<p>I've applied to half a dozen IR graduate schools with the goal of working as a foreign policy advisor for a Senator or Congressman, although I'd be pretty happy in any government job. I know I won't make a ton of money doing that, and don't want to count on my soon-to-be fiance to help me pay off my debt, so I'm trying to weigh the prestige of the schools I've gotten into (and therefore job prospects) against how much it will cost to attend. Here are the top contenders, and how much in loans I'll have to take out to pay for them:</p>
<ul>
<li>American SIS (US Foreign Policy): no loans! :)</li>
<li>GW Elliott School (Int'l Affairs, with Int'l Security Studies concentration): about $35k in loans</li>
<li>Georgetown (SFS, Int'l Relations and Security): about $85k in loans :(</li>
</ul>
<p>The programs for all three look fascinating, and I need to visit these schools in person in the next week or two, but I'd like to get everyone's opinion here on whether or not the Georgetown or GW name (and the connections, networking, career services, etc.) are worth the expense.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, they are all well respected programs in the field. That being said, I think the SIS is a no brainer. As much as I like Georgetown, I can't see it being worth the extra 85k let alone the 35k for GW.</p>
<p>Do try to negotiate if you prefer Georgetown or GW over American. Set up an appointment at the financial aid offices. Tell them what you were offered at American and ask if they can help you. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If they say 'no' you are no worse off than you were before talking to them.</p>
<p>I firmly believe that Georgetown is far more rigorous than the other programs. (note: I'm biased)</p>
<p>But in saying that, I do agree with sphere718; the extra money is not worth it. All these programs are in DC so you will get the benefit of living here in the District. Being in DC is the priority. And you're good for that no matter which of these schools you choose. They all have great faculty and classes.</p>
<p>So, congratulations! Put the money saved forward into your relationship!</p>
<p>After three days' research, I think I've narrowed it down to GW and GT. American's employment stats aren't that great, they're not in a good location (in spite of being in DC), and I don't want to be at the absolute top of the class.</p>
<p>Great idea, M's Mom, and a few other people suggested it to me, but it sounds like they're very formulaic when deciding who gets how much aid, so no dice.</p>
<p>Does anybody out there think that the Georgetown SFS name is worth an extra $50,000 in loans? They clearly rock, and I'd love to be able to say I'm an alum... :) Turning them down will be painful, since I feel fortunate to have been accepted in the first place.</p>
<p>I think I posted on one of your other blogs "Is Georgetown's SFS worth the $85k in tuition"--I'd have to say that now that I know your financial situation with American, this makes the decision much more difficult. I can tell you that I visited the GW/SAIS/G'town campuses and G'town and SAIS were my favorites. I didn't make it to AU's campus so I don't know about that. Obviously, with G'town that is a very cool part of DC but it will also probably be much more expensive to live in that area. SAIS's campus is VERY cool b/c it is spread out basically downtown, mixed in with all the foreign embassies and very close to the white house (I think on Massachusetts Avenue)!! Also, I went to the career services office at GW and the first and only time I was in there I was offered an internship (albeit unpaid--but experience is experience). However, both GW and G'town probably both have amazing career services offices. </p>
<p>This makes the decision very difficult and I am actually in the same situation, I'm trying to determine what exactly it is about Columbia's SIPA that makes it that much better than the top DC schools (other than the fact that its Ivy League). Also, I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it financially to go to SIPA because the tuition is $82K for the two year MA-International Affairs program and factoring in cost of living and other expenses my loan debts will be well above $100K upon graduation. With an 8.5% interest rate (standard for all graduate student PLUS loans, unless you go private and thsoe are risky b/c they are variable interest rates subject to change) that debt will definitely increase to at least $150k++ with the interest. What's your take on that and do you think the price difference b/w GW and SIPA is significant? GW is about $50K for essentially the same MA degree, that's a difference of about $32K...what do you think?</p>
<p>I think that it depends a lot on what you want to do. The Georgetown name (or SIPA, for that matter) will probably open doors that other schools, like LBJ for example, might not. However, I think that the choice is more complicated than that. </p>
