Magnet High Schools

Parents Forum
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<p>I don’t know how many got into selective schools of the type you describe, QwertyKey.</p>

<p>But kids who were destined to earn SAT scores as low as 1900 wouldn’t have gotten into the magnet program in the first place. In the magnet program I’m familiar with, approximately 1/3 of the students end up as National Merit Semifinalists and almost all of the others are National Merit commended.</p>

<p>I agree with you, though, that a higher proportion of magnet kids than regular program kids go to our flagship state university or schools more selective than that university. That would be expected. They tend to be more qualified. It’s at the very, very top – with the ultra-selective schools – where being from a magnet school could be a disadvantage.</p>

<p>My daughter and I went to an information session at Columbia University when she was deciding which colleges to apply to. Someone asked the admissions representative whether there was a limit on the number of students who could be accepted from any one high school. The representative said “No, but of course we aren’t going to take 100 people from Stuyvesant.” Stuyvesant, of course, is New York City’s most selective science/math magnet school. There are far more than 100 Stuyvesant graduates per year who are realistic candidates for admission to Columbia. I think it is reasonable to conclude from what the admissions representative said that Stuyvesant students are at a disadvantage, in comparison with other students with the same qualifications, when they apply to Columbia. I don’t know any other way to interpret what he said. </p>

<p>Of course, a lot of those Stuyvesant graduates who don’t get into Columbia will end up at schools only a little less selective (Cornell, Northwestern, etc.). But if they had gone to high schools other than Stuyvesant, they might have gotten into Columbia.</p>

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<p>Marian, I completely disagree. Those kids have an absolute advantage and would be foolish to turn down the education that they got from Stuyvesant in favor of going to a standard public high school.</p>

<p>At a neighboring boarding school (not mine), sixteen students were accepted to Harvard out of approximately 100 applicants from the senior class. These 100 students are incredibly qualified candidates from across the country. 16% were accepted, which is more than DOUBLE than Harvard’s standard admissions rate of ~7%.</p>

<p>Had those 100 students gone to run-of-the-mill public high schools (or whatever other school we’re using as a basis for comparison) and been “stars” I seriously doubt that they would have fared any better. I seriously doubt that 17 or 18 or 50 of those students would have then been admitted to Harvard’s freshman class simply because it is so difficult to compare students and the rigor of high schools. The quality of their boarding school is well known in the Ivy League, and it is reflected in the dramatically higher acceptance rate. Those other 84 students certainly don’t have a “disadvantage” because they were the unlucky few who didn’t make the cut. </p>

<p>If I had the option of being with a group of students that had a 16% rate to Harvard at one of the best schools in the country, or cast my lot with a no-name school where I could be a star (~7% admit rate), I’d pick the 16% pool.</p>

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<p>I think a lot of the posts in this thread kind of miss the boat, as they only focus on how going to a magnet school will help or hinder college admissions. I’m a grad student at UChicago now, and when I was in high school, doing various math contests and camps, interacting with people from TJ, AAST, Illinois Math & Science Academy, Stuyvesant, Montgomery Blair Magnet, etc. and my experience at Caltech afterward made me wish that I had the chance (i.e. that I lived in the right place) to go to one of these schools. These schools and their students were on almost another level academically from my reasonably well-regarded public HS. People I knew from these places got research/lab jobs as high school students; something almost unthinkable at my HS as I was simply not ready for such work when I was a HS student, and I’m sure the curriculum at the magnet schools prepared them for that. Yes I know the places are competitive and tough, but the world is competitive and tough and dominating bad competition (i.e. winning valedictorian and every award, being hailed universally as the best in your class, etc.) at a mediocre HS is not adequate preparation. What’s more, these places are public schools and so if you live in the right place, you’re getting Phillips Exeter-class education for free.</p>

<p>I think if a student can handle being at a magnet school they should. They may take their lumps or need an adjustment period but in the end they will be so much better prepared for college. I’m fairly sure I could have handled it, and I’m totally sure it would have helped me.</p>

