<p>How I wish someone had spearheaded this thread 12 months ago.</p>
<p>Yes, timing is important depending on the sport! Sorry I didn't mention that before. It is earlier for soccer because very little recruiting is done from HS seasons but rather club teams. When exactly is the crew season...spring or fall??? Can you tell we don't have it in the schools around here??? Heck, they're just getting Lacrosse sanctioned as a varsity sport! :)</p>
<p>I agree with ninos...many coaches throw a wide net to catch a few athletes. Make sure you find a school where you want to be!</p>
<p>The crew season is in the spring. From what I understand, where rivers and lakes freeze, high school and club teams often do not practice during the winter (for obvious reasons!). In warm weather spots, however, while the main racing season is in the spring, the high school and club teams practice and row from September to May. My S's club has a few regattas (aka races) in the fall, but the racing gets serious right about now.</p>
<p>The other suggestion that I think bears repeating is that you and your son shouldn't hesitate to ask the coaches the hard questions, e.g. where do I stand on your list of recruits, how much influence do you have in the admissions process, etc.? We were given that advice when our son was entering the process and it helped tremendously. When he was being recruited by some schools that we thought might be a reach academically (at least if he wasn't an athlete) we were honest about those concerns and found that coaches were honest with us in response. I think it's natural to try to discern patterns across schools (e.g. DI vs. DIII schools) in terms of how they handle the process or the amount of "pull" coaches have, but there are also great differences across schools within each of those groups and certainly great differences across different sports within the same school. Thus, it was most helpful for us just to ask the coaches directly, how interested they were and how likely they thought his admission was. I would also mention that once you're "in the shoot" and schools are serious about firming up their rosters, the process can move very quickly. The more information you can obtain to help clarify your son's preferences early in the process (and the more progress he can make on applications), the more comfortable you'll be in knowing how to respond to a coach's interest and perhaps pressure on your son to commit. Good luck!</p>
<p>excellent statement, runners2, and matches our experience very well. I think visiting coaches and creating a relationship based on a face-to-face conversation is important. My D's high school coach advised us to "trust our gut" about this conversation, and I agree. It's tempting to leave your child alone in the room with the coach for the first meeting, but I found my experience reading adults was pretty darned valuable, and on target. My D was discerning, but needed her impressions confirmed, help recalling details of the conversation, and understanding the subtext.</p>
<p>This is such helpful advice, Runners2 and riverrunner. I would have been temped to really back off at the initial visiting stage but I can see that might not be the way to go. </p>
<p>Runners2, at what point in the process did you as those "hard questions"? During the official visits? After? And thanks very much for giving me a feel of how fast it all can go. Right now, when October feels soooo far away, it feels like tons of time, but I can see the time collapsing as one gets closer to the end of the "shoot". Also, if you're comfortable answering, i'd love to know if your S go the ED route or RD?</p>
<p>riverrunner, I think "trust our gut" sounds like great advice in this - and most other - situations! So long as we ask outright about the level of support he is likely to get too...</p>
<p>3Xboys - I'll PM more specifics about our son's experience</p>
<p>I think I can explain some of the confusion with NCAA and crew. Rowing is listed as an NCAA sport, but it's WOMEN's rowing, not men's. Men's rowing is overseen by the Intercollegiate Rowing Association (IRA). In addition to IRA regulations, there are also Ivy League regulations which place strict moratoriums on official practices for Ivy League teams to ensure that their main focus is academics. We often forget that the Ivy League is simply an athletic conference like the PAC-10.</p>
<p>That said, since most of the other sports in a college are NCAA regulated, the college may treat all prospective athletes as if they were NCAA bound. For example my S, and Ivy league rower, received a form letter (Dear prospective student athlete) from his college in June before his freshman year which told him to register through the NCAA clearing house.</p>
<p>To add to the confusion there is a battle brewing between west coast and east coast crew teams. The west coast teams want men's rowing to become an NCAA sport and the east coast teams want to be able to preserve their old traditions which the NCAA which would prohibit. Some west coast teams go as far as to act as if they are an NCAA sport during the regular season because they participate in so few events overseen by the IRA. A few years ago the Stanford coach boycotted the IRA championships because they would not allow his best rower, who was a freshman, to row in the varsity boat. The IRA does not allow freshman to row in varsity boats, but the NCAA does.</p>
<p>If anyone else has any insight chime in because I don't know all the details. I would suspect that any men's crew coach who talked about NCAA rules would have been from a West or Midwest team.</p>
<p>Cookiemom,
