I am currently researching the the prospect of getting a PhD in Political Science. Obviously, I would want to get into a top 10-20 PhD program. However, I have a checkered educational past.
I went to undergrad at a top research university, majored in history and minored in political science, and got a 3.4. I then went to get a dual degree JD/MBA. I hated law school and did poorly, and got a 2.7. In business school I did better and got a 3.5. It wasn’t until after graduating law school that I realized I truly didn’t want to be an attorney, and that my passions were in political science, research, ideas, and teaching.
I have almost no math experience, as I took no math in undergrad. The only math experience I have is in business school, where I took a single stats course and a corporate accounting course. I still have yet to take my GRE. I have read in these forums that you need to have taken quite a bit of quant classes in order to be competitive in top schools. Currently working as a research assistant for a scholar at a right leaning think tank (not sure if this would hurt me advertising this on my resume)
Based on the above info:
Should I pursue a terminal masters program in political science or a public policy degree in order to make up for my deficiency in math courses, lower GPA, as well as to try and get research experience with political science professors so I can get good letters of rec?
The only people I could get a letter of rec from are the dean of my business school, an econ professor from my business school, and one of my law professors who I’m very close with. Are these sufficient, or should I pursue a masters so I can build relationships with professors in poli sci to get letters of rec from them?
If getting a masters is not a good idea, is there anything else I can do to bolster my resume (besides the obvious getting high GRE scores)?
I spoke to a current PhD poli sci student at UCLA and he told me he didn’t think it was necessary to get a masters. Thoughts?
You won’t get into a top PhD program in poli sci with your record, but it isn’t clear that you would get in even after you get a masters first. With your JD and MBA, you will be coming across as a perennial student. My advice if you really want to get a PhD in poli sci is to study hard for the GRE and only consider PhD programs where you will be funded. Then look closely at the placement history in the department to see if you are willing to accept placements like that (understanding that only the employed students tend to be listed.) Another idea is to identify the particular skills you need for the research positions you seek and get those skills without enrolling in another degree program.
Thanks for the honest advice. It’s unfortunate that I would look like a perennial student, that was never my intention obviously. I’m not trying to just rack up degrees to add it to some collection, I just realized way too late that I really wanted to be a teacher and researcher. But such is life. I’ll apply to programs, and if I don’t get into a top 20 program I will pursue some other career
My advice is that if you are really serious about getting a PhD in political science, you should apply to a handful (5-7) top PhD programs that would be dream schools research-wise, and then another handful of MA programs in political science (not public policy) that you are actually competitive for. The idea is that you will probably get into an MA program, but there’s the possibility that you find some PhD program that likes your unique combination of stuff.
Thoughts:
-You should consider long and hard about why you want a PhD. You like research and ideas and teaching, but those are things you can do with a JD and an MBA. Do you want a particular kind of career that is difficult or impossible to pursue without a PhD in political science?
-First of all, as a political science minor and not major, you should consider whether you have enough coursework in political science to pursue a PhD. Even if you have the minimum requirements, will you be competing mainly with students who were political science majors? Signs point to yes. That’s one good reason to get an MA in political science specifically, not public policy.
-EtCeterisParibus makes a good point about appearing to be a perpetual student. That’s another reason why if you get an MA at all, it should be in political science, not public policy. (Remember that political science is a discipline; public policy is related but not the same or a substitute.) Another way to mitigate this is to write a really, really good personal statement that excellently describes your motivations for getting a PhD. But in order to do that, you need to have really good reasons why you want a PhD and have a clear idea of what you want to study in grad school and beyond.
-The more quant you have the better, but this isn’t like economics where you have to have taken 3 semesters of calculus and real analysis and differential equations to be competitive. It’s going to vary by program. This is another good reason to get an MA first, because you can take more political science-oriented quant classes there and understand what the requirements are.
-Yes, you need a letter of rec from at least one (and preferably two) people from the actual field you are applying in. So you need some way to build relationships with political science professors. An MA is a great way to do that. There are other ways, too - like working as a research assistant/associate. With a JD you may be able to do that already - like get a full-time research job as a research associate at a think tank or something.
-Did that current poli sci student at UCLA tell you why he didn’t think you needed an MA?
Juillet: I have considered long and hard about why I want a PhD, specifically in political science. I have spent the past 6 months not only doing a lot of personal introspection and self-reflection, but I have read numerous blogs, forum posts, podcasts, and books on why someone should get a PhD, how to determine if getting a PhD is right for you, etc. I have also spoken to current political science PhD students as well as counselors and past professors. I have been fairly thorough in my research and have looked at alternative careers that would allow me to explore ideas and do research, such as think tanks. I am fully aware of all the pitfalls and peril involved in getting your PhD (terrible job market, high attrition rate, opportunity cost, terrible pay while in grad school, stress and anxiety from dissertation, etc) However, after doing my research and speaking to numerous people about this, I feel doing the type of research that I want to do, and answering the kinds of questions I want to answer, would be best done through a PhD program.
The kinds of topics that I’m interested in are specific to political science and are more theory oriented. Think tanks and foundations care about the practical application of those theories, and consequently have a more applied focus. I’ve spoken to numerous people who work at think tanks, and they all told me that the type of research and questions I’m looking to answer are too theoretical and niche for what think tanks do, and that pursuing a PhD would be much better suited for me. The political science grad students also said that they felt I should pursue a PhD and that I would thrive in that environment. So, I really don’t want to do applied policy work. Nor do I want to just teach at a community college, where my JD and MBA might be sufficient.
With all that being said, I appreciate the helpful input. I will definitely need to do some more thinking about going the MA route first. Also, the UCLA student told me not to get an MA because he felt it was a waste of money, it would further delay getting my PhD, and that there could be other things I could do to bolster my application without having to get an MA, such as doing research work at a think tank, trying to publish articles online or in scholarly journals, and doing really well on the GRE and writing an exceptionally well written statement of purpose.
Well, yes, an MA would delay getting your PhD by 1-2 years because you’d have to finish it first. And it’s true that there are other things you can do to bolster your application without having to get an MA, but the question is how accessible those things are to you and how much they fulfill your needs versus an MA.
Research work at a think tank is a great idea. It still wouldn’t fully satisfy the course prerequisites for political science if you were missing some, but some top PhD programs might be willing to overlook that or admit you conditionally if you had some think tank research experience.
Publishing articles online would be mostly useless, but publishing articles in scholarly journals would be helpful as long as they are in political science. The issue is that publishing in scholarly journals as an independent social scientist unattached to a research group is difficult. What will you publish? You’d need an ongoing project with data, or a really solid theory or literature review paper. (Working at a think tank as a researcher could help you publish in journals).
Doing really well on the GRE won’t really help allay the concerns here, which is that your political science background is a bit shallow. It can’t hurt. Writing a really good statement of purpose would be compelling and is definitely a good companion to (but not a replacement for) attaining more research experience.
You also really need math classes, especially for some top PhD programs in poli sci.