<p>EMM1,
I hope you are right about the expanding bubble for athletes! Thanks...</p>
<p>EMM1, Good point about D3 coaches without pull. Pomona in same boat as Caltech.</p>
<p>My understanding is that Pomona can take this position because their teams are drawn from a consortium with two other of the less selective Claremont colleges. Is that right?</p>
<p>That I don't know. Generally, I've found DIII coaches are pretty forthcoming about what they can and can't do for you in admissions. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking what that particular college's process for admitting athletes might be. If a kid truly prefers a DIII but is being pushed to commit to a D1 (Ivy or not) it would be nice to know if the coach can legitimately give any assurances of admission.</p>
<p>EMM, not exactly. It is two vs. three: Pomona and Pitzer are one team, and the other three colleges comprise CMS Athletics. Pitzer does not attract the most athletic kind of kids, and Pomona's coaches have no say whatsoever in the admission process, so PP teams in general are much weaker than CMS. CMS coaches do have some leverage, as I understand.</p>
<p>Ninos, thanks so much for laying out your approach. It sounds completely sensible and I think we will follow it - and hope for similar results! He will stay in contact with all the coaches until summer, we'll do unofficial visits with his top prospects in June and hope for a couple of phone calls in July. I really like the idea of getting a good head start on essays etc over the summer so that fall of senior year isn't so crazed...Thanks again.</p>
<p>Oh my gosh, yes, if you can get your kid to write the common app essays this summer, we will canonize you.</p>
<p>I agree whit Opie, the post is confusing a bit. NCAA specifies when you can contact or be contacted to coaches for DIV 1 Sports. My D could not do anything until July 1 after her Jr year by NCAA decree. Other contact is limited prior to that time, then limited after that. Perhaps it is a different timing for crew, but seemed to me that was lumped into other sports (not football, basketball, etc.).</p>
<p>So if you have not check NCAA clearing you need to do that immediately. Some HS coaches are not that up on stuff.</p>
<p>Having said that, my D had a similar pattern of interest and has gotten in or received likely letters from most at this time. Given she had the profile for a top school (apart from athletics) we went with and all but one or two -- depending on how you count -- that were Ivy or Ivy group. It paid off. However, what did it was solid atheltics and outstanding academics. For safety school we looked at top public institutions with rolling admissions. That takes the pressure off early once you are accepted. Regarding Div 2 or Div 3 slow response. It is possible it may be due to the academic quality of the your S. D was ignored by those sorts of schools because (we eventually found out) her profile was much higher than their normal student body. Hence, why would you come here? (A couple of coaches actually said that in casual conversations). Perhaps that is what is going on with your son.</p>
<p>But it concerns me regarding the NCAA thing.</p>
<p>Well, the OP's son's stats/projected stats are certainly not higher than the normal student body at Amherst/Williams, etc. Not to say those stats aren't in range, but it's not as though, absent the rowing, that student or any student is an easy in.</p>
<p>It's interesting to read that coaches at Pomona have no leverage with admissions. I didn't know that. My son had some continuing contact with the Pomona coach in his sport. He seemed to be a really great guy, and was very interested in my son coming there. He never did say anything about having any sway with admissions, but it never occurred to me he wouldn't have at least a little for an otherwise qualified applicant. My son loved Pomona to bits -- we visited there 3 times, and it's not local for us! -- he did the admissions interview and everything. It turned out that he applied ED elsewhere and was accepted, so he never did end up applying to Pomona, but the reason he looked elsewhere at all was in good part due to wanting a more competitive program.</p>
<p>In visits to other prestigious D3 schools most of the coaches all managed to say in some off-hand elliptical kind of way that they can "sometimes be a small help" in the admisssion process. I never knew what to make of such comments since they were so vague and non-specific. I advised my son to not count on it, in any case.</p>
<p>I read that in NESCAC, there are coach "tips" and another catagory too. The article I read called them "protects", but I've heard other terms too. That's where if an applicant is academically competitive with non-athletes who would be accepted, the coach can "protect" their application through the admissions process. Tips, on the other hand, are limited in number by mutual agreement between the schools in the conference, and are for tipping in students who otherwise wouldn't be academically qualified. Most of the tips go for football and hockey, or else the schools just wouldn't be able to float competitive teams at all. The number of "protects" is not pre-determined and policy varies from school to school. Some schools don't cap coaches on the number of protects at all. I don't know if it's exactly true, but I've heard that Williams is one where coaches get an unlimited number of protects. Hence their dominance in NESCAC.</p>
<p>I'm sure it's even more subtle and complex, though, in D1. Good luck all athletes and parents! :)</p>
<p>In fact, Williams does not dominate NESCAC sports. I don't believe that they have a single male team championship this year.</p>
<p>If your kid is getting recruited for a D3 sport, make sure he/she isn't getting her ego blown up. All this talk about recruiting and slots and scholarships and NCAA regulations is kind of concerning. This isn't D1! Academics always needs to be first, always. ALWAYS. Chances are your sons and daughters are probably NOT great athletes, no matter what coaches tell you as they try to woo your kid: that's just reality! They are students, and students first! </p>
<p>I know you are probably rolling your eyes, but I'm saying this as someone who went through it all. I play football at a D3 school, and I will tell you straight up- there is almost no discernible difference between the people who "walk on" and the people who are "recruited". Maybe the talent level is just low, I'm not sure. As someone who got into college and then decided to join the team, I have come to realize that the recruiting process at lots of D3 schools is very shoddy and haphazard. Coaches usually don't have the budget or time to go watch people play. They just take a look at game film, and basically make a decision, yeah we want him or no we don't. So you're going to find a number of supposedly "recruited" athletes that just are not very good, but slip through the cracks: no one actually really knows if the recruit can actually play when they come for their overnights stays. In fact, there were quite a few "recruited" football players when I was a freshman who were cut after preseason camp. And that is the worst. Coaches tell people BS sometimes. They pretty much tell everyone "you'd be an immediate impact on our team, I can see you getting lots of playing time, etc." so there will be high turnout for the first day of camp. They don't give a **** if you actually make the cut or not... it's not like you're under scholarship. And that's the worst: now you're stuck, with no sports at all, in an extremely demanding, rigorous school that is way above your academic level.</p>
<p>Make sure that doesn't happen to your kid. This isn't meant to be raining on everyone's parade. I understand coming out of high school how it good it feels to be that star player on your team, whatever. I played quite a lot this year and even started a few games, but I'd be foolish to not realize that sports aren't going to carry you very far here. What is going to, however, is your work in the classrooms and library. You need to make sure your son/daughter understands, and not like "yeah, whatever", but that they really truly realize that you're going to school to learn, to take classes, and to pursue academic interests. D3 sports are not big time, people come and go, a lot of people quit the team each year, a lot of people join. Sports is NOT what they are there for. If you find yourself saying, "I'm going to [D3 school] to play [your sport]", then you're looking at it from the wrong perspective!</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure no one has even suggested such a thing.</p>
<p>Here is a link to use re NCAA recruiting.
