Marijuana and School

Pre-College Issues High School Life
1

<p>Recently a lot of threads have been popping up with people asserting various claims about weed that are very strange to me. However, the most prevalent, and the one that would most likely be debated on CC, was the effect of weed in schools, and whether people should report kids who do.</p>

<p>First off, many people seem to think that other people smoking weed affects THEIR performance. Some of the threads I've read have had people advocating reporting someone for smelling like weed, when, admittedly, some of the posters have never even SMOKED weed. What if you are reporting a kid who just had a black and mild?</p>

<p>Second, a lot of people seem to believe thata kid who is stoned can't learn. I know a kid who took the SATs baked and got a 22something (80 I believe). Ive scored high on many tests and never acted ridiculous in school (giggling, bugging out, etc). Most people never even KNOW I'm high, and I find it HILARIOUS when people talk about their disdain of smokers WITH ME during the day. Then they are astounded when they find out I smoke (<em>gasp</em> "You're grades are going to go down [yes, like they should have the past 3 years /sarcasm]"). </p>

<p>My question is twofold, why do people:</p>

<p>A. Seem to think it is their responsibility or duty to report someone who smokes? Unless they are ashing on your face or smoking near you, what good would that do? Teach them a lesson that will probably result in far worse consequences then if you left them alone.</p>

<p>B. Why do people assume that stoners are automatically stupid. Moreover, all the examples of high scorers on SATs/honors classes/leadership positions are all called exceptions, yet I know far more intelligent stoners then I do stupid ones.</p>

<p>Discuss.</p>

2

<p>Meh. Lot of people smoke weed. Smart and dumb. It's just prevalent. Some people may be exposed to dumb stoners, others a mix or smart. Weed in my school gravitates to dumb kids, but I knew smokers in my summer program at Columbia who were congressional interns, mock trial champions, etc. It's just how it is. </p>

<p>Just let pot be pot. I don't smoke, but others do. Let em. Not hurting when everyone's laughing in a locked room. Better than alcohol at least.</p>

3

<p>A) Because smoking weed is illegal, so a lot of people feel it's a moral responsibility to report it.</p>

<p>B) Because the vast majority of stoners are stupider and less motivated than a given population with similar characteristics (socioeconomic status, etc.) to compare to. Go ahead and contradict me on this one if you'd like, you'll be wrong. Furthermore, being stoned does mess with learning, just like alcohol. That's not to say you can't learn if you're stoned or drunk, but you'll always learn better if you aren't. It also doesn't mean that there aren't intelligent stoners, just that there are less of them, and they tend to be less motivated, since weed doesn't really kill your intelligence as much as your motivation.</p>

<p>I smoke, by the way, so don't give me any "you wouldn't say that if you'd tried it. " ;)</p>

4

<p>"stupider" I hope that was sarcasm...</p>

5

<p>I think pot is stupid......... a lot of smart kids do it tho to relieve stress and stuff.</p>

6

<p>
[QUOTE]
A) Because smoking weed is illegal, so a lot of people feel it's a moral responsibility to report it.</p>

<p>B) Because the vast majority of stoners are stupider and less motivated than a given population with similar characteristics (socioeconomic status, etc.) to compare to. Go ahead and contradict me on this one if you'd like, you'll be wrong. Furthermore, being stoned does mess with learning, just like alcohol. That's not to say you can't learn if you're stoned or drunk, but you'll always learn better if you aren't. It also doesn't mean that there aren't intelligent stoners, just that there are less of them, and they tend to be less motivated, since weed doesn't really kill your intelligence as much as your motivation.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>A. Black people sitting in the front of buses was also illegal. For a time alcohol was illegal. BOTH of those things were FAR worse than marijuana, which was outlawed on the basis of racism and idiocy (It makes white women love black men and mexicans into bloodthirsty murderers. Can you believe someone said this at a meeting at congress and everyone BELIEVED him? Harry Anslinger ladies and gentlemen, I hope the devil has a special spot waiting for him.) Nothing gets changed if people dont defy the government, which is why so many of the marijuana laws are changing as we speak, people are tired of spending billions in tax dollars. FORTY FOUR OR MORE percent of drug arrests are marijuana arrests. HOW ABOUT FUNDING OUR SCHOOLS (I know at least a dozen schools in about a 10 mile radius that need funding for books/computers/everything else besides having to deal with their students being arrested for pot), instead of wasting billions arresting people for a plant. What country do we live in where a man who rapes or robs someone can be released before someone who owned a plant? That's absurd.</p>

