<p>Wis75 -I have no doubt that the accusations do not involve all the members of the band. However I would have to believe that it is more than a few. Not to allow your band to play at a home football game is a pretty big thing.<br>
Strict was probably the wrong word to use. I think I should have said that the band directors have very high expectations for performance, work habits, behavior, etc. I don't think they are strict in the sense that you are referring to. I think the band members at Tennessee are very much treated like adults. It has been my experience that students usually rise or fall to the level of the expectations.
I have no doubt that Wisconsin is a much more liberal campus. I have been to both and I agree. However as an educator I have to disagree with respect not making a band better. Respect plays a large part of a person's performance in almost anything. If someone doesn't respect their teacher, leader, director, boss, etc., they are not going to perform at their best. It also involves having respect for what you represent and who you are.
Certainly Wisconsin's band is not the first to run into trouble. For years University of Virginia only had a pep band and it was suspended after getting into some trouble. I hope the University of Wisconsin's band is able to fix the problems and perform. I think the band is a great thing for any college student.</p>
<p>My mind does not comprehend hazing. Instead of being welcoming and helpful to newcomers, the vetarans are cruel and want the newcomers to be humiliated. What kind of human beings behave that way?</p>
<p>Some form of hazing is very common in many walks of life. It's part of forming a bond with a group.<br>
I was actually in Madison this weekend at a large (600 or so) meeting for alumni and the new Chancellor announced the suspension before it even made the news. It got very quiet. Many I spoke with later supported the suspension as the U had to draw a harsh line on this type of activity and send a strong message ( I agree). The band director is pretty old now and he might have lost some control. The behavior was I heard was basically around pressuring newer members to do shots/drinks and engage in some sexually suggestive antics such as having females kiss each other and read questionable poems/limericks. Bawdy but not off the charts.</p>
<p>The game was fine without the band. They just did what NFL teams do and piped in some loud rock tunes.</p>
<p>*Some form of hazing is very common in many walks of life. It's part of forming a bond with a group. *</p>
<p>I know it's common, but my mind can't comprehend it. Why would anyone be intentionally cruel to anyone else, particulary to someone who is new in the group?</p>
<p>it's sad enough that hazing is done in fraternities, but c'mon, hazing even in marching band???? dang :(</p>
<p>Georgia Tech's band had some mild hazing a couple years ago - nothing involving alcohol or sex - but the powers that be came down on it and made them change their practices so that all levels of band members participate, not just the RATS (freshmen). My son went through it as a freshman and was disappointed he was in the last class to undergo "dwarfing" in the same format as before - (has nothing to do with small people - relates to a restaurant called Dwarf House).</p>
<p>Isn't that the original chik-fil-A?</p>
<p>Like Missypie, I will never understand severe hazing where exploitation and humiliation are expected. Non-violent or exploitative practical jokes are fine, I guess (in the eye of the beholder type of thing). But physical intimidation etc. crosses the line. I've taught young Lake Jr. to never let anyone physically intimidate him or suffer humilation in an attempt to "just belong" or get along with the popular crowd. Most culprits in hazing are just bullies who hide behind the status of their positions in XYZ club or organization. Stand up to them and let them know to expect a punch in the nose (to defend against an assault) and they'll fold in a NYC minute. Also, the threat of a lawsuit typically will make the administration stand up straight.</p>
<p>Yes, Missiepie, the original Chick-fil-A was the Dwarf House. There are 2 of them in the Atl area-- the original one on the south side, and one up in the NW area north of town. They have table service with wait staff. By the way, there is another thread on the topic of UW's band in the Cafe-- they should probably be merged.</p>
<p>My H went to UW Madison. When I told him about the band suspension (I didn't mention any details to him), his response was "On Wisconsin".</p>
<p>When I was in college the Yale marching band got reprimanded for making rude formations on the field (I remember one that involved a girls skirt hemline going up and up.. and well, another shape was coming closer to it...)</p>
<p>After the reprimand, the formations the band made during halftime were a circle, a square and a triangle.</p>
<p>From this afternoon's CHE
[quote]
October 6, 2008
Band Director Files Sexual-Harassment Complaint Against Marching Band</p>
<p>A former band director at the University of California at Davis has filed a sexual-harassment complaint against members of the Cal Aggie Marching Band, citing several incidents of crude and unruly behavior during his first year as director, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.</p>
<p>The director, Tom Slabaugh, filed the complaint last May after failed attempts to bring order to the band, known to be loud and rowdy, created a hostile work environment, according to a memorandum obtained by the newspaper. During his year as the bands director, Mr. Slabaugh said he witnessed a string of ridiculous, disturbing, and offensive incidents, including a naked van, in whcih male and female band members stripped down to their underwear during road trips.</p>
<p>The memo says that the university would not back initial complaints from Mr. Slabaugh, and that a report to the campus police about a band member breaking a security gate ended up with no arrests and fueled animosity between the director and the band. After the police report, Mr. Slabaugh said, a band member directed obscene hand gestures at him and rammed into him during an encounter in a hallway. The director also received a crude Christmas card signed by the trombone players.</p>
<p>According to Lisa Brodkey, a university sexual-harassment officer, band members have now received sexual-harassment training, and obscene posters and items in the band room were removed. Mr. Slabaugh, a longtime band director who is working on his doctorate in musical arts from the University of Washington, left Davis on stress leave in September. David DeBolt
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i agree with you missiepie, I can't understand being that cruel to someone. I couldn't do it and wouldn't be able to part of a group that did. If that meant, not being in that fraternity of guys/gals, so be it.
