Macalester Impresses in Many Ways, but Not All

In the general college selection forum, I described my child’s college search. This is an excerpt describing our impressions of Macalester.

Sasha far preferred Mac to Oxy but far preferred UPS to Mac. When Sasha applied to four colleges, we discussed whether it would make sense to add some “better” (i.e., more selective) colleges to the list. Given Sasha’s criteria, Mac was perhaps the most obvious choice, but Sasha concluded that, even if Mac would be “better” for many people, UPS (along with Beloit, Lawrence or Willamette) would be better for Sasha.

Like Oxy, Mac was very diverse. But unlike most of the Oxy students we saw, most Mac students seemed to be truly interested in their studies. As we walked around campus we heard a lot of conversations about the substance of what was being taught. The classes Sasha attended were terrific. Sasha thought that Mac’s students generally seemed passionate about what they were doing without being pretentious. Sasha noticed that many Mac students also had great senses of humor. In addition to being serious about their studies, many students seemed to take advantage of the many internship opportunities and public service opportunities available in the Twin Cities. Mac puts a lot of resources into internships, study-abroad programs, and public service, and has a whole building devoted to those activities. Mac also has great art and music facilities, although we didn’t see that many people using them while we were there.

Mac was the only college we visited that offered an urban experience better than UPS’s. Mac is located in an interesting neighborhood, with commercial areas and pretty residential streets in multiple directions. The campus directly abuts a nice shopping area. There’s a Middle Eastern restaurant owned by an Israeli guy who’s the son of one Jewish parent and one Palestinian parent. There’s a bookstore owned by Prairie Home Companion radio host Garrison Kiellor. (“Never heard of him,” said Sasha, who has little affinity for public radio but nevertheless acknowledged that the bookstore was nice.) There are cafes, restaurants, bike shops, jewelry stores, music stores, etc. If you can afford to shop there, it’s hard to beat the convenience of having a Patagonia store selling high quality winter clothing literally fifty feet from campus. In addition, the downtowns of both Minneapolis and St. Paul are accessible by public transportation, as are many other fun neighborhoods. The Twin Cities are undeniably cold in the winter, but the cultural life offered by the cities is spectacular. People are out on the streets—going to cafes, bars, clubs, shops, theaters, museums and so on—twelve months a year.

Though Sasha liked Minneapolis and St. Paul very much, Sasha found Mac’s campus to be a little drab compared to the other campuses we visited. (As we were leaving, Sasha commented that we might have to come back to the Twin Cities for another visit someday because the University of Minnesota might be a great place for graduate school.) Mac has one gorgeous Romanesque building at the center of campus (“Old Main”) and also has built a spectacular new arts building (the Janet Wallace Fine Arts Center). The building devoted to internships, study-abroad programs and public service also is new and pretty nice. But most of the campus is flat, lacking in trees (at least compared to the other campuses we visited), and unremarkable architecturally. The new gym is a monstrosity, though a very functional and comfortable one. The science building is a bit worn and also ugly. The Dayton Campus Center is bright and airy but definitely could use a facelift.

It didn’t help that we were seeing Mac right after UPS. The Twin Cities are still chilly in March, and there wasn’t a blade of green grass to be found.

In Sasha’s opinion, Mac also lacked school spirit, at least compared to UPS, Beloit and Lawrence. I strongly disagreed, but I agreed that Mac can’t keep its school colors straight. Relatively few people seemed to be wearing Mac clothing on campus. Some people we know who live nearby commented that they did not know what Mac’s official colors are, even though they walk though campus all the time. Are Mac’s colors orange and blue, like the team uniforms? Maroon, like the school insignias scattered around campus? Pastel yellow-orange and lavender, like some brochures we saw? I actually found the Mac students to be very spirited in their own understated way. The Mac students we met seemed very proud to be Mac students, even if they did not announce their pride on their sweatshirts. And we saw many Mac athletes wearing blue and orange “Mac” gear. But Sasha was not convinced.

Unfortunately, I think Sasha’s less-than-enthusiastic reaction to Mac may have had less to do with Mac and more to do with the other high school students, and the parents of other students, who were visiting Mac the day we were there. Sasha was almost physically repelled by a few of the families touring the campus with us. Mac clearly attracts many very highly credentialed students, including quite a few who also apply to extremely selective colleges like Carleton, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Brown, Chicago, Columbia and Yale. Without going into detail, I’ll just say that a few of the visiting high school students, and their parents, had a tendency to use subtle and not-so-subtle methods to communicate the kids’ impressive credentials to others in the group, and Sasha wanted nothing to do with them. If I had been choosing a college, my first choice might well have been Mac, even if Mac attracts a few more hyper-competitive kids than UPS or Beloit, and even if Mac’s campus isn’t as pretty as UPS’s or Beloit’s.

