Many Mids are upset by changes

<p>Profmom2, having been at the last two Herndon Climbs, your statement is incorrect. There are cadre and other upperclass in attendance, but the entire Brigade was most certainly not there. It's not even logistically possible.</p>

<p>FTA, gee. Wonder what "FTA" stands for?</p>

<p>Finally, moms in general, I'm sure YOUR midshipman is wonderful. I'm sure you raised your son/daughter to be nice, take turns, look both ways before crossing the street, and share. But there are 4,400-or-so people in the Brigade, and I can guarantee you that not everyone quite grasped the Golden Rule. It's those statistically few bad apples who give the rest a bad name.</p>

<p>Well that if funny as I am looking at my photographs and the many of the upperclass and cadre were most certainly at Herndon. So I stand corrected on the "ENTIRE BRIGADE" Remember that those who had summer training block 0 are not in attendance for Plebe week or Commissioning Week anyway. There were many of the upperclass that were at Herndon, and certainly at Alumni Hall as the entire upper deck seating was reserved for the Brigade in attendance on the yard. Guess it is "He said she said" and according to this site us Moms have no idea what were are talking about. Guess my pictures are lying.</p>

<p>"Anyone remember the fallout of the midshipmen sleeping during Forrestal Lectures? Now THAT was a lesson in leadership, "or the lack thereof." Navy1974</p>

<p>The mids were sleeping before bush's "Plan for Victory" propaganda speech, not a Forrestal lecture. The smart ones put their covers over their faces though. Amazing kids! :)</p>

<p>... and got this great link to the (now) infamous AP photo:</p>

<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/in_pictures_enl_1133369715/img/1.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/in_pictures_enl_1133369715/img/1.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>just injecting a bit of levity</p>

<p>Did you people miss this?</p>

<p>"Answers to some discussed topics. </p>

<hr>

<p>Topic: Food Service in King Hall Our focus is better aligning the Naval Academy with the Fleet, where our midshipmen will soon serve as leaders. Food service and quality is important in the Navy and Marine Corps. Eating together on messdecks, wardrooms and in ready rooms helps officers, Sailors and Marines develop and maintain the relationships and unit cohesiveness so important to units in the Fleet. This is why the Superintendent and Naval Academy leadership are committed to ensuring that the Brigade receives the best food service available. Some food distribution issues have come to our attention over the past week and we are aggressively working to correct them. Feeding more than 4000 people at a single sitting is a significant and complex evolution. It has been well over 10 years since the Naval Academy has required all midshipmen to attend 15 mandatory meals per week. To address these issues, we’re now obtaining instant feedback from midshipmen regarding the quality of food and using their suggestions to improve our level of service. We are encouraging midshipmen - particularly first class midshipmen as leaders - to report problems to our Food Service Team so they can correct issues as they arise. We’ve also developed a revised menu which will be implemented in early September. The menu changes reflect our goal of providing midshipmen with the proper diet to support both academic and athletic goals and to educate and expose midshipmen to foods that are part of a healthy, well-balanced lifestyle. </p>

<p>Topic: Use of “Beat Army” At a recent official dinner, during which our second-class midshipmen committed themselves to the service of our country, we did not say ”Beat Army” after the singing of Navy Blue and Gold. With our nation at war, and out of respect for the Soldiers engaged in combat, we appropriately refrained from the use of ”Beat Army”. On the athletic field and during Pep Rallies or other “spirit of competition” events, we will continue to say ”Beat Army” as loud as we possibly can. </p>

<p>Topic: Revised Liberty Policy The Superintendent and Academy leadership want midshipmen to remain focused on their moral, mental, and physical development and want fewer distractions and fewer excused absences from important developmental events, like study hour. Any activity that doesn’t fully support this development is considered secondary, optional, and conditional. While most midshipmen will still have weekend liberty, we are limiting weekday liberty to ensure they observe mandatory study hour and to promote increased accountability. First Class Midshipmen may have an opportunity, later in the semester, to earn some weeknight liberty for outstanding performance. </p>

<p>Topic: Revised travel by midshipmen to away football games The decision to limit away football game travel by the Brigade is intended to ensure midshipmen remain focused on moral, mental, and physical development. All other activity is secondary, optional, and conditional. To this end, the Superintendent intends to remove distractions and guide development. Upperclass midshipmen in a liberty status may attend away football games on a voluntary basis. Because the Temple, Rutgers, and Pittsburgh away games occur during times where travel would result in missed classes or conflict with mandatory study hours, and because of the distance for the November game against North Texas, Brigade attendance to those games will be limited to eligible Midshipmen in liberty status. The Naval Academy plans to send a large contingent of Midshipmen to South Bend, Ind., for the Notre Dame game in November, and the entire brigade will be present for the Army-Navy game in Baltimore in December. </p>