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<p>I think the student should attend the high school that is the best fit for their personality, learning style, academic goals and needs. </p>

<p>My kids both attended different magnet programs, but neither was a competitive academic magnet program. My son’s magnet was an open-admission, academically-focused program that followed the “essential schools” philosophy – see [The</a> CES Common Principles | Coalition of Essential Schools](<a href=“http://www.essentialschools.org/items/4]The”>http://www.essentialschools.org/items/4) </p>

<p>My daughter attended an arts magnet, requiring an audition (and a previously developed talent), for entry.</p>

<p>Both schools were excellent environments for them. They made good friends in high school, formed strong relationships with teachers, and have very fond memories of their high school years – and both high schools provided a supportive and nurturing foundation for the academic and emotional growth that needs to take place between the age of 14 or 18.</p>

<p>I would not have wanted to see either of my kids in a highly competitive academic environment – I think that would have been stressful and spirit-crushing. </p>

<p>Both my kids were able to get into excellent colleges, and both got into their top choices. I do think that the “magnet” thing helped, but mostly in the sense that it added something interesting to their applications. That is – the fact that they did NOT attend a standard, high-level academic high school meant than neither had transcripts that followed the typical loaded-with-AP track that is so commonly described here on CC. </p>

<p>I think one downside to a competitive academic magnet may be that so many of their students do apply to elite colleges that the school itself loses significance. When an admissions reader has already weeded through 60 applications from Bronx Science, for example… they aren’t going to be impressed that applicant #61 comes from Bronx Science. </p>

<p>But the point is: a parent’s job is to focus on their child’s current needs, and to be able to guide and encourage without pushing or prodding a child beyond his limits. The kids who will do best in the most competitive settings are the ones who are forging ahead, dragging their parents kicking and screaming behind them. (Well, not quite – but I think most parents of competitive, highly ambitious kids will know what I mean. )</p>

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<p>I’m not anti-magnet.</p>

<p>One of my kids went to a magnet. She is glad she did.</p>

<p>The other kid did not go to a magnet. He is glad he didn’t.</p>

<p>As calmom says, different schools are appropriate for different kids.</p>

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<p>Our high school always has two or three kids who get into Harvard. I’m pretty sure none of them have to work as hard as the kids at TJ or Stuyvesant. But I may be underestimating. My older son didn’t work hard at all in high school - but I know many of his classmates worked much harder to get the same grades he did. </p>

<p>I can say, he’s working much harder in college, but also enjoying it much more as the courses he’s working hard in are much more in line with his interests. If a top notch magnet had been available to us, I certainly would have been thinking about it. There are very good privates in our region, but ultimately it seemed to me that our school gave our son enough of what he needed with lots of time to spend on his own for exploring what he really was interested in. </p>

<p>There’s no one right answer here - especially since there’s no real way to predict whether your child will excel at the magnet or be only average.</p>

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<p>But the flip side of the coin is that some of the 74 applicants who were turned down by Harvard may have gotten in, had they applied from a different high school. Some of those kids didn’t get in because they seemed unremarkable next to their classmates, but may have been academic superstars if they had attended a reasonably good high school in their home community.</p>

<p>I’m not sure that a 16% admit rate to Harvard is all that remarkable if you only look at qualified applicants – after all, Harvard probably gets a significant number of applications from students who are patently unqualified and never had a chance at getting in. So if you were to only look at at admission statistics when weighed against applicants who met certain criteria in terms of high school GPA, SAT scores, and high school curriculum – you might find that among well qualified applicants, the admission rate is well above 16%.</p>

<p>Just for fun, I entered my daughter’s stats on a utility on a competing web site that purports to show “chances” in terms of a percentage. For Harvard, it came back 35% chance of admission. Now I know that is silly – my d. never applied to Harvard and I don’t
think she would have gotten in – but obviously the reason her stats resulted in a project of 35% (rather than 7%) is that she had a very strong class rank & GPA. </p>