Almost every coach - from both East and West coast crews - who has contacted my son has mentioned the NCAA prohibition against more than one casual meeting before July 1. So while they may not be technically bound by NCAA rules, they certainly mention them in their emails and seem intent on abiding by them. That said, maybe they do that for their own protection!</p>
<p>Hmmm.............interesting. </p>
<p>The other thing I've learned that would be of interest to all athletes is that Stanford has higher academic standards for recruited athletes than any other school. Some athletes who are being recruited by Harvard don't make the cut to be recruited to Stanford.</p>
<p>I have heard this too, cookiemom. It makes me very proud of my alma mater!</p>
<p>Comments by Runners2 are right on. A few more thoughts:</p>
<p>--"Hard questions" can be asked at any point but are best answered once SATs and junior year grades are in, though coaches may have an idea beforehand. I feel a personal meeting with the coach is better before the official visit. That way you have a much better sense of the place and the program. By the time of the official visit, there's so much for the student-athlete to take in (going to classes, meeting teammates and recruits, dinners, etc.). It's a confusing -- and exhausting -- process. In retrospect, the one school where my D didn't meet with the coach beforehand was at a disadvantage. Official visits are extremely informative, but they can be misleading, since perceptions may be influenced by factors that aren't necessarily representative of the school (e.g., a lackluster roommate, parties).</p>
<p>--Hard questions can be asked later as well (and may need to be, especially late in the game when coaches are scrambling). For us, this was preempted because my D made her choice early (technically before the ED and EA deadlines). </p>
<p>--We had similar reservations about horning in on meetings with the coach, but adult perspective is very helpful. REcommend at least a phone conversation by parent. (That helped in our case, at least.)</p>
<p>--The more discussions your son has with coach, etc., the better equipped he'll be to ascertain team chemistry, personal fit, etc. And as much as academics should be paramount, I wouldn't underestimate the importance of the coach and team. Crew jocks spend A LOT of time with their peers -- in the tanks and on the river.</p>
<p>--For perspective, our D's priority list for top 5 choices changed from April to October, though she ultimately chose one of her top two. My point is that this is a very fluid process and it makes sense to keep options open, while still being honest with coaches. I never thought it wold require so much diplomacy.</p>
<p>point on contact: I believe the student can make contact at any point . some coaches voicemail will actually say, "leave a message. If I do not know that you have not completed your junior year, I cannot return this call" . Having said that, in my D's team sport, many verbal agreements (let's all say this in unison one more time ... this does not equal acceptance) are reached during junior year, some as early as the fall. Coaches have a pretty good sense of a kid's academic standing based upon GPA / number of APs, etc. But in our experience at this IVY, no offer to be on recruitment list until SAT scores hit certain standard . I am not sure how much this varies by sport . In my D's situation, it was not fuzzy at all. Told get these scores (and obviously maintain high academic performance in school) , you will be one of the five kids we are allowed to push. While there are no guarantees, we believe you will be admitted. Also coaches want a completed application by September 1 (hello canonization !!)</p>
<p>Ninons: Great points. Thank you. I especially appreciate learning about the importance of unofficial visits, talking with the coach early in the process and asking the hard questions too. I think I might try to reframe it for my S and say that these are only hard questions if you are afraid that the answer might be something to the effect of "you're hanging onto the bottom of the list by your fingernails." The truth is, clear information is really useful to have and the earlier you find out the news - good or bad - the better off you are because you can adjust your plans accordingly. We talked the other day in terms (he loves military history so this might not work for anyone else's child!) of the recruiting process being akin to a military campaign. There are a series battles that need to be won (standardized test scores, grades, erg times) that all lead up to the big prize. </p>
<p>There is no doubt in my mind that his crew team will become the heart of his social circle, so I totally agree that the feel and the fit of coach and teammates is crucial. </p>
<p>Thanks for the insight re the fluidity. The "prize" can change over time and remembering that is a good lesson for them too - in patience, persistence, and keeping as many of your options as you can open until you want to close them.</p>
<p>I wish diplomacy were my strong suit!</p>
<p>nightsky, the glow from your halo is blinding! Were the coaches equally forthcoming about what GPA she had to hit in order to be in the top five? I wonder when in the process is a good time to ask coaches for this information? Since most of the coaches reference academic achievement in their emails, do you think an appropriate question would be something to the effect of, "can you give me some guidelines as to what you are looking for in terms of GPA and SAT scores?"? Or does that just invite the obvious, "the higher, the better" response? Any thoughts on that would be most appreciated.</p>
<p>Hi 3xboys,
My d made a "brag" sheet (can also be called Academic and Athletic Acheivement list). She started in during her junior year and updates it regularly.