Frankly, most of the students we encountered who actually were enrolled at Mac—in contrast to a handful of the ones who were visiting with us—struck me as friendly, bright and a lot like students at colleges that Sasha preferred. But Sasha was the person whose opinion mattered and Sasha did not want to go to Mac

Thanks for taking the time to share all of this info - a great read! Too bad about the other prospective students in your group; such experiences (either positive or negative) sometimes seem to take on an outsized weight. I guess our kids are grasping for some criteria to help them make decisions.

@yotommy I think that’s accurate. Only recently I heard a very similar story comparing Macalester and another school. In that case, it was the prospectives at the OTHER school who came off in a bad light, and Macalester won hands-down. I think sometimes these impressions can be a proxy for some other gut feeling about what’s right or wrong about a place for a given kid. (Certainly my own kid seems unduly influenced by specific encounters with specific people – a rep can really make or break a school.)

I agree that other students in the tour group can definitely influence your impression of the school. My best friend and I both visited a school similar to Mac. We joke that we are twins because we are so similar, and usually we like the same things. I visited said school and loved it. My friend visited a couple weeks later and hated it, mainly because of a few annoying students in her tour group. Also the weather was not great, and other factors were at play too. But it just goes to show, the few people that you meet on a short visit can make a lasting impression.

On another note, I visited Mac during one of the fall open house days (can’t remember the exact name of the program) and there were tons of other students from all over the country. My mom and I both thought that everyone was friendly, and if I had not gotten accepted ED to another school I would have applied RD.

I just wanted to add a different perspective on Mac since our experience with prospies was totally different from the OP’s. We’ve been twice and visited most of the same campuses the OP did. In the fall, I’d say Mac had the most attractive campus of those we visited. Yes the upper midwest is flat. :)) For an urban campus I thought it has a lot green space. It’s about 1.5 miles from the biking/running trails along the Mississippi River. I didn’t notice the school colors/tshirt thing at the time but I do agree with his assessment now that I think of it. That isn’t something that bothers my D. She is an athlete and visited with athletes on all her visits, so they tend to wear more school logos than the general student body IMO.

Regardless, our read on Mac students is they are intelligent, focused and confident without being in-your-face. We really enjoyed them. We also enjoyed the Beloit students (2 visits also). As a group they seemed a lot more upbeat and energetic vs. Mac who seemed more laid back. Neither was insipid or annoying. Mac appealed to my daughter’s brainy-but-humble side but Beloit appealed to her optimistic side (negative people sap her energy).

As far as Mac prospies, my daughter and another girl were hosted overnight in the same suite and I ate breakfast with them in the morning. The other girl was visiting without a parent and from the list of schools she told me she had visited, I guessed she was a National Merit semi-finalist. When I asked her, she looked incredibly uncomfortable and glanced around to see if the Mac students had heard me. I told her how I guessed and shared what I knew from an NMF from our town who attended one of those schools on scholarship. My D is also a NMSF and they clearly hadn’t discussed that or the rest of their academic credentials with each other. She was just like my D and the Mac kids: super laid back and not looking to show off. The kids we know who have enrolled at Mac have been the same. Smart, but not show offs. We were there on an athlete visit day and the other parents I visited with were some of the kindest, friendliest of those we’d met. Clearly proud of their kids but confident in their abilities so no need to brag (and the ones I’d most like to get a coffee with LOL - the Carleton moms were insane!).

“I strongly disagreed, but I agreed that Mac can’t keep its school colors straight. Relatively few people seemed to be wearing Mac clothing on campus.”

Seems like some serious nit picking here. In terms of “Sasha found Mac’s campus to be a little drab compared to the other campuses we visited.”, was the sun stronger one day vs the other? That makes more of a difference than some people realize. The fact that it is the sun and not the buildings is not always obvious.

It seems like you are trying to find differences on dimensions where, if they exist, don’t matter-below JND. It is going to come down to gut feelings and where a student feels most comfortable or most excited to be there. Between these schools, an analytic approach probably won’t get you far.

prairiejane, " The kids we know who have enrolled at Mac have been the same. Smart, but not show offs. " Accomplished kids rarely “show off”. Rather, it’s usually the kids who are less competent but who have worked hard to look “smart” (kids others call “try hards” cause they work to convince others of their intellectual prowess, sit in the 1st row, raise their hands for every question) who are the show offs and I would guess they are at neither school. Yes, talking about who has a NMF should make your student uncomfortable. Why in the world would you be guessing about the credentials of another applicant? Why scrutinize if she isn’t sharing?