<p>Topic: Support of Athletics/Football The Superintendent is very pleased with the Naval Academy athletic program. It remains a vital element of the Academy’s mission of moral, mental and physical development of midshipmen. The Navy Football team and Coach Johnson will continue to receive strong support from the Superintendent, the staff and faculty, and the Brigade of Midshipmen. The Superintendent and members of his Senior Leadership Team, as well as select members of the Brigade will attend away football games. </p>

<p>Topic: Reviewing status of Extra Curricular Activities The Superintendent’s intent is to ensure midshipmen remain focused on moral, mental, and physical development. All other activity is secondary, optional, and conditional. The Superintendent intends to remove distractions and guide development. To this end, the Academy is currently reviewing all extracurricular activities.</p>

<p>Topic: Wearing of Khaki uniforms Midshipmen first class are wearing Khaki uniforms to class in lieu of the working blue uniforms worn by other midshipmen. This is to emphasize better alignment with the Fleet, and to more clearly distinguish first class midshipmen as leaders in the Brigade. Finally, the wearing of Khakis serves a reminder that these midshipmen will soon be joining the fleet; a fleet at war.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usna.edu"&gt;www.usna.edu&lt;/a&gt;"&lt;/p>

<p>Reading this thread as an "outsider", this post nails it.</p>

<p>^^^^see page 5 of this thread</p>

<p>The only happy mids I've spoken with recently are those participating in exchange programs at other SAs. Did anyone see the political cartoon, "Will Serve My Country for Food" in the Capital Gazette?</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Nope, those were the immature smart a$$ ones. The smart ones realized that they were active duty military and that they were listening to their Commander-In-Chief, and no matter what their political persuasion, sat quietly and listened politely.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Profmom2, I never said anything about Brigade attendance in Alumni for the shoulder board event, I only referred specifically to Herndon. Couldn't say how much of the Brigade was in Alumni Hall. I wasn't there. I only speak to that of which I have firsthand knowledge. Not hearsay, not the edited/sugarcoated version "my mid tells me," just what I see for myself and can state with some verifiable factuality. And no, I'm not insinuating anything about anyone else, I'm just saying I referred to Herndon because that's what I saw. Didn't see Alumni Hall, can't say anything about Alumni Hall.</p></li>
<li><p>USNA09mom, yes, the mids most certainly DID sleep at the Forrestals. And threw paper airplanes while the guest speaker was on stage. One mid even brought a pillow. Ask your mids to tell you the story about the time the Brigade Commander tried to take the entire Brigade's liberty away for sleeping & misbehaving at the Forrestal lectures. Your mid doesn't tell you everything that happens here, and thankfully, not all of it makes the news.</p></li>
<li><p>Shogun, people see/hear/read what they want to see/hear/read.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>
[quote]
Nope, those were the immature smart a$$ ones. The smart ones realized that they were active duty military and that they were listening to their Commander-In-Chief, and no matter what their political persuasion, sat quietly and listened politely.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They were a few hours away from listening to their Commander and Chief. Because of the tightened security, some of the mids had to report to Alumni Hall before 5AM.</p>

<p>On the Herndon situation, I can confirm that most upperclass do not attend Herndon. Many even skip the recognition ceremony, which is supposed to be mandatory for the Brigade.</p>

<p>I should probably qualify my last statement that while the pre-bush picture was misleading, mids do sleep at forrestals all the time. Not the majority by any stretch, but it still does happen. As for the pillow event, although being an isolated incident, that was incredibly inappropriate.</p>

<p>The gouge on the infamous picture of the mids sleeping BEFORE their CIC spoke is this: They had to arrive several hours before the speech to get through security. They were not allowed to bring anything with them, including no school books. They obviously could not study nor workout. They just had to sit for a couple of hours and wait. So the smart mids used their time wisely and caught up on sleep in the good practice of making the best use of every moment of your day. The sleep positioned them for later in the day studying, working out, etc. The photographers took advantage of the photo op, practically the entire brigade sleeping, and got some pictures that were later coined as being "when Bush visited USNA." Of course few if any pics were taken or publised of their reaction to the actual speech when the mids were awake nor of the mids trying to get pictures with the president afterwards. Amazing how a picture and a byline can paint a picture that is totally not the true story. Just thought I would clear that up for anyone wondering about that picture</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, moms in general, I'm sure YOUR midshipman is wonderful.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>he has his moments.
there are also times he drives me absolutely nuts.
don't even get me started on the gf issue.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm sure you raised your son/daughter to be nice, take turns, look both ways before crossing the street, and share.

