Made some questionable decisions regarding academics and wondering if my ECs will help close the gap

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hello all.

I am a 17-year-old Chinese male attending a rigorous, math-and-science-focused high school ranked #2 in my state and above #120 in the nation. My classmates and friends are highly-competitive college-focused students and all have stellar academics.

My viewpoint and understanding of top colleges is that they want well-rounded students with passions and interests in things other than academics. Because they get so many applications from stellar students, they’ve adopted a holistic approach to reviewing applications and look at more than just grades and scores. I decided to focus more on doing what interests me and what I want to do at a given time.

As I did not want to pressure myself into taking the most APs or the hardest classes, I decided to take classes that, while rigorous, were more geared towards my own interests in learning rather than in looking good for colleges (as many of my classmates did). As such, I have not taken AP Physics C, Chemistry, or Biology and instead opted to take unique courses my school offers such as Thermodynamics, Quantum Mechanics, and various computer science classes including Analysis of Algorithms (a Java-programming language class).

I have a good GPA but my scores are all over the place.
Here goes.

GPA: 3.9 (unweighted), 4.67 (weighted)
SAT: 1520, June 2018 (taken once)
ACT: 35, June 2018 (taken once)

APs: English Language and Composition (5), Psychology (4), Statistics (4), Computer Science A (4)

SAT II:
Math Level 2 - 690, June 2018 (taken once, taking it again in 2 days)
Here’s the banger

I am taking the Physics SAT in 2 days for the first time, along with my retake of the Math Level 2. I have only taken a semester of General Physics in my 9th grade and have not taken AP Physics C. Due to a summer research internship this summer (and procrastination), I only started studying for the Physics SAT last week. I’ve self-studied and completed the Physics SAT Princeton Review Book, but I am not confident about this test at all. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume I get a horrid score (550~600).

Continuing with ECs

Leadership:

  • CEO and Founder of an independent game development studio that produces video games. While not an official studio, we are projected to launch our first mobile game around September.
  • Co-Founder of a local computer repair company that focuses on affordable computer repairs, custom computer build walkthroughs. This company is also related to a club that I co-founded at my school, Computer Enthusiast Club.
  • Leadership Figure, Documentation Lead, and Primary Robot Operator in my school's FIRST Tech Challenge Team (FTC). I worked with a small team of 15 students to design, build, and document a robot. With my documentation, our team won a 3rd place journalism award at the regional level. As the primary operator of the robot at competitions, our team was a Finalist in the Regional Competition, a Finalist in the State Competition, and we went on to compete in the FTC World Championship.
  • Co-Founder of the Computer Enthusiast Club, where we teach fellow students how to build computers, we refurbish used computers that people donate to us, and we donate said computers to the homeless at various homeless shelters in our area.
  • President and Founder of the Game Design Club at my school.

Honors and Distinctions:

  • FIRST Tech stuff as mentioned above.
  • FIRST Robotics Challenge Team where I was a sub-team leader and our team was a Regionals Finalist, competed at State Championship, and competed at the FRC World Championship.
  • Science Olympiad Regionals Qualifier and our team was 4th place in the State Championship
  • National Honor Society Scholar (coming up on my 2nd year)

Other Extracurriculars:

  • Summer Research Internship at NIST working 9-5 on weekdays for 8 weeks. I was the sole man on the project with some interjections by my mentor and I presented at the end-of-internship poster session. I found this internship by cold-calling and emailing various researchers.
  • Volunteer for Girls in Engineering at my local library, teaching girls in elementary and middle school about the fundamentals of engineering with fun DIY projects (~20 hours)
  • Volunteer for Girls Coding Class at my local library, teaching girls in elementary and middle school about coding basics and the wonders of computers (~20 hours)
  • 5 years of Karate (currently a first-degree black belt)
  • 5 years of Ice Skating (just as a hobby)
  • Member of the Water Club at my school

I’m not sure about majors but leaning towards majoring in Engineering or Computer Science and minoring in business.

If I were to apply to MIT, Yale, UPenn, and UC Berkeley (these are just my top schools), would my ECs cover up for my subject test scores and put me on an equal or higher playing field than other students who have stellar grades and scores but less ECs?

I welcome any suggestions for ECs, schools, or anything else that might be helpful!

Thanks for reading.

2

You might want to edit out some of the personally identifying company names there.

