The NPC for Union came out at 50,000 for us, as high as Rochester but not as good of a program fit. I was surprised because I thought Union was often considered pretty affordable. I’m not sure if they often give merit that is not accounted for in the NPC. But at that price I feel like there are other schools that fit better.
They both meet need…and both have merit although not sure if stackable. That might just be how your NPC computes - you have less need than think or hoped.
Did Union include any merit aid in its NPC estimate? If not, then it could, perhaps, be stacked.
1 Like
How far away will be too far?
How far away has your son been from your family? Has he done a camp away? Is he the kind of kid who will handle difficulties on his own or would be okay with supportive phone calls? Or does he really do best with someone with him in-person?
If he does best with some in-person support, where do the people live who he would feel comfortable receiving the support from? Then, what distance would those people be willing to go (i.e. 30m, 2h, 6h, etc)? For instance, maybe his parents are willing to do 6 hours while his grandparents might be willing to do 2h and a family friend might be willing to do 30m. Thus, if in-person support is important to him, there might be a series of radii around all the potential sources of support.
How important is the school size?
What is it about school size that is important to him? Is it class sizes? Is it the variety of classes offered? Is it the bureaucracy (or lack thereof)? Is it the amount of attention he is likely to receive (more eyes that will likely do/ask something if they see something)? Is it the name recognition beyond a local area? Is it the likelihood of finding “his people” on the campus? Is it a sense of unease with too many people/hubbub, or a sense that there are too few and that it seems that everyone thinks they know you?
Is it more important to pick schools with more of the majors he might be interested in, or more important to pick schools for other fit factors?
First off, he needs to go where he will be happy and thrive. If the culture at a university is going to make him uncomfortable and miserable, it doesn’t matter how great the academic fit is. Is your son the kind of person who does best in an environment where he’s one of the top students? Or does he prefer to be surrounded by top students and everyone is needing to hustle to try and keep up?
Next up, what are the things that make your son happy? What makes him feel comfortable? For some people, they enjoy running or biking and need safe places to do that off-campus. Some people barely want to step foot off the campus while in college while others want to have nearby opportunities to explore off-campus. Does he want a place where he can explore on foot or do people pretty much need a car if they’re going to do anything off-campus? Some people might need a Starbucks, or Thai food, or access to a certain type of health professional. What are those deal-makers or dealbreakers for him?
I’d also have your son try weighting some of his values. For instance, would he rather have smaller classes but then need to do more customization of majors/studies to get the field he wants? Or would he rather have larger classes but then have a predesigned major in his field of interest? Would he rather have all the majors that he’s interested in, but potential difficulty in changing between them? Or would he rather have fewer majors but then lack the stress of worrying about getting into his final preferred major?
I’d also look at all the schools and see, how involved is the career center? Is it a resource available for all who go looking for it, or is it something that’s incorporated into classes or into some kind of formalized college plan that students are supposed to start using it?
Also, what college visits has he done? I might suggest U. Mass (big), Tufts or Quinnipiac (medium), and Gordon (small) to see how your son reacts to the different sizes.
4 Likes
These are so helpful! I will think through them with him. Thank you!
2 Likes
It was one of the first NPCs I ran, and I don’t have it noted in my spreadsheet how the aid broke down, so I will recheck that.
1 Like
@AustenNut gave you great suggestions…if you haven’t taken your son on any college tours yet, you might be surprised by the strong reaction and opinions he might have.
We just got done taking S24 on his first round of tours. He had thoughts and opinions on every school, and some of those were instantaneous. Loved the UMass Amherst campus aesthetic and at the same time decided it was too big a school for him.
Hated Clark University and made Shawshank Redemption jokes re: being ‘Institutionalized’ by the end of his theoretical time there.
Loved the quiet of Hampshire and its environmental ethos…and doesn’t want to apply to a super small school with such open ended structure (no departments, no majors, no grades - just written evaluations and portfolios/projects).
None of those schools worked for him but he learned just as much, if not more, at schools he didn’t want to attend than he did at schools that are still on his list. He now knows that he wants a campus under 5k (preferably under 3k, but larger than 1500), quiet campus, walkable to a town/food options/entertainment, able to easily get public transportation to a larger more urban center.
6 Likes
If you’re going to visit URoch and Syracuse, it could be worth taking a look at SUNY Oswego while you’re out there. Smaller public (6000 undergrads) that’s very hands-on (project-based learning and a robust co-op program) and they offer a “flagship match plus meals” deal to MA students. Plus, they have CogSci and Linguistics majors as well as other programs that could be of interest, including CS, Interaction Design, a 5-year BA/MA in Psychology/Human Computer Interaction, and multiple Business programs.