[/quote]

yes, in additional to several other things.
respect for parents.
respect for authority
respect for all
respect for self
compassion
humility
taking risk
following rules
moral behavior
and just as importantly, behavior that is also ethical
love of God
appreciation of country
gift of freedom
value of friends
gold of family
importance of team
when to speak up, when to be silent
knowledge and wherewithall to form an opinion and defend it
and the same to listen "attentively" to the opinion of others
self confidence
self esteem
value of education
value of goal setting
essential value of responsibility and accountability
walking the path of honor
demand for truth
uncompromising honesty
to turn the other cheek
to walk away, and to defend when necessary
value of knowledge</p>

<p>no doubt more.
some learned better than others
and still a work in progress.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But there are 4,400-or-so people in the Brigade, and I can guarantee you that not everyone quite grasped the Golden Rule. It's those statistically few bad apples who give the rest a bad name.

[/quote]

then address the few.
instead of punishing the many.
Study after study has shown that 90% of a managers time time is spent on the few bad apples, instead of the remaining 90% doing the right thing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"Anyone remember the fallout of the midshipmen sleeping during Forrestal Lectures? Now THAT was a lesson in leadership, "or the lack thereof." Navy1974

[/quote]
</p>

<p>yes. It was also later reported that the photo was taken hours before the president arrived, that companies had to report "hours" before his arrival for security purposes...some as early as 5am, and that the picture was "misleading." It was later "commented" on that the paper planes were signs of "acknowledgement and commaraderie" from those selecting "air" to one who "did air"..... and that the "president appreciated the acknowlegement." </p>

<p>As for sleeping through lectures..... I don't have enough fingers and toes to be able to "count" how many times that, despite my best effort, my head has "nodded off" .......lectures, meetings, forget movies.........not planned, but it happens... especially after one is running around and then must sit...... heck, I almost fell asleep driving home yesterday and had to stop for a Starbucks!!!!!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
On the Herndon situation, I can confirm that most upperclass do not attend Herndon. Many even skip the recognition ceremony, which is supposed to be mandatory for the Brigade.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>that may be true.
nevertheless- "lots" were at Herndon- and "more than lots" were at Alumni Hall.... the upper deck of alumni hall was well filled!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Did you people miss this?</p>

<p>"Answers to some discussed topics. </p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>shogun- did not miss it. Am wondering who stated it.<br>
Promised not to comment on the f**d anymore as it seems fixed.
Still looking for responsiblity and accountability to be addressed. Not seeing it.</p>

<p>Navy2010, the Navy doesn't work that way. Ask anyone who has been assigned to the 7th Fleet in the last few years. When a junior enlisted Marine commits a crime in Okinawa, or when sailors from the Kitty Hawk get in trouble in Yokosuka, the entire Fleet gets locked down. We have to take responsibilities for our peers and our subordinates, in addition to being personally accountable for our own actions.</p>

<p>And I was not referring to the President's visit. Other posts on that debacle are correct, in that the mids were forced to sit and wait for the CinC for more than two hours. I was specifically referring to Forrestal lectures, in which distinguished speakers complained bitterly afterwards about the rude and juvenile behavior of the audience. Perhaps only 10 mids threw paper airplanes. What about the ten mids who watched and did nothing to correct the behavior?</p>

<p>Finally, you will find the accountability you're looking for in Brad Olson's article today.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-md.ar.menu07sep07,0,367033.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-md.ar.menu07sep07,0,367033.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Specifically:</p>

<p>Capt. Margaret Klein, the commandant of midshipmen, took responsibility for the food problems and attributed it to 15 meals a week being mandatory instead of six and an effort aimed at reducing waste by cutting portions.</p>

<p>Often in the previous weeks, there was likely enough food on hand, she and another senior officer said, but midshipmen might have been overwhelmed by the changes and not thought to ask for it.</p>

<p>"Whose fault is it? Probably mine for not anticipating that all these changes, which were geared toward their development, were thrown at them simultaneously," she said. "And for underestimating the fact that they weren't used to portion control."</p>

<p>I am glad that someone has finally stepped up and taken responsibility, 3 weeks after the food debacle started. Let's move on beyond the food. What is more important will be the lack of Navy Midshipmen at the Rutger's game. Oh, the Supe will be there, leading by example. My experience in the fleet was that the sailors received tickets to sporting events and other activities before the officers. Has this process changed?</p>