3

Thank you, I did that

4

You may want to add schools that don’t consider SAT subject tests at all since that’s the weak link. The rest of your stats are very, very solid. In general the top schools want to see the whole package so I don’t think your ECs can make up for a weakness elsewhere. You may want to dig through the common data sets for the schools on your lists to see which don’t weight the subject tests as highly. That might help you better decide to ED somewhere.

5

Yes, I’ve got around 5 other schools that do not require SAT subject tests and all these are schools that I am glad to go to if I get in. I’m just wondering about the top schools; if I even have the chance at all.

6

1.) college admins will know the classes offered at your school and may question why you didn’t take AP classes since they were offered.
2.) What’s your class rank? If it’s a really competitive school and they don’t rank that’s fine.

Your EC’s are good but not great (didn’t publish for research, only a regional level award), your academics are good but weak for the SAT subject tests (most the schools you list require two). Even the most perfect students academic wise are often rejected, it seems to me you may make the crapshoot, but you don’t have much a chance any higher than the average acceptance rate.

7

From your description of your school, place of intern, and what’s your ECs, I am pretty sure the general area you live. There are tons of talent applicants from that area applying to top schools, and the school list you have MIT, Yale, UPenn, and UC Berkeley are also the students in your school will target. Your weakness will be your school rank (if there is one), Asian male, and interested/ECs in computer/engineering. I know few of the boys – Asian boys in GT programs in your area with high academic – couple years ago in your general area and applied to target schools like yours and got their dream crashed.

But all hope is not lost for you. You may want to add a few top schools to your list to increase your chance in getting into one of them. My suggestion would be Michigan, Vanderbilt, and Carnegie Mellon. Also how you write your college essay will help you distinguish you from your peers who all have the hard skills in CS like yours by putting soft tough in your humanity size. If I were you, I would probably write something like why did I participate the Volunteer for Girls in Engineering/Coding Class, what I did there, what I actually learned from participating that and wanted to do something more like that in the future, whether in college or after college.

8

I think your chances are better than the overall average acceptance rate which will have a good number of 0 chance candidates in the denominator. That having been said, course rigor relative to what your school offers is a critical factor for these and any top schools, much more important than EC’s. Have you considered taking the SAT2 English since you made a 5 on the AP Language exam? There is no reason you have to submit 2 STEM SAT2’s except for MIT.

9

No.

Actually, here’s the banger:

So I assume that you will not be the only applicant from your HS to MIT, UPenn, etc. While they all practice holistic admissions, the first thing they will look at is academics and test scores. If other applicants from your HS have higher stats, it’s likely that they will be viewed more favorably. That said, you could still be admitted. But you, like many applicants, should ensure that your list includes matches and safeties. Good luck.

10

ECs will never overshadow academics. Unless of course you won the Nobel Prize like Malala Yousefzai, or your last name is Obama. For everyone else the primary driving factor will be academics.

11

Agree with the assertion that academics are the primary consideration. Academics are key and there’s virtually no EC that will compensate if your academics are sub-par.

But… at the same time the holistic admissions process is not simply to take the top test scorers or top GPAs until the class is full. If you are taking the most rigorous courses, for most holistics you don’t get extra brownie points if your GPA is 3.9 vs 3.8. Similarly, an SAT of 1560 doesn’t get you in before someone with “only” a 1550. To some extent, there are groups or tiers of academics that are considered part of a pool of highly qualified.

An example was my son in the last admissions cycle. He was one of 7 applicants from his school to a top 10 college. While his test scores were top 10% from his school, he was definitely the lowest GPA of all 7, probably even by several 10ths of a percent. But… he had taken the most rigorous courses possible and then took even more higher level courses. And his ECs were very good. Of the 7 applicants from his school, he was one of two admitted even with his lower GPA. It wasn’t that the ECs made up for the GPA, it was that the GPA was acceptable even though it wasn’t the top GPA from his school.

12

As you can tell from my last post, I’m simply a parent who researches not an AO, but my recommendation would be to carefully consider if and how you mention the game development studio. You already have plenty of other activities where you demonstrate leadership and creativity and listing a development studio that is “not an official studio” and that hasn’t released any games could be perceived as padding. I’m not saying it is padding, but you want to avoid creating that impression because once you’ve created that question it could color a reader’s perception of your entire app. Quality over quantity.