5 Likes
I just had a chance to rerun it, and it does include a merit aid estimate, unfortunately. (13K grant, 23K merit) At that price it is borderline ~48K. (We can contribute 35K/year, and anything above that he has to come up with himself. He isn’t a great saver, so I think 15K+ a year might be tricky for him to come up with.)
I think we will focus on investigating schools that are less expensive or a better fit first. But I might go back and refresh my memory on exactly how good of a fit it is to judge whether the cheaper schools are nearly as good or pretty significantly worse fit.
1 Like
Throwing in my two cents for NEU- (I’m an incoming frosh at NEU this fall)
It’s a bigger school (15k undergrads)- and would definitely be a reach, regardless, but the alternate entry programs such as NU.in (1 semester abroad → 2nd semester and beyond at Boston campus), and Global Scholars (1 year abroad, each semester a different location before going to Boston campus starting 2nd year)- are significantly easier or at least, somewhat easier to get into. No guarantee, but worth trying. /musing
Politically/religiously, the campus leans liberal/is liberal from what I know and I doubt faith will get in the way very much of making friends- it’s a diverse campus (kinda, at least) and everyone comes from everywhere. /warmly
The best chance you have of getting in is either ED or EA, although I know EA tends to skew towards the most acceptances after talking to a myriad of other accepted/enrolled/currently attending students- although I’m not sure on the exact stats of admits per round, so don’t quote me. /warmly, thoughtful
If you have questions about NEU, feel free to ask me in PMs!
1 Like
It has been ages since we looked at this, but at our LPS, a kid had to be performing at 2 grades below grade level to qualify for testing/special ed resources.
There were exceptions but it wasn’t clear how they were applied. Also, the findings were almost always ones the school could handle itself, not ones they would have to pay another district to take. The latter point was why most families ended up paying for a private evaluation.
With that said, I think it can be helpful for a kid to get professional testing. Kids who are bright have lots of ways to compensate or get by, and these can catch up with them in a more challenging setting. This can impact their performance, confidence, and mental health. It sounds like the executive coaching is helping, so that is good. Some kids are more receptive to these strategies when they feel like there’s a "reason ", which a dx provides.
This is definitely not true any longer. Data does need to be presented that shows the student is having some issues…but performing 2 years below grade level is not necessarily needed. There are other markers that are brought to referral meetings that will trigger an evaluation. And really, sometimes that formal evaluation shows that the student is actually having more trouble than thought.
But this is off topic…and can be directed to a different thread if needed.
In reading your most recent posts on the Class of '24 thread (Parents of the HS Class of 2024 - #3641 by MAmomto4 and a few comments below), I’ve put my thinking cap back on:
In post #73 I see you mention Lehigh and Lafayette, but I don’t see Bucknell (PA, about 3700 undergrads). Did you consider it? It offers several ABET-accredited engineering fields and a major in linguistics. I know that you have concerns about Greek life at Lehigh, which may also be a factor at Bucknell, but it might at least be researching to see if it’s worth an app.
Trinity (CT, about 2200 undergrads) also offers an ABET-accredited engineering degree. Its B.S. is ABET-accredited, but it also offers a B.A. In addition to CS, there’s an Interdisciplinary Computing Major which he could likely combine with psychology, neuroscience, etc.
Fairfield (CT, about 4600 undergrads) offers ABET-accredited majors in biomedical, CS, electrical, and mechanical engineering. It offers majors in behavioral neuroscience as well as business analytics. It also offers minors in both applied statistics and mathematical statistics.
Have you looked into Babson and/or Olin? As part of the consortium along with Wellesley, they have cross-registration opportunities and seem to have an emphasis on a liberal arts grounding within their various areas. Of course, Babson is more business and Olin is engineering, but I’d explore to see if something might be a good fit within those (these are the Babson concentrations). There’s also a certificate in engineering offered from Olin for students from Babson or Brandeis. Perhaps @Bill_Marsh might have something to add?
U. of Hartford (CT, about 4k undergrads) is ABET-accredited in multiple engineering fields. There are a number of majors that seem as though they might interest your son, like Business Analytics & Managerial Economics, Data Science, Interdisciplinary Engineering Studies, Human-Computer Interaction Design, Risk Management and Insurance, and there’s also an accelerated path for a Master’s in Organizational Psychology for those who realize by their junior year that’s what they want. And if a low cost is one of his primary values now, I suspect that he’d receive excellent merit aid from Hartford.
U. of Maine is ABET-accredited in many fields, and as a National Merit Semi-Finalist he would still qualify for tuition (15 credit hours/semester) plus room & board. With only about 10k undergrads, this is definitely a smaller flagship. And costs don’t get lower than…free.
Merrimack has about 4100 undergrads and is ABET-accredited in many fields.