<p>B. Entirely untrue. Marijuana has NO affect on your personality, and the only time you should feel lazy or possibly unmotivated is when you are high. I hate this stupid excuse people who smoke give for being lazy or dumb. My friends and I were just talking about this, I know so many stoners who choose to use the "weed made me lazy/dumb/unsuccessful/etc". No, idiot, you did. If you believed that you wouldn't be smoking now. Duh?</p>

<p>Furthermore, if you can find medical proof how being stoned affects your learning, I will find at least 3 other journals disproving you, so be careful before making such absurd claims. I have never had a problem learning, debating, comprehending, or test taking stoned unless I was simply not paying attention. The worst you can say is that you might get a bit more easily distracted, but again this is an individual thing. Being high is mastering your mind so that you can control and enjoy your high, otherwise experienced smokers would still be having bad trips from simple tachycardia.</p>

7

<p>1of42: Your insinuation that it is somehow a 'moral' duty to report victimless crimes to the authorities is poorly thought-out and extremely irresponsible. Have you never heard the Golden Rule before? I don't smoke, rarely drink, and don't get high, but I don't feel obliged to take it upon myself to regulate other people's personal behavior. Whenever I feel differently (not often), I just think about how I would feel if somebody ratted me out on something like that. </p>

<p>Reporting stoners to the authorities is not the same as phoning the suicide hotline when somebody is at risk, or informing the police that a student plans to injure someone or bring a weapon into school. The fact that you apparently can't see this distinction is a real surprise to me.</p>

8

<p>Dumb people are the ones tha smoke when they want to to think that weed is legal when in fact it is illegal.</p>

9

<p>What the hell are you talking about? I got, "dumb people are the ones who smoke when they want to think that weed is legal when in fact it is illegal". How many people do you know that think weed is legal?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
1of42: Your insinuation that it is somehow a 'moral' duty to report victimless crimes to the authorities is poorly thought-out and extremely irresponsible. Have you never heard the Golden Rule before? I don't smoke, rarely drink, and don't get high, but I don't feel obliged to take it upon myself to regulate other people's personal behavior. Whenever I feel differently (not often), I just think about how I would feel if somebody ratted me out on something like tha

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Exactly, I know many extremely intelligent people that have had schools/DYFS/police get WAY to much into their lives when there was NO SIGNS of any negative impact on their life besides the fact that someone told that they smoked, then suddenly they were "at risk". For example, I know a girl who just left our school after dealing with some absurd nonsense in which they drug tested her (For saying she left school. What does that have to do with drugs first off), and she tested positive for weed. They wanted to suspend her and try to force her to enroll in some rehab thing although her grades were perfectly find and ALL the faculty and staff loved her. All the teachers knew it was pure BS, but things like this continue to happen because of Extremely racist and crazy laws. I find it insane that weed could even still be illegal considering the fact that it is blatantly on record that a doctor in the meeting before it was outlawed said that all of their studies proved no conclusive results that marijuana inhibited, affected, or altered the mind or body beyond the effects of the actual duration of the plant. This is when Anslinger went on his psychotic rant about "white women loving negros", "mexicans becoming bloodthirsty murderers", "turning our children into axe wielding killers (reefer madness anyone?)", and other ridiculous assertions like people robbing banks and pandemonium spreading through the streets, yet over 60 million Americans have tried or do smoke pot in their lives yet people aren't running around killing people.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the benefits are not only good, but recent studies in England (gotta find link later) actually find that MANY cells that had the potential to become tumorous were killed or stopped their cancerous growth in lab rats when a sufficient amount of THC (delta 9 tetrahydracannabanoids (right?)) was present. The very disease that people claim marijuana causes (which, I beg you to find ONE documented case in which a man had cancer from SOLELY smoke marijuana) could actually be the cure we've been looking for.</p>