<p>But the point is – if we assume that every graduate from elite private boarding school has a strong GPA and excellent SAT scores – then a 16% admission rate is not particularly impressive. Perhaps statistics would show that on average, applicants with those credentials are admitted to Harvard 20% of the time, but Harvard doesn’t want too many students from the same school and values geographic diversity, so it uses a more exacting standard when evaluating those students. </p>

<p>We don’t know. That’s why I feel it is much more important to look at a student’s current academic needs than to project out chances of college admission 4 years down the line.</p>

<p>I’d just add that for a given student, the value of the elite high school education may outweigh the value of the college they eventually get into. That is, it may be that a student who attends the elite boarding school and goes on to study at Vassar and Tufts because they can’t make the cut for an Ivy, is better off than the student who has top grades at a less demanding high school, gets admitted to Harvard, but doesn’t really have the foundation educationally to take advantage of the full range of Harvard’s offerings.</p>

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<p>Marian, I understand what you meant now. It’ll sure feel great if you have confidence in college. I’d like to prepare myself that way, which is not going to be easy for me. I always wish there was a magnet school in our area but there is none. private schools are not really expensive but they’re all catholic and not really academically challenging. I learned I have to do work myself to raise my own value.</p>

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compucomp that’s exactly how I feel. But you are good. I guess you are motivated and made up what you had missed for not being able to attend one of those. I admire you.</p>

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<p>Another variable would be the college counseling that is available at the magnet versus the local high school. My two oldest children are both highly capable. When they were sophomores I encouraged both of them to apply for our state’s residential school for juniors and seniors. My son chose to stay at his current school and combine college prep classes with computer tech courses (A+ certification, networking+, server etc.). He’s done fine and is happy but his guidance counselor has not encouraged him to look beyond state schools and has had very little communication with me. My daughter applied and was accepted but took a year off to be an exchange student so she will start at the state residential school for science, math and humanities in August. One of the things I’m anticipating is much better college guidance from a counselor that is dedicated to college admissions and does not have to deal with student discipline problems, drop outs etc. My kids, obviously, have very different temperaments but if that were not the case, I think that the magnet school would be the better place if only because the college counseling would be better.</p>

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<p>Another issue is what kinds of colleges your potentially magnet-bound child is interested in attending. The discussion so far has been mostly about private schools. If your kid (or you) are very interested in your own state’s flagship, you’ll want to make sure that your kid’s GPA remains high. Private schools will read applications holistically and will be able to notice when a student has a lower GPA but is attending a demanding high school. Public schools will by and large just look at the GPA and test score numbers.</p>

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<p>I would like to bring up again, that going in as a Jr. can be difficult both academically and socially, and MAY not get you the desired advantage in college admissions you are seeking. Make sure the higher level classes, or classes in your students area of interest will be available if they enter as a Jr. The name on the diploma alone is not going to be enough. It will be the classes, grades, and activities they earned there. They may be at a distinct disadvantage going in as a Jr. Certainly moving into leadership positions where students have been involved and waited two years in an organization to earn these spots will be much harder to earn.
What type of ‘magnet’ school are you talking about. There are many different types. TJ is one where all students are involved in the program. In our county many schools have magnet programs (IT, IB, Cambridge, Fine Arts, Marine Biology, etc.) where students apply to schools outside of their ‘home schools’. Not all students at the school are involved in these programs. Frankly, if you put an IB program in a school that generally does not have top scores, your average goes up and so does your funding. It’s that simple. Our IT school is in a part of our county close enough for students to consider TJ. Most decide to stay at the local IT school if their academic goals can be met there. They get a great program, nationally award winning EC’s, however socially they are not in a fishbowl. The students that have gone on to TJ have had an exceptional experience and done quite well in college admissions. It is not for everyone.
You need to ask your student if the program is something they want regardless of the college admissions. What does the magnet school offer that the current hs does not. What will your student be eligible to participate in at the new hs, or will they feel out of place. The high level schools, as great as they are, can be dog-eat-dog. Coming in as a Jr can accentuate that.</p>

