"Making music for video games" - what kind of degree is that?

College Majors Music Major
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@CaliDad2020 Thanks for the extremely helpful advice! I had a feeling this would be a tough gig where you’d have to do a lot of “sales pitches” and getting your name and work out there. I did think about having S shadow a studio’s audio department to see if he’d like the work.

This is another reason why I thought UT Austin might be a good place, because there are so many video game companies out there right now. Anyone know if they have a good film department? On the flip side, I’ve learned from this forum that OoS tuition is very high there, and acceptance rates quite low.

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@compmom The difference between BA and BM is how much music courseload one takes towards the degree, right? People are telling me that with bassoon, chances of getting a scholarship are good. Would they mean good towards a BM or does it make a difference (BA)?

@calidad2020 Does graduation from a “name brand” school matter or is this the kind of work where once graduated, your ability (and portfolio) sells itself?

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@dblreedmama

as far as MFA - no need unless he really digs it or gets very specific about job while in school (or thinks he might want to teach.)

Places to look in FLA for good video game students/programs (you/son have to do the legwork to see if they have music programs and if they are any good.) All except UCF are private, though, so they don’t really help. Google will let you know which states schools have good programs. Below are some of the better local programs (in no particular order.)

Full Sail, as mentioned

UCF has an outstanding graduate academy for gaming. I know nothing about the rest of the school, but if you are close to there, he should look for some kind of event that features the academy and go check it out (they probably have a capstone “film festival” kind of thing he could go check out)

Ringling is very good for animation/gaming. No idea about music.

Savannah (I know it’s not FLA, but depending where you are in the state, might not be too far. I think they only do sound design, not composing.)

DAVE is also great for gaming but I doubt it has music of any note.

One other thing, if you can figure out a way to swing it, I’d suggest considering the bigger school/wider program options unless he’s 100% sure gaming is what he wants to do. If you study music production at USC or NYU, for instance, you have an easier time sliding into another major if it turns out not to be his deal. The Cal Arts/DAVE/Savannahs of the world have less flexibility and more limited student body diversity (by subject/interest/career goals.

But really, if he can get a gig, even just plugging in cables, for a music production/composition company or in the music dept. of a game or TV company, he’ll quickly get an idea if it’s for him or not. If you are in or close to Miami there are studios there, and obviously some in Orlando. EA is in FLA, nSpace as well. some smaller companies where he might be able to get in the door - werd, ootii, etc.

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Hi. I will PM you. We went through a similar scenario recently

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BA is usually 1/4-1/3 music courses, often with distribution requirements. BM is usually 2/3-3/4 music courses.

BM programs have auditions or require portfolios. For a BA program, an arts supplement to the common application can be submitted (with resume, teachers, letters of recommendation, and sample of work).

I think it’s great that you are getting the lay of the land, so to speak, but again, it is early. Help him have experiences that are clarifying, over the next year or so.

Why exactly is he focused on video games? We don’t know much about what kind of work he is now doing, how he does it and where he shares it. At any rate, whatever he wants now may very well change :slight_smile:

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@compmom He likes to play video games, is why I think he wants to make music for them.

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@dblreedmama

Full disclosure, my experience was more in film/TV/commercials/promo/on-line content and is a while ago now, but I did come in contact with a lot of composers/producers/score-writers/engineers etc in my travels and many of the “old media” folks also do games.

  1. a name brand school will never hurt. A student with USC, NYU, CMU (and to be clear, I don’t know all the top music production/composing programs but you can find the lists on line) or any place that makes them seen “smart/talented” will get a little longer look, but at the end of the day, for most gigs, once you pass the minimum requirements (some “regular” jobs have BA/BFA requirements, most that you pitch for simply want to hear your reel and/or submission track) it will 100% come down to how good you are, how easy you are to work with and how hard you work, with how good you are being #1 concern.

