Lying on application

<p>OP, do what feels right to you. don’t listen to these people</p>

<p>Do you know in fact that she has done this? Have you read the app that was sent? If not, she may know how you feel about her and is just yanking your chain - you have nothing to gain. As someone else has already pointed out, president of a bunch of different clubs is not going to impress admissions at Harvard - she will have to have something more substantive than that to beat the odds. Tend to your house and pick your battles - you are aware of the dismal acceptance rate at Harvard, aren’t you?</p>

<p>Harvard receives over 30,000 freshman applications. Do you really think they are calling every single applicant’s high school to check whether their extracurricular activities are accurate?</p>

<p>If someone does alert the university that an application has been falsified, then yes, RedSeven, I would imagine that it is possible that someone in the admissions office might use the telephone to check that out.</p>

<p>I’ve read throught this whole thread, and I’m a bit surprised that no one has suggested the most obvious solution.</p>

<ol>
<li>Talk with your friend. "You said you were going to lie on you applications. If you do, I’m reporting you to your counselor and/or to Harvard.</li>
</ol>

<p>There is no step two.</p>

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<p>Harvard was deeply embarrassed in 2010 when they discovered that transfer student Adam Wheeler had faked his way in, falsifying his previous academic record, test scores, transcripts, recommendations, the whole kit and caboodle. They got blasted for the laxness of their “trust-based” admissions process. But they did eventually catch the guy, and he eventually pleaded guilty on charges that he had defrauded Harvard out of tens of thousands of dollars in grants and prize money. That’s a felony.</p>

<p>Many people in the college admissions business believe that lying on college apps is on the upswing. As a result, Harvard and others are becoming more vigilant. They take this very seriously; they don’t want cheaters in their midst, because applicants who will cheat on their applications will cheat on other things, too. (Things blew up on Wheeler when he falsified recommendations and plagiarized a professor’s paper in his application for a Rhodes Scholarship; rather than face an academic integrity inquiry at Harvard, Wheeler then tried to falsify his way into Yale; but Yale thought the application looked to suspicious, so they contacted Wheeler’s HS GC who confirmed that Wheeler had not been valedictorian as he had claimed, and did not have perfect SAT scores as he had claimed. Yale then contacted Wheeler’s parents, who confronted him). </p>

<p>Harvard says it has upgraded its fraud detection efforts in the wake of the Wheeler incident, though they’re not saying exactly what measures they’ve instituted because they’re afraid that revealing their methods might just point dishonest applicants in the direction of work-arounds. An anonymous but credible-sounding tip could easily be enough to trigger an inquiry, however, which could be as simple as picking up the phone and calling the GC to get verification of the claimed awards and activities. Some colleges say they now randomly “audit” 10% of all applications, either by calling the GC for verification or by asking the applicant to provide further documentation of claimed activities, awards, leadership positions, etc. And they all say that if they spot a discrepancy or inconsistency between what the applicant is claiming and what’s in the GC’s rec or otherwise think there’s something suspicious about the app, they’ll red flag that application and either deny or, if they have time, make further inquiries.</p>

<p>Incidents similar to the Wheeler case have happened at other prestigious universities in the past. The general response seems to be that if admissions fraud is discovered, they’ll retroactively rescind the admission, revoke any academic credit earned up until that point (and vacate any degree that’s already been awarded), seek restitution of any financial aid or other grants or prizes, and possibly press criminal charges for fraud, larceny, or theft by deception (the offenses vary somewhat by state).</p>

<p>Best advice: don’t even think about it. And I, too, am appalled by the number of posters here urging the OP to just look the other way. At my D1’s LAC, it would be a serious honor code violation for any student who was aware of academic fraud to fail to report it. And that’s as it should be. A trust-based system cannot operate if non-cheaters tolerate cheating.</p>

<p>bclintok nailed it. Anyone with integrity should do the right thing, and in this case I think it is to shed light on academic chicanery. Those who rely on statistics may not be able to make up their mind. Is that bad? Not necessary, but telling people to not do something, such as not reporting academic chicanery based on statistical reasoning, to me that means not respecting the opinion of another and not allowing them to make up their mind.</p>

<p>Many people who fudge their applications actually do more harm to themselves than good.
Most come off sounding like arrogant cocky jerks. Also, they’re essays tend to end up more superficial. don’t worry too much… i doubt the person will do well even if she does get accepted to harvard.</p>