My niece told me of some of the things that went on when she was in college, one of the reasons she shyed away from certain frats, groups. If it takes hazing to make a bond, something is wrong.</p>
<p>OK...so now it looks like Wis won't let the blue band (PSU) perform at the game this Saturday. Hmmm... </p>
<p>Badgers</a> may not let band perform - The Daily Collegian Online</p>
<p>This is not normal in my college marching band (yes, we usually drink on band trips, but nothing's really gotten out of hand in my 4 years of band). The only "hazing" we do is making first year members (new assistants included) sing the fight song in the cafeteria one day at lunch near the end of band camp.</p>
<p>Final resolution, for now. Not as bad as feared nor as clean as it should be.</p>
<p>I'm a new member in the "marching" band at my university, and we have no hazing. We feel very welcome in the band, and everyone's pretty friendly (and then we get the bonding experiences as the complaints come in for the objectionable content in our halftime shows).</p>
<p>tikimoof... keep fightin the good fight. My old band is in its 3rd year of scrambling.</p>
<p>is this the article where it says they made people do pushups who didn't know their music? I read that in another article, and that is certainly not hazing.</p>
<p>and some of you in this thread talking about innocent HS bands... you probably think the theater kids are innocent too. =/</p>
<p>As a freshman in a well-known university marching band, I can tell you that hazing is usually much worse than anyone suspects, and that strange code of silence keeps anyone from addressing the issue. Of course, not everyone is kept silent, but usually those students don’t return for the next season. </p>
<p>The best way to change the system is to survive it yourself, and then (those who haven’t decided hazing is a good idea) change the system once you reach a leadership position. I know that’s my plan. It takes time to change such ‘traditions’ (that’s their excuse :-P). </p>
<p>~Phoenixtears</p>
<p>Everyone please note that up until post #37 the comments are all one year old at least- not sure why someone chose to revive this thread with their first post.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My guess is becaue phoenixtears is being hazed and can’t talk about it anywhere else because of the code of silence.</p>
<p>I don’t know what happened in the Wisconsin band. (I can imagine though, having seen American Pie: Band Camp on cable one night). For all I know the punishment fit the crime. </p>
<p>It is typical on sports teams to put the first year players through some sort of hazing/initiation ritual intended to promote bonding. (Shared experiences pull kids together.)</p>
<p>Most people, when they hear hazing think about the awful things they’ve read in the paper about alcohol poisioning or seen in movies like Animal House.</p>
<p>But most hazing is pretty innocent. Having the rookies pick the balls up after practice or carry equipment back to the locker room is very typical. Does anyone have a problem with that? </p>
<p>Having to wear something stupid in public is also not unusual. Pictures of the NY Yankees rookies as Wizard of OZ charaters were all over the internet last year. Trust me the guy (Ian Kennedy?) dressed as Dorothy looked pretty embarassed. One of my kid’s soccer teams had animal costumes the kids had to wear to school one day. Again pretty innocuous. </p>
<p>In my own experience, I had to wear a dress to the dining hall for one team and then stand up and sing the school song. For another team I had to run from Harvard Square to MIT with my helmet on, but shirtless and with my cup on outside my shorts. The key here of course is that no one had to do it alone–no one was singled out. All the rookies did it together. </p>
<p>Speaking up in favor of hazing is a losing battle of course–it is banned everywhere pretty much and even the sort of mild stuff I describe above is forbidden. In my view its because our society has lost common sense–of course it is totally unacceptable to permit hazing activities that threaten kids’ lives or are unacceptably cruel or sexual in any significant way. But instead of permitting rational people to make sensible judgments about where the line is we just say it’s all bad. </p>
<p>Sorry about the rant, although I feel better.</p>