U. of New Hampshire has fewer than 12k undergrads, many ABET-accredited fields, a major in linguistics, and I suspect that the honors college would be easier to get into here than at U. Mass, should he not get in at U. Mass. Students in the Analytics & Data Science major can concentrate in either field, there’s a major in linguistics, and an array of other opportunities I’m too tired to link.
The College of New Jersey has about 7k undergrads, many ABET-accredited fields, and offers a minor in linguistics.
5 Likes
I had previously removed Bucknell because I thought it was too far, but he has made it clear that, although he would love to be close to home, he doesn’t consider it a big factor. 
I had forgotten about it since then but we will look again.
UMaine (and Tulsa and UT Dallas) are on the list to look into if he is confirmed NMSF. He is very interested but doesn’t want to get too invested before he finds out in Sept.
We’ll look into the others more, thank you!
4 Likes
As always, great suggestions @AustenNut!
One more consideration: U Maine charges MA residents the equivalent of in-state tuition at the flagship (UMass Amherst).
4 Likes
I’ve been very happy S24 is more engaged with the college search process this summer. He has been happy to do college visits, research schools, and have discussions about possibilities. A few points he is solidifying:
(1) He really wants to have engineering as a possibility. (I was very skeptical about this since he felt pretty ‘meh’ about AP Physics 1 this year. However, he is currently taking the equivalent of AP Physics C E&M but without labs and he really likes it! I might have guessed since his dad and I both don’t love mechanics but do love E&M.) Even looking at schools with very flexible curricula, he would need to start college assuming he would be on an engineering track because there are so many engineering requirements. This reduces the need to find schools that allow you to enter completely undecided and still enter engineering later. It also means that schools that require you to apply to the engineering college as an incoming student are fine, as long as it is easy to transfer out of the engineering school and into whatever school has the social sciences.
(2) He would still really like a school with very flexible general ed requirements and/or that will take a lot of his dual enrollment credit. Both of these types of colleges would allow him to have more control over the non-engineering courses he takes. That could give him some flexibility in the first year or 2 to explore some of his other interests, and if he decides he likes something else better than engineering and switches out after 1 or 1.5 year, to still have space in his schedule to finish in 4 years.
(3) Cost matters to him. He would really rather not pay anything out of his own pocket, and would rather keep costs below the $35K/year we have set aside for him. He would consider paying his own money for a school that he felt was amazing for him. But his view is that there are lots of colleges with a variety of characteristics, and he is an easy-going guy, so he should be able to find something that he is happy with for less than $40K/year. He also knows it is possible/likely that he will want to do grad school later, so if he can spend less than what we have saved, he will have some money for grad school later.
(4) It is important to him that he be surrounded by people who want to be at college and enjoy learning. But he also doesn’t want to be at a school where there is a really driven or competitive culture.
(5) He like a “pretty” (=trees, grass, & attractive buildings) campus. He doesn’t like an urban campus (e.g. BU and to a lesser extent Northeastern) but he doesn’t mind a defined campus that is in a city (e.g. Brown or WPI). Location isn’t a veto, but it does matter.
Here are the schools he is currently considering:
Very Likely
(if NMSF; would want to visit first but waiting until finding out about NMSF)
University of Tulsa (good size, nice campus, we have tons of family & friends nearby since I’m from there originally)
UT Dallas (some majors he really likes, less excited about location)
U Maine (maybe student body not as good a fit, but likes location)
(probably only if not NMSF)
SUNY Oswego (~$26K; some non-standard majors and good location with family close)
UMass Dartmouth (~$26K; really nothing going for it except location & cost)
University of Hartford (~$35K; have to check out location, some interesting majors)
Likely
UMass Amherst (~$33K; He was originally worried about ability to change majors but since switching out of engineering is pretty easy it could be okay. They have possibly the best selection of majors of any school he is considering. However, as a Mass resident applying for engineering, it makes admission a little less likely and Honors College almost impossible. He’s not sure about the atmosphere without the benefit of the honors college.)
Less Likely
Lehigh (NPC says $31K?! which is great; a little unsure on the party atmosphere reputation but it has lots of programs he is very interested in and my husband says their engineers are very good)
Trinity CT (~$37; likes the programs but would need to visit to see about location)
University of Rochester (NPC says $50K which is too much, but maybe merit aid possible; really likes the programs a lot, and it is very close to family which is nice)
Reach/Ultra Reach
Brown (~$39,000; Probably no chance so he might not apply, but he really loves it and would be willing to ED. Pretty much everything about it hits all his top preferences.)
BU (NPC says ~$37,000 but maybe less if NMF? We’re not sure how that works. He doesn’t like the campus BUT if it was very affordable, he would consider it because he likes the variety of programs and the reputation is good.)
