the case even with my fondness for taking long walks and playing pick up games of soccer/volleyball with classmates and relatives/friends when home on break.
In fact, I stopped eating breakfast sometime in middle school after finding breakfast actually made me feel more drowsy and less sharp in my concentration in morning classes as opposed to waiting until lunch.
Agreed.
Incidentally, similar sentiments were expressed as the reason for mandating everyone living in the same “spartan” dorm accommodations of some colleges in some old college yearbooks along with fostering communal social bonding/camaraderie from sharing the same spartan accommodations/dorm food.
And depending on the housing market of a given locale, the change could be quite dramatic.
For instance, when some older colleagues/friends attended college in Boston during the late '80s/early '90s, it was so much cheaper to rent apartments…even studios/1 bedrooms that some universities in the area felt the need to offer discounts on room and board to encourage students to stay after freshman or sophomore year.
Within 5 years after most of them graduated, Boston real estate changed so dramatically that most students found staying in the dorms even with the meal plans was a much less expensive unless they weren’t bothered with living with exceedingly long commutes, in dangerous areas, and/or in areas without much/any convenient access to public transportation*.
One must have a car with all of its associated expenses and hassles including insurance and parking.
Despite having 2 roommates whom I’d be lucky to even meet for more than once or twice every month because they were medical interns/residents with schedules out of sync with mine, never had issues with feeling lonely.
Lunchtime was the occasion of many fierce discussions/debates mostly between the mostly engineering/CS grad colleagues who were libertarian-right and those who were so radically progressively left they’d feel right at home at my LAC when I attended with occasions when both groups would join to express vociferous disagreement with the few social/religious conservatives who believed in creationism/intelligent design as being more legitimate than the scientific theory of evolution.
Lots of lively discussion and was very interesting…especially considering I was often tapped to act as a moderator because both camps felt I was congenial and my views very middle-of-the-road.
Ironically, I’ve only eaten few dinners alone as my work schedule and friends’ schedules/more centralized residential locations were such it was more convenient to have dinner at friends’ homes or for us to get together to eat out/raid the local fraternities/college parties for free food*.
Still find it interesting the fraternities/college groups we raided had such positive impressions of us they encouraged us to crash/raid their parties and we were happy to oblige. :)
It seems like flexible meal plans with dining dollars that could be used at any dining facility on campus and that is open pretty much all the time with maybe an hour closure between lunch and dinner. Students have a variety of schedules and trying to fit that into a rigid dining schedule is obsolete or as Andy Duffran said in Shawshank Redemption, “obtuse.”
If your kids weigh 105 lb with a backpack, believe me, you’re not going to get your money’s worth out of the flat rate meal plan.
Our solution for DD1 was apartment next to campus + monthly Berlin airlifts (ok, driving) with lots of groceries bought at Costco. She was able to do well with little out of pocket money for food. Now that she’s 10 hours away we visit every couple months, stock her up, etc.
My DD weighed about 108 including her backpack. Her college had a terrific meal plan…it was totally points…no “meals” at all. In addition to being able to use it on campus, there were a ton of off campus places where the points could,also be used. The dining halls were award winning…lots of farm to table, local organic veggies and meat, I think 8-10’stations. The food was really good.
But even with that…after a while, the variety just wasn’t there…and my kid also likes to cook…and wanted to cook.
"I fail to see how living in apartment with 1-3 other people has any sort of socialization advantage at mealtime compared to living in a Greek house with many others.
From my perspective, I fail to see a meaningful difference"
Here’s the difference.
you live in an apartment with 1,2, maybe 3 other roommates who may or may not be around when you are eating. Everyone sets their own schedule for meals.
you live in a house with dining facilities with, oh, say, 30, 40 or 50 other people. Dinner is served in a fairly narrow time band.
Take a wild guess at any one dinner time where you are more likely to have someone else to eat with.
Again, other people can value what they like, but there is a clear difference in the socializing chances at meals when you live with 30 other people versus a handful.
With the exception of scheduled dinners in which all fraternity members were expected to attend, many of the off-campus fraternity members operated in the same way as #1 due to having different class schedules and needing to factor in driving time to/from campus.
D went to a LAC with a smaller population, and the only dining option closed by the time she was done with tennis practice. PITA. She ended up cooking for herself for one of her years at the school, living in a house a block away. As did her sister at another LAC, in an effort to save money. Some of this was health related, as she knew she how to cook cheaper and better meals for herself. Both gave it up senior year for the sake of eating with friends, if I remember correctly.
I do think that I had the best of all options back in the ‘70s. Being vegetarian, I was both too poor, and wanted nothing to do with the dorm food of the day. Living in larger off campus houses, each roommate cooked a dinner per week for the others. Food was cheap, delicious, and we all learned to cook though that experience as well as enjoy each others’ company.
I’m not getting why frats are relevant here. They’re another form of communal living, often smaller than a dorm but more than having just a few roommates.
One of my local colleges tried but lost the battle to prevent a large semi-luxury student apt complex right off campus. The building, afaik- and as predicted- is full of wealthy international kids. The fight was about the village (ish) atmosphere of that corner of town and the footprint of a large building.
But, there are already many non-freshman kids who opt to live off campus in the same old usual collection of older homes/buildings in walking distance of lots and lots of US campuses. Off-campus housing just exists as a common option, for so many. I don’t know why it seems like a surprise. They can cook or they can keep their meal plan. They can be social or they can feel isolated, depends on the kid.