<p>having been at the infamous CIC speech, i can assure you that no midshipmen were sleeping during his speech. USNA69, those sleeping were not smart asses, but simply mids that were woken up at 0430 to go through security when the speech did not begin until 1030. the cameramen were a little prompter than our president, and were waiting for him as well==>copious pictures of mids sleeping. i find it incongruous that an alumnus is ALWAYS so quick to think of us mids as lazy, unmotivated complainers. spare me.</p>

<p>^^^^^^^^^^^Sorry, Wheelah, I was simply continuing the downward spiral of a political comment made by usna09mom. She posted that mids were sleeping with their faces covered. I made the mistake of assuming that she knew what she was talking about. I think you will agree that the situation as she posted it was not very wise.</p>

<p>From Capt. Klein's good letter this day 02 Sept 2007 ...</p>

<p>
[quote]
...Finally, we are demanding Positive, Proactive, and Intrusive Leadership at all levels, critiquing each meal to ensure quality and quantity.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>2010, et al ... Can we all assume that Capt. Klein's invited "Intrusiveness" is extended soley to all levels of our Midshipmen? :confused:</p>

<p>Good. Now we can move on. :cool: </p>

<p>P.S. Anyone know the final bodycount at the Infirmary of malnourished Mids?</p>

<p>"The mids were sleeping before bush's "Plan for Victory" propaganda speech..." usna09mom</p>

<p>navymom08 and wheelah44 added the details. usna69 has a bad habit of twisting my posts to suit his agenda, e.g., Jewish and Muslim mids morphed into Arabs...and the ever present attack on one's character. Try to focus on the issues.</p>

<p>The Brigade had a Forrestal lecture this past Wednesday night, according to the USNA website:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/forrestal.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/forrestal.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As for them sleeping - </p>

<p>While I was at college, a zillion years ago, I once fell asleep about 3 minutes into a lecure by George F Kennan, a famous historian/philosopher and Cold War expert. I had been eagerly anticipating hearing his speech - which, unfortunately, occurred during midterm week. After less than 15 hours' rest in the previous week, in a dim and warm auditorium, I succumbed to sleep. I woke up when the audience was applauding the end of the speech and was very sorry afterwards. </p>

<p>I would imagine that the mids experience weeks much worse than mine, and I can easily forgive an unintentional drowsy hour in a padded chair in Alumni Hall.</p>

<p>Taking a pillow along, however, is beyond the pale and smells of smart-assedness. Although - I have looked at the list of previous lecturers on the Forrestal site above, and have heard several of them give speeches. One or two of these Forrestal lecturers have rhetorical styles that are quite..... soporific.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We have to take responsibilities for our peers and our subordinates, in addition to being personally accountable for our own actions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Appropriate and what I would expect and hope was the guiding principle for the conduct of Naval personnel.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, you will find the accountability you're looking for in Brad Olson's article today.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I opened this up and read it twice, hoping that I would find precisely what was represented as the contents. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Capt. Margaret Klein, the commandant of midshipmen, took responsibility for the food problems and attributed it to 15 meals a week being mandatory instead of six and an effort aimed at reducing waste by cutting portions

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Fine, so there you have it, someone stepping up to the plate (sorry) and assuming responsibility…well sorta…unfortunately and with deference to Capt. Klein and the assumption she was quoted correctly, she did not stop talking after "Whose fault is it? “Probably mine for not anticipating that all these changes”…. And just leave it there regardless of whether the fault was hers entirely, and I sincerely doubt it was. </p>

<p>How are Mids supposed to interpret “Often in the previous weeks, there was likely enough food on hand, she and another senior officer said, but midshipmen might have been overwhelmed by the changes and not thought to ask for it.” So are we to understand there was plenty more moldy bread where the first batch came from, but you Mids weren’t bright or motivated enough to go and find it during the 20 leisurely minutes they have to eat??</p>

<p>Or …"And for underestimating the fact that they weren't used to portion control." What exactly does that mean given what allegedly unfolded, 8 pieces of chicken for a 12 man table?? The Mids were gorging themselves without concern for their peers??? When in reality upperclassmen were passing up food in order for others to have enough. </p>

<p>What better statement could you make about the maturity and willingness of the leadership of the brigade to assume some direct responsibility in this situation? Instead of hearing about that, about Mids passing up food so others could eat, we and the public at large are treated to; “they weren’t used to portion control”. How is someone on the outside or even those on the inside supposed to interpret that in any way but; “to some degree they brought this situation on themselves”??? “They just ate too much and used up all the food we had”….</p>

<p>When it comes to the press; the best and safest course of action is to say as little as possible without QUALIFICATIONS, so that it cannot be misinterpreted or spun, at least without some real effort.</p>