10

<p>Sounds to me like hyakku is just trying to justify the fact that he/she smokes pot and no matter what anyone says nothing is going to change the fact that it is illegal....and it is also a mood altering drug. If it weren't....you wouldn't be smoking it. It is also a major depressant for some people and can make them depressed one minute and angry and obnoxious the next....which you sound like in most of your posts. Ever heard of "just say no"????? My cousin got busted when she was a sophomore because her bfriend had weed in her car.....his weed-her car.....she went down too. No college for her cause she has a criminal record.....ain't worth it.....just say no and go find some other way to make yourself feel good cause it's just a stage you're going through.</p>

11

<p>First of all... are you kidding, hyakku? Pot DOES alter your personality... it's called being HIGH.</p>

<p>Secondly, it also does affect your academic performance. Girl A used to be an incredibly dilligent, dedicated student. Last year, she started getting wasted and high every weekend, and literally transformed into the class idiot. She starts laughing for no reason at all in the middle of class, trips and falls on her face in the hall, and starts banging her head on desks when she doesn't understand something.</p>

<p>Thirdly, I don't care if someone smokes pot or not. It's not my business, and I'm friends with people who do smoke. I don't feel morally superior superior to smokers. I don't try to make them quit. But... I agree with Tarheelhopeful. Hyakku, I don't think that you really understand the effects of pot, and you're just trying to justify smoking it to yourself.</p>

12

<p>OK. I'm going to say this in bold, because apparently you people need it loud:</p>

<p>I never said I would report a pot smoker, nor did I say that pot should be illegal, nor did I say it was immoral. I merely gave the reason that most people give as to why they would report a stoner/why they think the drug is immoral. Stop reading things into my statements that aren't there, you look like idiots.</p>

<p>hyakku: If you read my post (which obviously you didn't because then you wouldn't have gone off about my statement about the law), you wouldn't noticed I said most stoners were on average less motivated. I didn't say that pot made them that way. In fact, realistically I think it's self-selection - generally, it is the less motivated people who start smoking. I hate having to qualify statements, but clearly that's not implying that every smoker is less motivated, or any of that.</p>

<p>Now, you claim that you can find journals regarding pot and learning. Post a few for us. It's a widely known fact that weed chanes brain function, and PET scans of smokers while high have shown learning differences. At least one study has shown that learning is negatively impacted. So show me your studies claiming it isn't. And not the ones that simply show no structural changes in long term smokers via MRI, I mean ones that show no negative impact on learning while high.</p>

<p>To summarize, kcarls and hyakku: Learn to read what I write, not what you think I'm writing. Stop reading things into my post that I don't say, and you won't look stupid. For the record, I would never report a smoker, I think all drugs should be legal, and I do smoke myself. Happy?</p>

13

<p>First 1of42, I wasn't responding to JUST you, I was getting those points out of the way before everyone else would come and repost the same thing.</p>

<p>Lesos:

[QUOTE]
First of all... are you kidding, hyakku? Pot DOES alter your personality... it's called being HIGH.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Read:

[QUOTE]
Entirely untrue. Marijuana has NO affect on your personality, and the only time you should feel lazy or possibly unmotivated is when you are high.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Secondly, it also does affect your academic performance. Girl A used to be an incredibly dilligent, dedicated student. Last year, she started getting wasted and high every weekend, and literally transformed into the class idiot. She starts laughing for no reason at all in the middle of class, trips and falls on her face in the hall, and starts banging her head on desks when she doesn't understand something.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Ummm, first off:</p>

<p>Alcohol is known to shrink the brain, kill brain cells, and have many other detrimental effects on your health.</p>

<p>Secondly, if she is high and drunk in school and can't function in that state of mind, than it's HER stupidity that's at fault, not any fault of a plant, drink, or drug.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Sounds to me like hyakku is just trying to justify the fact that he/she smokes pot and no matter what anyone says nothing is going to change the fact that it is illegal....and it is also a mood altering drug. If it weren't....you wouldn't be smoking it. It is also a major depressant for some people and can make them depressed one minute and angry and obnoxious the next....which you sound like in most of your posts. Ever heard of "just say no"????? My cousin got busted when she was a sophomore because her bfriend had weed in her car.....his weed-her car.....she went down too. No college for her cause she has a criminal record.....ain't worth it.....just say no and go find some other way to make yourself feel good cause it's just a stage you're going through

