Make the switch?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>This is going to be a long post so bare with me. Thanks in advance!</p>

<p>I'm currently a junior finance major with a sure fire path onto Wall Street. I've already spent a summer at an investment bank and have already signed for another investment banking internship. The money is good, but quite frankly, I'm just not that interested in the industry anymore. I just finished up some of the core classes of my major and it was pretty awful. I'm not challenged at all by the material: my decision to become a business major was originally because 1) I'm entrepreneurial (note to future college students: majoring in business has little to do with entrepreneurship) and 2) I thought I'd just go to law school and make some money. Eventually my focus turned to even larger sums of money (the path to greatness: investment banking to private equity / hedge funds). I managed to break into a very pedigreed industry, and I definitely had to do some work to get where I am. For those of you who don't know much about financial services, I'm looking at all-in comp of about $130-140k my first year out of college if I subject myself to the torture that is an investment banking analyst program. </p>

<p>I have about a semester left of coursework to graduate. I'm "studying abroad" this coming semester and getting very little out of it as far as getting closer to graduation (elective credits). It's more of an opportunity to travel, taking some easy and interesting liberal arts courses, and learn about myself and the world. These past few months have been a depressive trough for me, but I'm now emerging from it and realizing that it's probably time to make a change and take off the golden handcuffs. </p>

<p>I'm writing today to get some advice on pursuing a "career" in engineering/physics or maybe comp sci. My interest in money hasn't waned, rather, my interest in doing something that captures my attention, has the potential to change the world, and leaves more room for entrepreneurship has risen. I'm very interested in space and the universe in general, which leads me to want to do something in the aerospace engineering field or maybe even pursue physics as a PhD (maybe not, just an idea). </p>

<p>Anyway, I probably didn't need to write all that, but it felt good to get it off my chest so thanks for reading. My question is, what do I do now? Do I finish my degree in finance? Is there a masters program that'll take me? How much does pedigree matter in this field? Another bachelors? Stop now and enroll somewhere else? That's the gist of it. </p>

<p>I have about a 3.5-3.6 GPA, all A's and B's. Unfortunately my GPA has been on a downtrend since the coursework has become progressively more mind-numbing, skip more class than I attend, and figured school didn't matter much anymore that I basically had a job. I graduated in the top 1% of my HS class, top 50 undergrad institution (attractive financial aid), SAT score about 2200 (didn't study, not sure if it matters anymore but I could retake if need be). On that note, if there is a test that I need to take, I can probably do really well on it. My math coursework is pretty embarrassing: I took AP Calc my sophomore year of high school, got a 5 with ease, but haven't had a real math course since then (unless you count AP Stat) because no more were available in high school, and my lackluster business major didn't require anymore. I included comp sci because I figured it was related to engineering and coding was a hobby of mine a while back. Didn't keep up with it after selling a project of mine, and I'm more of a practical user (need a purpose / new project). I'm good at it (experience is mostly in web dev though), so if that's something to take into account, I can get back into it. I'm not particularly fond of institutionalized education (I like a quicker pace. Not sure why every degree program is 4 years long, no matter the content), but I'm willing to subject myself to it if I find it the means to a worthwhile end. </p>

<p>I'm hoping that making this leap won't bring me into another mind-numbing job (despite the interesting coursework), so if you could point me in the direction of a good site for learning about the field as a career, that'd be great. I'd rather not dump this gig I already have to take up another boring one and make much less money. My vision is Tony Stark (jk, kinda). If you're familiar with WallStreetOasis.com, a site like that would be perfect. </p>

<p>Thanks again for reading and I appreciate your time.</p>

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<p>Look at the professional societies web sites. For physics, [APS</a> Physics | APS Home](<a href=“http://www.aps.org%5DAPS”>http://www.aps.org) and for engineering, look at [Engineering</a> Standards, News and Resources for Engineers - ASME](<a href=“http://asme.org%5DEngineering”>http://asme.org), [Materials</a> Research Society: Advancing Materials. Improving the Quality of Life](<a href=“http://www.mrs.org%5DMaterials”>http://www.mrs.org), [IEEE</a> - The world’s largest professional association for the advancement of technology](<a href=“http://ieee.org%5DIEEE”>http://ieee.org)</p>

<p>You will need to take at least 3 years of courses for physics: calculus through differential equations (1-2 years depending on where you start), 1 to 1.5 years of general physics, classical mechanics (1 year), electrodynamics (1 year), quantum physics (1 year). For engineering, you will have to start with the Calculus and general physics and then engineering courses.</p>

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<p>That is a lot of money you’re potentially turning down. But I suppose there’s something to be said for doing work you actually enjoy. After all, this is decades of life that we’re talking about.</p>

<p>I don’t know too much about what it’s like for other fields, but software development is booming right now. I think we’re just on the cusp of what can be done with software across a variety of domains. There’s plenty of room for everyone’s ideas, and it has never been easier to make a startup (all you need in the beginning is a computer).</p>