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<p>FYI: At some magnet schools, such as the one my daughter will attend in the fall, everyone enters as a junior. Several states have residential magnet schools that are only 2 or 3 year schools.</p>

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<p>All four of my kids attended/are attending magnet programs – from elementary school on through high school. They went to magnet programs because our local schools simply weren’t rigorous enough. The peer group in their magnet programs is a far more academic group; it’s cool to be smart and to perform well. On the other hand it’s more of a pressure cooker. At our school, kids do well in college admissions – we send a lot of kids to Berkeley and UCLA. We also usually have a nice number of kids who get into HYPS and other selective private schools. Of my three kids who graduated, one went to UCLA, one went to Yale and one is at a top LAC. I know they received a better education in the magnet program than they would have at our local high school. I know they made good friends. And I know that the problems that plague public schools in urban areas also exist there. </p>

<p>I would pick a school based on how I think my kid will do there and what kind of life I think they will have while they are in high school. For instance, there is a magnet program that is local that is geared to highly gifted kids. It’s academically excellent, but many of the kids work so hard that they have no time for anything else. I didn’t think that would be in the overall best interest of my kids and chose a rigorous program where I felt they would have a broader experience in addition to academics. If a child is miserable – not challenged, working too hard, not socially happy, etc. – they aren’t going to do well. So I’d go with the program that feels like a good fit for your child, not someone else’s. If kids do well, they will get into college – maybe not Harvard --but a good college. And guess what? If they do exceptionally well at the best school in the universe, the best you can hope for is a good college because college admissions is always, when you are talking about HYPS and such, a crapshoot.</p>

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<p>^^Apollo6, Thanks for pointing that out! Good luck to your daughter!!</p>

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<p>I found in my area, our magnets aren’t “bad” schools but the regular schools can be better. One high school my daughters attended was large and not a magnet, but had a good honors program, access to Yale classes and activities, and the students usually go to better colleges. There is a lone non-magnet grade school that many try to get into by moving into the area but it doesn’t always work.
I was told my a GC that out of all the schools, they all have strengths, but if you don’t really want a large emphasis on health, or the arts, business etc. the non-magnets give a more well-rounded education in our area.
I’m sure that varies state to state, but I’m glad I looked into it more when I was deciding with my children.</p>

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<p>Just for the record, TJ had an acceptance rate of about half the national average at Harvard this year. (My cousin goes there, this data isn’t published.) She says 90-100 applied, and 3 got in. Three! They waitlisted Virginia’s female Presidential Scholar! I mean, I do think that they do better than the national average at Yale and Princeton, but slightly below average at Stanford. And of course much better at MIT/Caltech. Magnet schools tend (if this is any indication) to have reputations–the best colleges “like” them to varying degrees. Harvard doesn’t particularly like the science grunts from TJ (only very rarely do they take someone planning on majoring in science), but MIT laps them up. That’s also something to look into when considering a magnet.</p>

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<p>Since my S will just be entering the magnet school this year, I have no idea how he will do there. I do not feel that if he attended our local HS (which is very good, not tippy top) he would necessarily be the val, sal or in the top ten. I feel as if he would do well there, but lots of smart kids choose not to apply to the magnet school. Furthermore, in last year’s class at the local HS there were students in the top 20 (or put another way- the top 5%) who were WL at UVA and or William & Mary. So again, I can’t really say that attending the magnet would hurt his chances of admittance.</p>

<p>I am aware that the magnet school will be more academically competitive overall and challenging, but my observation so far is that it is a far more accepting and welcoming environment than our local HS (which is not very welcoming at all).</p>