<p>Having a high debt load may limit your options when you graduate, because you may not be able to take a lower paying non-profit, NGO, or government job. I would suggest that you find one of the student loan debt calculators and figure out what your monthly payments will be when you graduate and see how those payments fit in with a budget based on the salary for the jobs you want to do when you graduate.</p>
<p>You also want to look at which program is the best fit for you. Which program offers coursework that is the most interesting to you? Which school has students you will enjoy spending time around? Which school has professors who are accessible outside of class? Which school has professors who are working on topics that are really of interest to you? </p>
<p>Also, if you're interested in civil or foreign service government jobs, school name will matter less than the private sector since government departments and agencies can't favor one school over another. </p>
<p>Thanks, LBJane! I had no idea that government departments don't discriminate against you based on where you got your MA. I find it hard to believe that a Georgetown degree might not still open doors or give you an edge, though, in terms of connections...</p>
<p>Much of this will really come down to visiting.</p>
<p>FutureGradStudnt, I think it comes down to what you want to do. Location is a big factor. I know that I definitely want to be in government -- and therefore inescapably DC -- so it'd be an easy choice for me. But if you want to get into international banking or finance, NY is a great city to do that in. (I live there now.) I'm not sure SIPA is worth that much money. And don't forget to take into consideration the fact that living expenses in NY are MUCH higher than in DC.</p>
<p>And I have to say, it's interesting the pattern these schools follow -- or rather don't follow -- when it comes to admissions. I saw your post on my other thread, and it looks like our admissions decisions were the exact opposite! You were accepted to SIPA, wait-listed at GW, still waiting to hear from AU, while I was accepted to AU with a full ride, accepted to GW with some aid, and wait-listed at SIPA! Makes no sense. Clearly these schools really do look for different people.</p>
<p>Yeah, I mean the government agencies are most likely not supposed to "discriminate" or recognize, "judge" schools differently, but I'll bet you that some people within government just might and probably do. Also, the faculty at G'town and at GW and American I seem to think would be comparable. And you should be able to make good connections at all three, but it might depend on what you want to do as to what type of connections you make (where the people you meet have jobs/know ppl with jobs). </p>
<p>You'll have to look deeper at the three programs and their faculty and really analyze every detail....figure out what you want to specialize in and compare the faculty and all three schools in that area(s). Also, if for example G'town has one the the world's top scholars on the environment then more students will probably choose to go there to focus on that. Figure out what most people do when they graduate with that specific concentration from that specific school, it'd be great to talk to current students but we know that doesn't always work out. (I know it's a pain in the butt) but we'll have to do some really detailed research to figure all of this out. However, I have heard people say that G'town and SIPA are better than GW and American. I'd take a detailed look at the schools' faculty, compare employment statistics (if available) and compare their career services offices. </p>
<p>Since you'll be visiting the campuses, go up to the career services offices and just talk with people and ask questions you may have. I did, I went up to GW and walked right into the career services office and asked questions, they didn't really want to help me b/c I wasn't a current student, but I told them "hey, if I'm going to invest $45-50k in something I want to know exactly what it is". Anyway, my overall impression of the people at GW (I talked to ppl in four different offices) was that they were not very helpful, not very kind and actually a little bit brash and rude. I didn't talk to anyone at G'town, so I'm not sure about them.</p>
<p>I know you have a tough decision and so do I, but one thing I'm keeping in mind is that....I went to a cheap undergrad school, and I went to four different cheap undergrad schools. None of which were my schools of choice, they were just really in states that my parents lived in or in neighboring states. I didn't think I could afford to go to a school that I really wanted to go to. I absolutely despise loan companies and the debt I've gained (only about $24k out of undergrad) and paying all that interest, but I am also thinking.....hey, I've never gotten to go to a school that I've actually wanted to go to. That is one thing that has me leaning toward SIPA and away from cheaper schools (that are still very highly regarded--although they're not in the "top" for IR) like University of Pittsburgh GSPIA (great program from the looks of it), Georgia Institute of Technology Sam Nunn School, Seton Hall Whitehead School, University of Denver, and possibly American University.