Looking at more successful folks that actually do the job (I looked up a bunch for fun, you got me interested) on the one hand you’ve got Martin O’Donnell who has done a bunch of Bungie’s games. Went to Wheaton (Ill) College for classical composition, then USC for masters in comp. Did 10 years of jingles, etc. (In pretty typical fashion he and partner formed company with their own studio that did jingle/promo.) Eventually found his way to Bungie for Myst, obviously the liked what he did, he became their go-to guy.

GTA’s Craig Connor on the other hand seems to have been your basic Scottish musician/DJ/band guy, who ended up working for a small Dundee video company, then worked for a while till he did GTA. (for other GTA they licensed most of their music from existing tracks or as assignments from known writers/producers to feed their “radio station” concept.)

Ramin Djawadi is a Berklee grad (does big games and big films like Iron Man) He can do a wide range of really eclectic music.

Michael Giacchino went to NY’s SVA, worked at Universal and Disney while taking composition night courses at UCLA (so the story goes) got into video games, then TV and then films.

Jack Wall got a civil engineering degree from Drexel before going into music, first as a production engineer then composer.

Jake Kaufman - dropped out of HS. Dunno if he ever got any formal training

Austin Wintory went to USC.

Inon Zur studied at with various folks, but seems to have done 2 years at UCLA.

Schyman USC.

Hans Zimmer kicked around the London music scene before going into film composing.

Peter McConell - music at Harvard

Jason Graves - USC (dunno if he finished.)

George Sanger (Team Fat) - occidental

as far as people I’ve worked with (truthfully I don’t know where any of the established people went to school. Once they have a body of work that’s all you go by.) but for newer “trying to break in” types (realizing I’m in SoCal) I can remember off-hand folks USC, Cal Arts, Whittier College, LACC, and others I’m not thinking of.

So, this only goes to show, I think, there are lots of ways to get there, but certainly many of the successful video game composers have gone to “name brand” schools - and a decent number haven’t at all.

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@dblreedmama:
One thing some have mentioned that I suspect will be a big deal is going to be networking, unless video game music is totally different than my impression, I suspect that the jobs out there come about through networking, rather than submitting a resume to apply for a job , and in looking at a program the opportunity to network may be a good thing. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a ‘name school’ (more on that in a bit), but rather a program where teachers and students have ties to to the industry. The problem with programs like USC and NYU is they are very, very expensive, and like almost any music job even if a person ‘makes it’, they will have a number of years where they will be proving themselves, and getting ‘name recognition’ with a hefty amount of debt may not be worth it…likewise I suspect that there is no magic formula for this, video game music development is not that formalized despite the size of the market, and having one degree over another may not matter, a BM from a standard composition program likely won’t get someone into being offered gigs in this area any more than someone who took night courses or something, it comes down to the student and what they want to do. A BM in composition, or an MM, however, might work for the student if they have an interest in writing music more broadly, to get performed, and it is something to think of.

I looked at Michael Giacchino’s biography, and while a student at SVA he got an internship at Universal (unpaid) that ended up turning into a job, then he moved to disney (he wasn’t doing music), he had taken night classes at Juilliard and then when he moved to LA, took classes at UCLA in orchestration and the like. Working in the industry he made contacts that allowed him to move over to Disney’s interactive division where he was able to talk his way into doing music and so forth…Again, I think looking at things like networking may be important as well, finding places that have links to game design and so forth, rather than plain name recognition.

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Networking can begin even before college, must occur during college or conservatory, and certainly after school. Professors, master class teachers, other students, summer project connections are all useful in networking. Musicprnt is completely correct that networking is very important is music composition and multimedia as it is in most professions.

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So many possible paths. But no matter what path, a lot of hard work is involved, and many do get a “foundation” one way or the other. I hope the summer program and theory class are helpful…there is still plenty of time for him to build some experience and clarify his goals. As is clear from this thread, the possibilities after high school are quite varied and many of them will work- if he develops his talent through work and yes, networking. Good luck!

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Thank you all so much for your very helpful responses. I read them and will re-read each line very carefully to mine the wisdom gleaned from your experiences. I appreciate it very much! I’m sure I will have more questions too! :smiley:

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