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>First off, people not being able to handle smoking causes the problems of "bad trips". Truth be told, there are no such things as "Bad trips" on weed, just extreme paranoia. A bad trip is stripping naked and running in the streets doing crazy stuff (as in many cases of people having REAL bad trips on LSD and Mushrooms). Of course its a mood altering drug, no one asserted that, but do you call someone who drinks on the weekend a drunk when they HAVEN'T had a drink? Do people claim that casual drinkers personalities change in their regular lives? No, because its absurd to think that. However, if you smoke ALOT then you WILL receive problems that are inherit with smoking (respiration, breathing, tongue and gum problems. These can all be circumvented using different methods). But as for the plant itself, or rather THC, being any kinds of lethal, there have been zero conclusive studies.</p>

<p>I'm also not angry at all, I just type like that to strengthen my points. Comes across clearer to add emphasis to certain things lol.</p>

<p>About your cousin, not to assert anything, but I highly doubt your cousin didn't know her boyfriend had pot in her car. Thats a risk you take when you allow people to do that. Furthermore, if she truly had no knowledge then there would be no need for her to take the charge, her boyfriend would have just gotten the charge (assuming he actually liked her and admitted it was his). Something seems fishy about that story. Also, I know many people in college (decent ones too) who have been arrested. You may not get into Harvard, but a majority of schools are willing to look over an error.</p>

<p>As for links:</p>

<p>General FAQ, has some good history on the laws, myths about it, etc. Very nice with a number of credible sources cited for every claim:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml#3-1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml#3-1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>For the people who say nothing is being done:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_magazine1.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_magazine1.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Nice article from 1969. Just an FYI used to be a felony punishable by over 20 years in jail, now its been knocked down to a misdemeanor, lower in some states.</p>

<p>Medical Marijuana, Journals, etc:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_medical.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_medical.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Tons of good journals viewable in PDF form for your convience (insert cheesy tv smile)!</p>

<p>On Marijuana Vs Cigarettes (actually very interesting about the tobacco industry and the causes of lung cancer from cigarettes).
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health2.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health2.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Marijuana myths:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>More legality discussions:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_culture11.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_culture11.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>California NORML reports:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth16.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth16.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Interesting flyer (lol):
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_flyer1.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_flyer1.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Another medical use:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1996_fishman_lancet_1/1996_fishman_lancet_1_text.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1996_fishman_lancet_1/1996_fishman_lancet_1_text.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This is a medical study done that laughs in the face of those insane assertions:
<a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1_text.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1_text.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cognitive decline is not associated with marijuana. In fact, the journal claims that in one study, all of the people in test groups who smoked just marijuana lightly or heavy had LESS cognitive decline rates (though it wasn't signifcant). In another, the only real difference was that a female non user experienced an incredibly small amount more of a decline than a male user.</p>

<p>I can continue, but I've left you with a good amount to chew on.</p>

<p>Edit: Journal links, references, books used, etc all on those links as well.</p>

14

<p>I'm have to side with Hyakku. People who totally get trashed/wasted/high and therefore screw up in school are real idiots. Weed doesn't do that, the person smoking the weed does it. </p>

<p>I know plenty of people that smoke weed that are perfectly fine in school, then again I know a lot if idiots who smoke weed but are also failing a lot of classes. Those people would be failing the classes regardless of smoking weed. </p>

<p>And people who have magically transformed (from being a 4.0 student to a 2.0 or lower as LeOs gave an example of) after smoking weed don't know how to limit what they do and its there fault they abused the drug.</p>

15

<p>Exactly, anything taken in excess can get to be too much. </p>

<p>Oh and for people who think I'm trying to validate my own smoking, um...no? I wouldn't make a post online just to make myself feel better, its a waste of time.</p>

16

<p>hyakku: Erowid is a great site for getting information on what kind of high a drug will give you. It's a terrible site to get independent, peer-reviewd medical journal articles. You still haven't given me any. </p>