<p>If you don’t want to do a four-year program, there’s always the option of doing a master’s degree (they will probably have you do some undergrad level stuff at first in order to catch up).</p>

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<p>I’d say stay in Business, but try adding some more techie courses such related to econ, business analytics, computational analysis, etc.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input everyone. Still hoping to hear some more.</p>

<p>@sumzup: Unfortunately the money only nearly doubles after a couple years. Thanks.</p>

<p>@colorado_mom: Thanks. And the outcome being what, exactly? And why?</p>

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<p>What makes you think the grass is greener on the other side? Engineering work is rather disappointing for the best of the bunch, and rather cyclical for the rest.
Not saying you certainly shouldn’t do it, but if you decided IB isn’t your thing, why would CS/engineering be better?</p>

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<p>Thanks for your post, Neo. I actually addressed both of those points in my original post. One of my questions was - essentially - does engineering as a job suck despite the interesting coursework? </p>

<p>And as for why one would enjoy engineering and not IB, or vice versa… well, because they’re different? lol</p>

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<p>The coursework isn’t quite as interesting as you think. Looks interesting from a distance, but no sane person can actually enjoy the day-to-day experience of going to class and learning material unless it’s a class in which they’re relearning material they already know or it’s so easy that it doesn’t challenge them. No matter how much you like chemistry, for example, eventually looking through tables for problem sets and sifting through inaccurate experimental data for a lab report will seriously take a toll on your interest in the subject. Few people can maintain both a high GPA and a “love of learning” throughout the course of an engineering education because working hard on difficult coursework really, really sucks.
Engineering jobs are different, for better or worse. It’s easier to be an “A class worker” than an A-level student, for quite a few reasons. The pay is not too bad, in the mid 5-figure starting with the potential to go into low 6-figures by the end of a career. Jobs are generally not awful and not great; nothing you would do in your free time but not grueling labor. The market can be cyclical, and engineers are subject to being laid off on a whim. There are a few jobs that are more lucrative (defense work, google and friends, etc), but the allure is usually the work itself, not the job security or pay (which is above average but not much higher).
IB is better with regards to money. That’s about it. No better place to go if you want a low-risk lavish lifestyle.
Those are my thoughts. I could continue, but I think this is a good enough place to stop and ask: what say you?</p>

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<p>That helps a lot. Great insight. Puts things in perspective. I guess it doesn’t matter what job I go into, I’m always going to be unsatisfied if I’m not on board something entrepreneurial running the show. </p>

<p>And I guess my real regret is the education I’ve had. I honestly feel like I’ve been robbed and feel dumber today than when I first began college. But you’re right, it’s probably just appealing from a distance, especially when I’ve been taking classes on management, marketing, and other theoretical business nonsense that doesn’t belong in a college; I’m sure dealing with all that crap, especially when I’m not really sold on the actual job, would kill that pretty quickly. Doesn’t sound completely worth it to give up some immediate income in the short term to go into large amounts of debt for another bachelors or grad school. </p>

<p>It’s probably not just IB, but all jobs. Maybe I’d be better suited by picking up a laymen’s book on engineering/physics and satisficing my interest that way.</p>

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<p>If you want to actually learn some physics on your own, I suggest this:
[Fundamentals</a> of Physics Extended: David Halliday, Robert Resnick, Jearl Walker: 9780471758013: Amazon.com: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Physics-Extended-David-Halliday/dp/0471758019/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Fundamentals”>http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Physics-Extended-David-Halliday/dp/0471758019/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8)
Basically a giant well-written tome that covers all physics from mechanics through nuclear physics for just $20. Any physics you would care for is in there, and then some. It’s no fun when you actually have to learn the material as part of a class, but maybe you’ll have more fun when you can choose to learn whatever you want at your leisure and never have to be tested on it. Only downside is you don’t get a degree for self-study.</p>

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<p>Do you have any ideas for companies you want to start, or are you more enamored by the idea of being your own boss?</p>

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<p>Well, I would not advise engineering students to think that the grass is necessarily greener in investment banking:
[Warning:</a> Banking May Be Hazardous to Your Health - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204062704577223623824944472.html]Warning:”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204062704577223623824944472.html)</p>

<p>On the other hand, the OP is a little bit late trying to change to engineering or CS (and may be, as noted above, also thinking that the grass is greener than it is in engineering or CS). Long sequences of prerequisites mean that one semester is far short of the time needed to complete an engineering degree.</p>

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<p>I knew IB was stressful, but I didn’t realize it was that soul-sucking. There’s no way that $130-140k is sufficient compensation for life-shortening hell.</p>