Northeastern (NPC says ~$44,000 but maybe less if NMF? The campus is “okay” but he likes the co-op program and the really unusual interdisciplinary majors.)
Some schools he has eliminated:
- The NPCs on Union, Tufts, Bucknell, and Fairfield all came in close to $50K/year.
- Clarkson, Hofstra, & CWRU were all about $45K and he wasn’t excited about the locations.
- UNH, TCNJ, Quinnipiac, Merrimack, and Lafayette were all close to $45K and didn’t have programs that were markedly more attractive to him than cheaper schools.
4 Likes
Everything you are asking for except maybe size is Alabama.
It’s gorgeous, modern, grass - when kids visit, it’s game over. We’ve read that many times on here and that’s my son who chose it over Purdue. He unexpectedly visited with friends on job shadow/visit college day. The campus and the Honors dorm is all singles with 2 to a bathroom - that was a dream come true. Well a solo bathroom would have been better.
When you say wants to be around other kids that want to be in college - that may not always be the big public schools or even the smaller schools who take in a variety of students - but it will be in engineering at any school if those kids are to last past the first semester.
NMF or NMSF are great but if this student has a high gpa and does well on sat or act which is a given, you can chase those schools above your budget in hopes they come in, but you can find solid schools well under the $35k as well with little effort.
It depends on the trade offs the student is willing to make.
Schools like Bama, Miss State, Kansas, Kansas state, Iowa state, UNL, Kentucky, maybe Miami of Ohio, Florida State, etc - take the risk out of pricing concerns.
Maybe they’re not where he likes or what but they leave money in your pocket and are the affordable safeties in case the desired don’t come through.
And if he makes visits, he might see some of the most modern, well equipped facilities he can imagine. My son never planned to tour or apply to his so you never know what you’ll find if you do.
And while it won’t impact my lifestyle, having $80k in savings over his original intended is a nice outcome.
The large publics will also be more gracious with AP and DE credits - my son started a second year but still did take 4 years to graduate.
Good luck.
2 Likes
Good idea. We’ll check out some of these publics and see how they compare to the others he has researched. We stopped checking out OOS public flagships after UConn, Penn State, Pitt, and Michigan all came in over his price range. But of course there could be other state flagships that are lower.
He recently made it clear to me that the desire to be close to home mattered more to me than it did to him. 
For similar cost and program offerings he would prefer close to home over far away. But, he’s perfectly willing to go far away if he gets something for that (amazing program, significantly reduced cost, or ideally both).
1 Like
The reality is, short of a few schools, if a college is ABET accredited, he’s likely to find a solid choice. My kid had 20 interviews and 5 offers out of Bama and is making more than the average of higher ranked schools- at least theyr aversges in past years. It’s the kid more than the school that matters is my belief.
Yes UConn, Pitt, PSU and Michigan are not schools for cost chasers. Very little merit. M
In that area, more like a URI or really U Maine. And the SUNY, especially if in state.
If you have demonstrated need, UVA and UNC are the only two publics nationwide who meet and for engineering UNC is out so you can look at UVA (if you have need).
Other than that and the NJITs of the world for NMF or URI/Maine in the NE, you have to go South, Midwest, or Southwest - New Mexico, Arizona, etc to chase merit.
But many schools have tables - if your gpa is this and sat/act that, you know the merit up front. No NPC required. The only thing you don’t know about is future year tuition costs but some even lock these for four years once you start.
So If cost is the top consideration, you need to alter the where and what types of schools you are looking at. You can still go for those you like, but need to supplement with those that will work. And add a few that you’re pretty sure will work (if you like them over the true will 100% work).
Here are examples of guaranteed merit. Note at Alabama a 30 act in engineering - add another $2500 scholarship. It’s merit like this which is why they are 58% OOS. And again it’s just an example - there are others.
3 Likes
So his “perfect school is in the Northeast (liberal leaning local politics) with about 7,000 kids in close proximity to a major city like Boston. He is interested in being part of a community that is highly politically aware, active and progressive. I am assuming based on his preference that he is indifferent to the point of dismissiveness of sports culture and seeks a school with a modest at best Greek community. Also assuming he is aware that Browns students tend to be extremely intellectually curious and eclectic which is why they choose Browns open curriculum. Lastly, I assume he is aware that Browns campus is populated by a collection of determined non conformists and if anything anti “preppy”.
With all that in mind I am not sure that a school like Bama is a great fit for a kid wanting to ED ar Brown beyond being cheap. Both great schools but extremely different atmospheres, students, cultures, locations etc.
For those suggesting large southern SEC huge Greek presence state schools how familiar are you with the kids top choice Brown?
7 Likes