<p>The only thing you have shown is that marijuana use prevents certain mental, chronic dementia diseases (Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc.). Everyone knows that, and it wasn't what I was disputing. I was disputing that being high doesn't affect a smoker's learning capabilities. Studies using PET scans have shown that it does. Since you claim to have studies showing otherwise, post them please.</p>

<p>As for your "I wasn't responding to just you", bull. You responded directly to my post, and in an itemized format proceeded to misinterpret my comment. You were wrong, deal with it.</p>

17

<p>What are you talking about. Look IN the links. There are at least 16 journals spread out through there.</p>

<p>For example, the one with cognitive thought processes declining, entirely untrue. In fact, as the journal stated, in all four of its control groups in one test, although barely noticeable, the sole marijuana smokers (light/heavy) both experienced a slightly smaller decline compared to non smokers/alcohol users/ etc.</p>

<p><a href="http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1_text.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1/1999_lyketsos_epidemiology_1_text.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That is from the AMERICAN JOURNAL OF EPIDEMIOLOGY from....JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY School of Hygiene and Public health. Top University in the world, and there are a ton of other links to journals if you actually looked at the links instead of just seeing erowid and thinking I copy and pasted the effects section. </p>

<p>As for not responding to just you, I really don't care if you believe me, trust me I wont lose any sleep over it. I find it funny on CC how everyone has to be right or get someone to admit they were wrong, jeez man maybe YOU need some pot :p.</p>

18

<p>Hyakku: The latest thing I've read is that pot actually facilitates or causes increased neurogenesis. There actually is enhanced production of neurons with pot smoking. At least this is what the articles I read said.</p>

<p>In the past I have enjoyed herb -- as well as having gone through periods of time when I really didn't at all. I have known exceptionally smart people who do it and keep it all together. My uncle smoked it every day for probably 30 years and he was really fun and funny -- and certainly smart.</p>

<p>My real problem with it is that it so often makes people kind of boring. This is a huge generalization. And there will always be exceptions. And when I make this generalization I am talking about heavy users of it. One of my best friends is a constant user. He is clearly smart and sharp, but lately I've noticed he's apathetic and a bit closed down. Note that his intelligence and cognition seems not to be affected. He seems as smart as ever. But his spirit and motivation are waning. He's just not as fun to be around as he used to be.</p>

<p>I don't judge people who smoke pot, but my advice to anyone who does would be: make sure you don't make yourself boring or apathetic. Probably the clearest way to do this is to avoid doing it too much.</p>

<p>Oh, and the other thing: no matter what people say, pot clears out short-term memory. So if you have to imbibe, understand, and be able to reference in discussion 500-1000 pages of reading per week, I question if you can really do this smoking dope regularly. I learned the hard way that my memory banks would get cleared out of the readings. I confined smoking to times when I didn't need to read and remember a lot. </p>

<p>None of this is meant to be judgemental. Do you what you're going to do. But science won't always articulate what is obvious. Pot burns some people out.</p>

<p>In other words, I disagree with this:</p>

<p>
[quote]
B. Entirely untrue. Marijuana has NO affect on your personality,

[/quote]
</p>

19

<p>I too believe my cousin knew her bfriend had pot in her car....I think it was her parents that didn't want to believe it....ha! Anyway....the trouble she got into helped straighten her out and she no longer is with that loser and she no longer smokes pot. You can spend the rest of your life trying to make pot smoking ok but it isn't.....it is a drug and it causes people to change in a myriad of ways and if that weren't true you wouldn't be smoking it. It is a way of escaping or altering ones current state and hey, I'm the first to admit that life can be pretty sucky at times but you don't need to add insult to injury by doing drugs......pot is a drug plain and simple and my parents are in their 50's and they tried to use the same old arguments you're using when they were your/our age.....like I said it's a stage so give it up and grow up...."just say no". :)</p>

20

<p>Hyakku, that journal article doesn't contradict me; in fact, it agrees with me. that article is about long-term mental decline in smokers, something I never discussed. I raid that while high, cognitive function is impaired, which that article ever states was observed! I an still right, and still waiting for your article that shows no negative cognitive effects while high.</p>