M&T Questions: The Story of a Classic ED Dilemma

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

Hi everyone,

I had a couple questions about the M&T program - if you don’t know, it is a highly selective dual degree program at Penn that combines engineering with business. The program only takes ~45 people each year. Just a bit of relevant background for my questions: I am a UPenn legacy, scholarship money is very important to my family (unable to afford the insane $50k+ of some top universities even though large annual income due to health and familial reasons), and I am a California resident (was international, but no longer).

Please keep in mind that I am aware Penn, M&T, and Stanford are highly selective programs with low chances of acceptance. It is only because these are the only “reach” schools that I am considering applying that I would like to clarify things on the off chance that I am accepted to any of the aforementioned programs/schools.

My ranking of the programs I am thinking of are: 1) M&T program 2) Stanford 3) Penn single degree

Here is my current situation.

I know ED for any program, single or dual degree is binding for Penn, and my best shot especially at a program like M&T is ED due to legacy status AND due to the fact that ED is slightly easier, so I’ve heard, at M&T. However, this ED decision may potentially damage the amount of scholarship money I receive as I am obligated to go on the off chance I am accepted (regardless of money). In that situation, it may potentially be better to apply to M&T in the RD round, where I could compare acceptances and/or scholarships received.

The second thing I want to bring up is that M&T is my dream program, the #1 program on my list for a number of reasons relating to engineering + business prowess/job opportunities. However, Penn has this application guideline that allows you to choose a single backup degree if you are not accepted into M&T so they can review again for admission. However, if that is the case, the backup program would be ranked a tiny bit lower (although still one of the top!) below Stanford, which is amazing for engineering as well as business.

I would have to specify on the M&T application whether or not I would consider this single backup degree as an alternative for a binding acceptance. Considering the Stanford placement above this single degree, this makes for an interesting dilemma. Essentially, how do I proceed with applications then?

  • Do I apply M&T ED and place my Penn single degree application into RD so if I am rejected from M&T I can apply without binding to Stanford (second choice)? (keep in mind I would lose legacy status and there is a big chance of not being accepted to Stanford).
  • Do I apply M&T and Penn single degree both ED so I keep legacy status? (but lose the opportunity of being able to apply to Stanford (second choice) for potential acceptance).
  • Do I apply Stanford EA, given that it is non-binding and would open my options, but lose the opportunity at M&T (top choice) and Penn single degree (third choice)? (but more scholarship opportunities and perhaps Benjamin Franklin Scholar which is open to RD only)

With that in mind:

  1. What do you suggest out of the three options I have stated above? Why?
  2. Is there any way to be considered for Benjamin Franklin Scholar/any other scholar programs with ED M&T? I’ve heard that they are only geared towards RD students to convince them to come to Penn.
  3. Is there a way to negotiate scholarships with ED results? For example, with RD if you get a higher scholarship from another school, sometimes they will match it. But with ED, if I am unable to afford it, what happens?

Thank you!

2

This one is clear:

apply M&T ED and place my Penn single degree application into RD so if I am rejected from M&T I can apply without binding to Stanford

All Financial aid is need based Even if you got the scholarship, it does not mean you can get the money.

You can negotiate the FA, you have less leverage with ED.

3

@f2000sa wrote “You can negotiate the FA, you have less leverage with ED.” I certainly agree that ED provides less leverage, but “negotiate” certainly overstates the case. With binding ED, the best you can do is appeal, not negotiate. Further, for a student with “large income” who needs FA due to unspecified “health and familial reasons,” binding ED is a very, very bad idea as the package offered is unpredictable and likely to be very different from what the student and his family think they need.

4

@iblifeishorrible this recent thread would be interesting to you I think. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/2041307-stanford-vs-penn-m-t.html#latest

Imo best thing to do is Penn M&T ED and Penn single degree RD. This will give you the best chance at your top choices while minimizing restrictions in case your aid is not sufficient. If you get inti Penn M&T ED and the aid is not sufficient even after you appeal, you can decline the offer and proceed with your RD apps.

Also run the Penn NPC to get an idea of how much aid you would qualify for at Penn. Don’t dorget to include not just your family income but also any major assets your family has (properties etc).