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<p>To be fair, that article is a little dramatic and applies more to people who make a career out of investment banking (post MBA, it’s associates that are groomed to become managing directors). Most of the kids you see going from top schools to Wall Street are doing analyst programs and then bouncing. Analysts are for the most part there for a 2 year contract so that they can be recruited by private equity firms and hedge funds, usually resulting in less hours and more money (PE associates make 200k+ at the lower end their 3rd year out of college). But yeah, the life style definitely isn’t easy and stress is always there. </p>

<p>As far as entrepreneurship, I’m definitely into the web startup scene, and long term I’d really like to be a part of the coming space exploration wave. I took a few minutes to look up what founders of these companies did in college: Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX, was a business and physics double major. Dropped out of a grad program in applied physics to found a web start up with his brother. 4 years later, makes around $20m I believe after selling it, then founds PayPal, makes hundreds of millions, and then gambles it on SpaceX. Physics major, yes, but not sure how much that helped him build rockets (or found paypal for that matter). He’s an entrepreneur first, then scientist. Not sure how much he’s in the weeds of the program, if at all, but he’s definitely someone I admire. </p>

<p>You guys are probably right. Classic case of grass is greener. Either way, I don’t intend to make a career out of finance, just want to build up some cash. Worst case scenario, I take the IB gig, join the aerospace & defense coverage group, learn the industry, then go from there. I’m beginning to realize that my expectations of job quality and satisfaction right out of college, or in the near future at all really, are too high.</p>

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<p>Yep, ucb is pretty much spot-on with that article.
The money in IB is very good, but the life is pretty brutal for everyone except those who can make it to the very top of the food chain.</p>

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If you can’t bear to go without a safety net, you’ll find entrepreneurship is a living hell. If you want to go for it, finish your degree then go. Otherwise, chances are you’ll never get around to it.</p>

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<p>There’s no shortage of passion for science in the engineering world, but the energy level you have to have as an ibanker is something that might serve you very well as an engineer. A lot of startups and top companies are itching to find those kind of people. I have a handful of white collar types in my family (my Dad is one of seven kids, five of whom are either investment bankers, lawyers, or married to them) so I’m pretty familiar with that culture. I get the impression that ibanking IS challenging but only because of the types of people you have to do with - it’s not intellectually challenging. If you want to feel good about the work you do, if you want to create something, and if you want to be challenged, you can and should do engineering. If you ask me, Silicon Valley is a lot more exciting and fun than Wall Street, especially with the finance industry in the shape it’s in right now.</p>

<p>Another thing: Your degree doesn’t matter if you want to start a company. Don’t use college as an excuse to avoid having to actually go out there and take a risk. You don’t need to learn about deformable bodies to start a company, but you do have to an incredible amount of energy and passion along with the talent to beat out the insane competition. I doubt Steve Jobs sat around and thought “Gee, I’d like to be an entrepreneur, I wonder what I should major in?” He found something he really liked and then found a way to sell it. It didn’t hurt that personal computing was about to change the world with or without Steve Jobs. Once personal computers become household staples and people warmed up for the internet, people like Elon Musk showed up. Both of those guys had their success in yesterday’s booms. Worry about tomorrow’s.</p>

<p>The grass is greener on the engineering side if you’re talking about quality of life. I know engineers who are practically grinning every morning because they can’t wait to go to work. That just doesn’t seem to happen in finance but everyone is different and money makes some happier than others, I guess.</p>

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<p>Definitely agree with you, I don’t think college has anything to do with entrepreneurship. Like I wrote, I’ve already had some success in my own web dev endeavors and that had nothing to do with schooling. But I get the impression that it takes some specialized knowledge to innovate in the engineering industry (or anything scientific for that matter), and I think that would come from some education and experience. Picking up a programming language is pretty easy, engineering seems much less accessible. </p>

<p>Can you tell me more about what these grinning engineers are doing, and their backgrounds? You have to understand that I don’t have a strong grasp of what the best of engineering has to offer, or the more commonplace work, etc. Like with a finance/econ degree, you can be doing the quarterly books on the lower end from a city college or you can be advising f500 execs and investing billions of dollars on the higher end from Harvard. </p>

<p>I don’t have to make a decision until late into next year, and I want as much information as possible to mull over.</p>

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<p>Stick with business. Make some good money and then save your earnings to help pay for more engineering/computer science courses. Quick question for you, is it out of the ordinary for a biology major to work in an investment bank? I’m a bio major with a 3.63 gpa looking at getting into business. Thanks for your input. Good luck in whatever you do.</p>

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<p>No, I’ve seen all majors. Better to take a couple accounting courses if you can though. You kinda need them and it demonstrates interest. It can also be a good background if you’re looking to join a healthcare coverage group. </p>

<p>Also, if anyone can chime in on some of my original questions about pursuing another bachelors vs. a masters, please!</p>

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<p>Usually a masters is the better choice, but a degree needs to have a purpose. You don’t just get an MS for the hell of it, unless you want to waste a few thousand dollars and 1-2 years.</p>