Here is a factor you mention that I think does make a difference but on which I can’t imagine the two campuses differ:Intellectual vs anti-intellectual climate.

I’ve spent a lot of time on loads of college campuses. On one, I’ve never heard a conversation between two or more student that focused on substantive issues-ideas, political, research, scholarly discussions. Never! Over years. Not walking across campus, in the student center, in dining halls, even in admissions waiting areas, in the lobby of the library, in the bathroom. Never. This contrasts with other campuses where I’ve observed heated discussions about a wide range of topics. Sometimes people on this site claim that there is no reason to pay more to go to a different school. Others contend that as long as the attending students are strong, there is really no differences that matter. My experience (along with published material) suggests otherwise. Why would schools even have holistic admissions if they were not trying to create a certain climate?

The school I describe as anti-intellectual is filled with “good students” with “good scores” and “good grades” (in fact some would describe their objective credentials as excellent) and it “very competitive” in terms of % accepted. But their discussions (and world) are filled with concerns about grades, complaints about assignments and grades, discussions about points taken off or added, discussions about schedules of the buses going home…you get the point. In contrast, I’ve observed that at some other schools there is a buzz now about elections, racial issues, economic concerns (beyond their own), and there is discussion about academic pursuits beyond what grade it will earn them. And, a student at the one school who tried to discuss content from a class or issue would be quickly stifled by someone else moving the conversation into the arena of discussion about a complaint regarding a grade.

The school I am talking about is not a LAC. Just as the student discussion is about pragmatics in this school to get them ahead so is their discussion about college focused narrowly on that variable too. So you won’t find them at Macalester or Occidental. Both will provide an intellectual climate. Good luck on the choice!

I am not totally sure of the purpose of this post… seems like a lengthy stream-of-consciousness list of pretty minor and shallow (and mostly subjective) thoughts of a 17 year old visitor. Not to be rude, but I am glad every visitor to every college doesn’t post this equivalent. Ironically, I lived near Mac for many years and have been on the campus lots of times – and couldn’t tell you what their colors are. But also couldn’t tell you the school colors of the college D2 attends now.

@lostaccount I think you misunderstand. The Mac students and prospies we met were not anything like the prospies the OP’s daughter ran into on her visit. They were very intellectual (using your term) and engaging. My example was merely to point out how different our experience was. There was no scrutiny on my part. We were sharing other schools we’d all visited and liked and she indicated she was looking at an honor’s college at a large state university. Given Mac’s profile, I intuited she was in the running for National Merit. I asked to be sure I was correct because I know a woman from our local high school who was a NM Finalist and attended the program she mentioned. I was happy to share with her what I knew about it. It was a lovely visit with a gracious student and I’d love for my child to be a peer and teammate with that young woman if they were to end up at the same school.

(I would note the conversation about NM & the honors college took place near other students but was a one on one conversation with no other student, including my kid, actually near enough to overhear!)

Several Macalester fans have written to me to say that Sasha’s tour group was not typical and that Sasha gave up on Mac too quickly. They said that the people they met on their Mac tours were very nice, that the student body is very nice, and that Mac’s culture isn’t competitive. That was my impression, too. I think Sasha overreacted to a few comments made by people on the tour.

Ironically, Sasha recently got back in touch with an old friend who went to a summer program with Sasha a few years ago but lives too far away to see with any frequency. The friend and Sasha have plenty in common. Apart from academic performance, they have similar personalities and interests. The friend will go to Mac after getting in early decision.

Mac might well have been my own first choice if I were the applicant, but of course I wasn’t.

I do think Mac should get rid of the Maroon logos (they look stuffy), try to spruce up the student center a bit, and plant some more trees.

I visited Macalester a couple of months ago. I am not sure when these supposedly obnoxious parents would have had the opportunity to tout their kid’s credentials because at least on the day we toured, the kids went with one tour guide and the parents with another. There was unfortunately one odd prospective student on my son’s tour that asked way too many questions and talked a lot about herself off-topic. The poor guide had to deal with that. (Strangely, she worked at the school, so it’s not clear why she had so many questions in the first place.)

It’s a great school. I grew up in the neighborhood and have a bunch of friends who went there.

@WildRumpuser - Don’t worry about Sasha missing an opportunity at Mac. UPS is a great school for athletes! My own DD didn’t like the emphasis UPS puts on recruiting athletic prospies and is waiting to hear from Mac, though.

What is UPS???

I assume it is University of Puget Sound?

Yes, that’s what the OP’s kid ended up choosing. (University of Puget Sound.) This post was pulled from a much longer discussion of how her kid came to that decision.