Also, I should have clarified in my last post that my observations were about grades and scores in general, not necessarily your exact scores. For colleges that require or strongly recommend (which means require for most students) subject tests, you are absolutely going to need to raise your subject test scores to have a decent chance of admissions. Especially for colleges like MIT. Your ECs will not compensate for sub-700 subject test scores and we’re hearing rumors that even bare 700s aren’t even enough at the top selectives any more. So study hard and get those subject test scores up. Good luck.

13

@NotUpToPar OK, I see only two small weaknesses within your control here - 1) your GC might not check the “most rigorous” box on your form and 2) subject tests could be better.

Beyond your control: Chinese male from CA, focusing on CS/STEM. There will be many students vying for top schools that fit this profile as @skieurope has already mentioned.

If it were me, I would not take the Physics SAT subject test. It’s been over two years since you learned this material in the classroom and chances are a freshman-level course is inadequate preparation anyhow. You haven’t adequately practiced/self-taught the material. A score of 550-600 will not help you at all. However, as you got a 5 on the AP Lang and Comp, why not try the SAT II in Lit instead? Or some other subject where your chances of doing well are better, even if it’s not a STEM subject? You can change your mind about the subject tests on the day of the test, assuming that the subject is offered on that day and is in the booklet.

TBH, with single digit admit rates at these top schools, nobody’s chances are very great. Spend some time thinking about your matches and safeties - make sure you consider UC campuses other than UCLA and Berkeley (especially for CS/Engineering where the bar is set even higher). Maybe take a look at Purdue, Pitt, Case Western, Rice, assuming affordability. Check out some public options in the Western states like ASU or UNM as admissions and financial safeties.

14

Thank you all for the advice.

Just to clarify, I do have several match and safety schools that I am applying to and I am not banking all my hopes on getting into a top school. I was simply curious about how admissions take into account different factors. That said, I, of course, hope that I could get into a top school but I will not be devastated if I do not. My dreams do not require me to attend a top university. All in all, I am focusing on my ECs and essays as it is much too late to be worrying about my academics at this point.

@milee30
Unfortunately, I do realize that my ECs currently look like padding but I really am doing these things because I enjoy them. Hopefully, that will come across as such in my application and essays.

@pieguy54321
My school does not rank and part of the reason why I didn’t take as many AP classes is because of what a teacher who I look up to said to my class.

Thanks again. @pieguy54321 @amNotarobot @BKSquared @skieurope @sgopal2 @milee30

15

@mamaedefamilia

Some of the schools that I am applying to require a science subject test. Physics is my best one because I have at least taken a course and self-studied a bit (I know, it’s not much but still). I said this right when you posted your comment so you probably missed it but I do have several matches and safeties. I do thank you for your advice.

16

Considering your grades and scores, as well as how rigorous your school is, I don’t think you needed to take the APs you listed to be competitive and indeed your ECs will help you stand out.
However, add a few colleges that will like your 35/1520 scores - Case Western definitely. Vanderbilt is another good addition. UMN-TC, or UWISCONSIN, if you can afford them (you’ll likely get some merit but it may not make your costs affordable).

17

Was that class freshmwn year actually physics, or the more common “physical science?” If physical science, then no, you haven’t taken a physics class, and probably don’t have the background to do well. Submitting a 600 to a top school will only highlight the lack of core science classes, when others will be submitting 750+

One highly selective school that might value your approach is Olin. Have you considered them?

18

Be careful with math 2 and physics sat subject tests. While I guess it would be unfair to say they are “easy,” the do have some of the highest rates of 800s (outside some languages). Offhand iirc more than 20% get an 800 on m2 and ~13% on physics and the curves fall off quickly. See here: https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/sat/pdf/sat-subject-tests-percentile-ranks.pdf

19

From my perspective, the problem is not Asian American and stem.

It’s that water club is the only non-stem/tech activity shown here. (Karate and skating are hobbies.) The ECs are lopsided, the Ivies and MIT are not looking for unilateral.

So I wonder how much OP really researched these targets. And without that understanding, how do you present what they like and want?

The 1590 and 35 are fine, it’s the 4 scores and 690 that will be risky. Plenty of competing applicants will have a more conventional schedule, some balance in ECs, and top stats all around.

You do not need to publish. Period.

20

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/2095312-generic-chance-answer-for-super-selective-colleges.html