It fits on one page. The top half is academics, including GPA, class rank, all test scores, and academic awards and ec's. Can be organized chronologically or thematically. No mention of athletics in this section.
The second half of the page is athletics and for her sport, starts with PR's.<br>
This is followed by notable performances, races, and leadership positions on teams.<br>
She sent this to coaches in January of her junior year, along with her transcript through fall of junior year. At that time she had only taken the PSAT.
She then sent the updated version of the brag sheet in June following her Junior year. By that time she had the SAT, more races, and another semester of grades.
In conversations with coaches it became very easy to ask if her scores and grades were high enough. My sense was they were reluctant to say a global exact number for either test scores or GPA, but were much more willing to comment qualitatively on HER scores and transcript.<br>
We had the same experience as Nightsky: Ivy coaches stated that some of their recruits could only continue to be recruited/admitted if they improved their SAT scores, but that she was not in that category. I'm going to guess that each kid is unique because the coach must also balance the value of the athlete with the scores/GPA piece. The necessary score may be different depending on what you bring to the team and which recruiting position on the coach's list you hold. If you are number one, those scores may be different than number 5. So yes, it's also fluid, because some recruits will drop off coach's list as those kids choose other schools. It's a moving target. The better your academic picture, the less this will matter.</p>
<p>I would agree that it's probably more useful to send the coaches your son's brag sheet than to try to ask them what they're looking for in terms of GPA and test scores. In our son's experience the coaches usually took his stats to their admissions office or to their liason with that office to get an initial read. Easier for them to give you feedback on your son's stats than to give you generalities that differ based on the high school opportunities your child has had. Would echo what riverrunner said about the scores being different for each kid. For example, in several instances our son was told he was the "top academic recruit" for a specific school. So in his case, slightly lesser athletic abilities combined with strong academics might be enough to help him with admissions while for another kids, standout athletic ability might offset slightly lower academic credentials. Not likely the same equation for each kid.</p>
<p>I'm assuming your brag sheet is what coaches and recruits would call a player profile! ;) Definitely organize a profile. They can be attached to emails and sent to coaches upon contact and also you should have some printed. In soccer we pass these out to coaching staff on the sidelines of showcase games or place them at tables that are set up in tents/buildings at the fields just for this purpose.</p>
<p>I've never heard the term "player profile" but we're in a different sport (the kids aren't "players"!) It's been fascinating to see just how much I don't know, having just been through this. Yikes. Keep on talking, all.</p>
<p>Also, the brag sheet had information that my d would never want put out on a public table: SAT scores, etc! I mean, she's proud of hers, but hasn't ever shared them unless it seemed absolutely necessary. I had no idea these were openly displayed and shared in the world of soccer.</p>
<p>In crew, its ERG times, ERG times, ERG times. Princeton told my friend who had borderline SATs not to worry about retaking SATs but rather to focus on improving ERG times. Friend was offered spots at Princeton, Yale and Dartmouth and several big D-1s. As far as I know, recruiting timetable pretty much follows most other sports--likely letters go out in early fall. </p>
<p>Top D-3 (NESCAC for example) coaches definitely have pull if they want you. Seem to be a little more laid back in recruiting until D-1 spots are sorted out.</p>
<p>Hope all this wasn't already covered, thread just getting too long to read</p>