<p>So what did you decide to do? Did you contact anyone at Harvard or at the guidance counselor’s office with your concerns?</p>

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<p>I don’t recall ever saying that they’re going to call everyone’s high school counselor. Things that can be easily Googled (like national awards) will probably be checked, and if they’re tipped off they’re not going to just sit there and ignore it. I agree that it’s ridiculous to thoroughly vet everyone’s application without reason to suspect anything.</p>

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<p>Her peers don’t read her application, so I’m not quite following your logic there. Far more people are academically qualified than are accepted, so that argument won’t cut it either.</p>

<p>What college you go to is hardly important in the grand scheme of life. Whether or not you have integrity, however, affects the kind of person you are and the quality of the life you lead. If she’s in the sad state of feeling like she needs to lie about herself (and doesn’t have a problem doing so), you should feel sorry for her.</p>

<p>^
Her lying still affects other students, and that’s not okay. Regardless of the eventual impact, most high school seniors applying to college care very much about what college they end up going to.</p>

<p>Lol @ the kids saying most people lie on college apps. If you think most people lied on their application, it’s probably because you lied and are just trying to justify it.</p>

<p>@OP, you should anonymously let Harvard know that this girl may have lied. If they investigate it and it’s not true, then that’s fine. But if they find out she did, in fact, lie and then deny her, then score one for the rest of us with integrity in this world! ;)</p>

<p>I suggest the opposite from borntodance
No hard feelings… don’t hate on me XD
Last year a girl from my school sent serious accusations about another student from our school who was accepted ed to dartmouth. she tipped anonymously, but dartmouth somehow traced it back to her.
Not only did she get her u of chicago acceptance rescinded, she got rejected from every single school and was blacklisted from the ivies.
Not meant to scare the op, but that’s what happens when a tipoff backfires.
Let op’s friend be. she probably won’t get in anyways.</p>

<p>@YuhikoJay haha no hard feelings.

If done correctly, it usually wouldn’t be a problem. If the OP says she believes there may be untruthfulness in the other girl’s app, rather than leveling some pretty serious “she lied! definitely check her out” accusations against the girl, even if it does get traced back to her, it will not likely seem like she did it out of spite or on purpose to hurt the girl’s chances specifically. Also, then Harvard, if they feel it is necessary, can check her out. And if they don’t feel the need to check it out, at least the OP did the right thing by letting the school know so they can choose whether or not to investigate.</p>

<p>I understand some of the posts saying “it could affect you, so it may not be the greatest idea” (like YuhikoJay’s post). However, I honestly cannot understand why any of you think she shouldn’t tell because “it would be immature” or “it has nothing to do with you so butt out” or “oh well it happens” or “everybody does it.” What goes through your mind when you truly believe lying on a college application is okay?</p>

<p>@YuhikoJay Wait, was the tip false?</p>

<p>OP, reporting the student is the right thing to do. “Don’t tattle” seems to be the only argument against it and I’d argue that you ought to disregard that since it’s peoples’ futures on the line.</p>

<p>It was slanderous, but there was some truth backing it.
All i know is that the kid still went to dartmouh, while the girl was screwed.</p>

<p>From what I’ve read likeaskyscraper has come to CC in order to find support to go to Harvard while not listening to anyone who says otherwise.</p>

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<p>I’m sure most people stretch the truth on their applications.</p>

<p>I agree that this is a very frustrating situation for the OP. My dear friend not only wrote all the essays for her kid, but also made up a job and volunteer work for the kid. Yes, kid was admitted to top schools for the major s/he applied. I don’t know what this says, either schools are only truly concerned with grades and test scores, and dont care about ECs or they are easily fooled. I am assuming this will all work itself out in the end. Please keep us updated on what happens!</p>

<p>ugotserved and the person supporting him have no idea what they are talking about. Harvard is not composed of all liars. I was accepted early this year, and I did not lie at all on my application. In fact, most people I know did not lie on their applications. The argument that “one liar getting in would just make room for another” doesn’t make sense.</p>

<p>To the person who said that where you go to college doesn’t matter in life, maybe you should look at a list of where each president went to college. Or Supreme Court justice. Or Forbes 500 CEO (to a lesser extent).</p>

<p>To RedSeven, your repartee is hilarious and well-founded! You’re my hero!</p>