<a href="http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/cbsa/2007-08/2007-08_cbsa.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/cbsa/2007-08/2007-08_cbsa.pdf</a></p>
<p>In the sport my daughters play most of the large D1 programs get their top prospects to verbal well before their senior year. Yes, contact is limited but believe me there is contact before July. Kids can make unofficial campus visits don't forget. Most of the big D1 schools are already looking at 2008 recruits. Text messaging will go away after June this year as it is too hard to monitor. Check any of the major high school sport site/blogs and you will see how many have already comitted. A trickle down then occurs. Major D1 first, smaller D1, D2 and then D3 last.</p>
<p>Recruiting does happen at selective D3 schools. Some coaches can influence the decision and academic money does go to average students who are good athletes . All depends on the school and what the needs are. Seen it and experienced it.</p>
<p>Hi NorthMinnesota,</p>
<p>Great information. The only thing I hear discrepency about is TIMING. I think many of us (parents that is) who have gone through this are like the parable of the blind men exploring different parts of the elephant and describing only the small part in front of them. My D's sport is non-revenue producing, and not as "popular" as football or women's soccer, for example. The timeline for us seems to be later in the Junior year and into the Senior year. On the other hand, soccer players we know seem to have big plans by the beginning of Junior year. </p>
<p>Shedding some light on the timelines for these various sports would great. I know a number of talented track kids who were still shopping good D1 schools into April of their senior year.</p>
<p>Our experience is similar to yours, riverrunner.</p>
<p>Our son was a recruited athlete at Pomona in a non-revenue, non-helmet sport. We found the following articles interesting and helpful. He was only interested in DIII schools so our experience was more low key. He made all initial contacts before the end of his junior year. The coach attention varied and was not relative to their interest as has been said before. The influence the coaches had varied to a great degree. To the Pomona coach's credit, he did not make any promises, but did email for a grade report, transcript and resume when he was headed for an appointment with admissions. Our son's stats were within the previously accepted range but not above. They ask students to submit athletic, music and science supplements so we assumed they would take those activities into consideration. </p>
<p>Good luck to all those entering the process. It makes for an exciting and stressful September and October, but hopefully a great outcome. </p>
<p>Inside</a> the Pomona Athletics Admission Process - The Student Life
Inside</a> the Pomona Athletics Admission Process: Part 2 - The Student Life
Inside</a> the Pomona Athletics Admission Process: Part 3 - The Student Life</p>
<p>Having benefitted greatly from insights posted on this site, here are a few additional thoughts:</p>
<p>--Distance running and crew ARE a bit different from football, soccer, etc. (which lock up early). Agree with RiverRunner -- late spring and early fall are critical for track and possibly crew.
--Some crew coaches (like at Yale), I'm told, are very up front about where you rank on their recruit list, academically and athletically. Ivies really do care about crew -- and ERG times.
--Coaches love ED or EA because it winnows the field of recruits. They may get a second shot in the regular pool, but most (but not all) top recruits will be snapped up -- and have verbally committed by Dec. Frankly, ED enhances chances for acceptance, particularly for athletes
--Athletes are allowed five official paid visits to D-1 schools. But who has time for that, given intense academis and sport schedules? My D limited visits to three schools (with the possibility of adding two) to minimize stress. Unless you're an exceptionally strong candidate, it may be wise to plan more, then scale back if you don't find the right fit. In terms of schedules, crew may be easier, given the spring racing season.
--Most running and crew recruits have very strong academics, but coaches at D-3 schools like Williams, Middlebury and Wesleyan do have pull. Williams certainly has strong athletic programs, at least in cross country and xc skiing.</p>
<p>Now that I know canonization is on the table, riverrunner, I am going to be ALL over those common app essays..</p>
<p>Thanks Ninos. That's a terrific summary. This has been amazingly educational and I am grateful to all who have added their knowledge and experience to the discussion.</p>