(sorry this is so long) ; )</p>
<p>gigi--Oh and I know what you mean when you say it depends NYC vs. DC on what you want to do. That is another major factor in my decision which complicates things, b/c I've been thinking government for a while now...but I'm not absolutely sure, something still says "hey, keep your options open just incase". I mean gov't jobs can be tough to get and I don't want to gamble absolutely everything on that. I do agree with you on that though, that DC would obviously be the better option for trying to network and "get a foot in the door" or get internships in government agencies. However, I also think that it would be possible and you'd still have a great chance to do the same at SIPA (I hope since I'm waitlisted at GW and haven't heard from AU) just to a lesser extent. Plus, I think it's still close enough to go down to DC for summer internships, although I wouldn't be able to work regular internships in DC. I am not sure that it's worth that much money either ughhhhh, and it does seem like they have more many more people going into International Economics/Finance, but their International Security Policy concentration looks pretty good and they also have the Middle East Institute and seemingly quite a few scholars, courses in that area. Nonetheless, I have looked at rents in NYC and the on-campus housing is offered at Studio and 1 Bedrooms (upper manhattan--mourningside--west harlem) at $1100-1800, but I will be with a roomate as well who may be helping with bills.</p>
<p>It is interesting how our admissions decisions came out!!! I do think that they were looking for certain things and I know that my GRE's were weak, but that test is so arbitrary! That's what could've done me in though at a lot of those other schools--SAIS, G'town--SAIS basically said I didn't have enough experience, which I didn't get from ANY of the other schools. I dunno, but I would like to sit in on all of these admissions committees and hear how they actually make their decisions!</p>
<p>To clarify, government departments and agencies are not supposed to discriminate on the basis of where you went to school for civil service (and foreign service) jobs. Congress is a different animal all together, and yes, where you went to school will matter more on the Hill, and it will matter more in the private sector and at international financial institutions. My point was that, whether you got your masters at GW, the UTexas, or Harvard, your chances of getting a civil service or foreign service job should be similar, other things being equal.</p>
<p>In my experience, which is admittedly limited to a few years, I haven't really seen a bias toward particular schools at the department where I work. My supervisor got her masters at UColorado, the Deputy Assistant Secretary we report to has a masters from UCLA, and other people in my office have degrees from a range of schools, including UVA, UMD-CP, Columbia, Howard, GW, and Dartmouth. Classmates of mine who now work at NASA, DOT, State, CIA, and DOD report a similar variety of undergrad and graduate institutions represented in their offices. So, take what you want from that.</p>
<p>Ultimately, school name will matter some wherever you go, but how much it matters depends on what you want to do. If you want to work in the private sector, on the Hill, or an NGO, the name will matter more than if you're interested in a civil service type job.</p>
<p>I never want to work for government ever, or for academia. I want to work for a think tank or as a lobbyist. I think AU will give me sufficient background in that.</p>
<p>Thanks, johnshade and lbjane! Do you think school name matters enough on the Hill and in government agencies to be worth $50,000? That seems to be what it comes down to for me.</p>
<p>I’m waiting on decisions, but so far I’ve been quite fortunate to receive a full waiver on tuition from American University AU / SIS. Fletcher has also accepted me, and they are offering $10K a year off their $35K tuition.</p>
<p>So I could attend AU without any tuition, or Fletcher with $50K of tuition over two years.</p>
<p>My goal is to have a rich academic experience while launching my own nonprofit on U.S. foreign policy issues. I’m most interested in the quality of experience, and balancing that
against debt issues.</p>
<p>I’m also a 30-something applicant with a decade of nonprofit / NGO experience.</p>
<p>I am about to graduate with an MA at AU, and you should seriously consider doing whatever you can to minimize your loans. Once you get to DC you’ll see that the rankings among the schools don’t mean much in the real world. My classmates and I have had amazing internships and are going on to prestigious jobs. It’s really not what school you go to, it’s what you do while you’re there. </p>
<p>But I do know a lot of people who took out a lot of loans, and now seriously regret it and wish they had gone to the school that offered them money. $85,000 in loans will probably mean fairly large student loan payments every month. Also think about what type of loan you would be taking out. Some have grace periods and some don’t. I would advise anyone in this situation to seriously think about the financial burden involved.</p>
<p>I hear you on the debt issues. As a career nonprofiteer, I think my salary track is fairly set regardless of schools or debt.</p>
<p>Would you mind putting me in touch with AU SIS peers of yours? I’d like to pick people’s brains and ask about their experiences. Through the coincidence (or not?) of life experiences, I’ve meet a lot of Fletcher folks, and far fewer from other schools. So I don’t really know any AU SIS grad-level students or alumni.</p>
<p>If you don’t mind shooting me an email at freedomforward1-at-gmail-com , I can tell you more details about my background and ask if you know peer alumni you recommend me talking to.</p>
<p>I was almost in the same predicament, I had gotten into the University of Chicago’s Committee on International Relations and even though they had offered me a 1/3 tuition waiver (about 14k), I was going to take out a significant loan out (about 30K)–I was willing to do it because it’s only a year program. I was admitted to Stanford’s MA in Latin American Studies and they’re offering me not only a full tuition waiver, but a stipend and health insurance (is this normal for MA programs?) and I’m going there instead even though I was really looking forward to enrolling at UChicago.</p>
Feel free to PM.</p>