<p>S interviewed for NROTC Scholarship (Marine Option) yesterday and interviewer stated that he would have to be in top 20% at USNA to get a chance at being a Marine. </p>
<p>Since becoming a Marine is his whole goal (he has been referred to the Foundation program for USNA) - he is having second thoughts about first choice (Foundation then Academy).</p>
<p>Can any current or former USNA folk comment on the 'top 20%' remark?</p>
<p>Consider the source of the comment. Recruiters have goals to meet. If your son attends USNA, the recruiter gets no credit for that accession.</p>
<p>Service selection at USNA is based upon Order of Merit and a process that includes summer training (exposure to each community), briefings/lectures, and interviews.</p>
<p>The number of midshipmen allowed to select Marine Corps billets used to be limited to 16.67 percent of each class. That restriction has been relaxed because of the current operational requirements being placed upon the Marine Corps. Recent classes have had over 20 percent of the Midshipmen select USMC. The Commadant of the Marine Corps' current goal is an accession rate of 24 percent from USNA.</p>
<p>So, if you have to be in the top 20 percent of your class to select USMC, that would mean that everybody in the top 20 percent selects Marine Corps. I don't think so. During my time at the academy, a significant portion of those who selected USMC came from the bottom of the class.</p>
<p>You don't have to be a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to get into the Marine Corps.</p>
<p>Figures can lie, and liars can figure.</p>
<p>Marine Corps is not very competitive at the Naval Academy. In my class, the rumor was that there were three people in the whole class that didn't get Marine Corps that put it down as a first choice... Four years by the bay has definitely taught may to rarely trust Naval Academy rumors, but there is still some truth to the rumor in that its accurate that only a handful out of over 200 did not get Marine Corps</p>
<p>Hawaiimom....my daughter had an EarlyDecision MCROTC to her first choice school....but her heart was always to go USNA...She is confident that as she pursues her goals ( being an Arabic major probably will help alot) of her major and her desire to be USMC - coupled with the needs of our US Military to have more Marine and especially highly trained Marine Officers - you can count on roughly 20-25% of USNA graduates eligible for their 1st choice. The important thing is to KNOW yourself and your abilities. If you get into USNA you already are in the very high percentages of talented/intelligent/gifted young adults. Then you move into that arena where even tenths of points can make or break your final standing. So if you are the type of person that tends to rise to the top of any challenge - versus someone who even at the 'top' of their academics tends to 'coast' just to get by - come the beginning of your Firstie (Senior) year - if you find yourself in the bottom third of the graduating class you may not get your first Service Selection choice. So your son has every ample opportunity to go USMC out of USNA - but it's up to him whether a 'guarantee' is essential - in which case you MCROTC. My daughter wanted a Service Academy experience - hence she took that route. We know many others who wanted a college experience - and as we watch the progression through both these paths - their opportunities and experiences are incredibly different from each other. But come Commissioning Day - they are ALL Officers and only 20% of the Officers graduate Service Academy - roughly - </p>
<p>GreatAmerican - YOUR years may have had a different attitude towards USMC - but according to my kiddo - there WERE people who were turned away from that slot this past year - as going Marine is increasingly viewed as 'the way to go' for many at USNA - and not just a resort to the bottom third.</p>
<p>
[quote]
S interviewed for NROTC Scholarship (Marine Option) yesterday and interviewer stated that he would have to be in top 20% at USNA to get a chance at being a Marine.
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<p>One word. Two syllables.</p>
<p>First syllable rhymes with "Full".</p>
<p>Second syllable rhymes with "Hit".</p>
<p>In recent years, the Marine Corps has never been "a resort" for the bottom third. Nor would I call it, "the way to go" (I really wouldn't call any particular service selection, "the way to go", because each mid is different, but if your looking at popularity, then approximately 400 mids each year try to get aviation, which far outstrips any others). Its extremely rare that anyone gets stuck with Marines, however, the reality of the situation is that the demand for Marine officers at the Academy has gone way up while the number of Marine hopefuls has not grown at the same rate. The Academy is graduating nearly 50 more Marine officers than they did just a few years ago. Some years, especially last year, there wasn't a huge interest in the Marines. For example, in my Leatherneck platoon they were thirty mids... In particular, there was one that stood well behind the rest. A very nice guy who I know pretty well, but the reality of the situation was that he seemed to fail at almost every graded event. He ended up getting Marine Ground on service selection. I actually know of several cases of people who were not recomended by their Leatherneck SPC, but were able to get it anyway. </p>
<p>The Marines are far from an "inferior" service selection. However, the reality of the situation, atleast last year, was that the demand for Marine officers out of the Academy nearly outstripped the number of people who had it as their first choice. Once again, this is not anything to downplay the importance or an injection of personal views, instead, its just the reality that I experienced.</p>
<p>... btw, to put GA's post into context, my old Batt-O, an 85 grad (i think), once told me that they actually had Marine recruiters actively recruiting at the Academy. The way he told the story, it sounded no different then what I saw with military recruiting in high school.</p>
<p>Many thanks everyone! I will share your wisdom with son-who-wants-to-be-a-marine. He has wanted this for a number of years and clearly intends to find a way to get it. He has a number of adult mentors who served as Marines, from WWII to present day. All good people and great adults, can't ask for much more.</p>
<p>The point of my original post on this thread is that the demand from the U.S. Marine Corps far exceeds the supply at the academy. The Corps wants 24 percent but they are only getting 20 percent. If a midshipman is serious about selecting USMC they have an extremely high probability of getting their first choice.</p>
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<p>Attitude isn't the issue. My point is that a midshipman can be at the bottom of his/her class and still get into the Marine Corps. My class actually ran out of Marine Corps billets during service selection but that was an anomaly for the Class of 1980. My class had a nuclear power draft orchestrated by the late ADM Rickover but there was a loophole to avoid the draft by selecting Marine Corps. Many of my classmates selected USMC with an Air Option to guarantee getting into naval aviation. The result was that many of the die hards at the bottom of the class who wanted USMC ended up in Surface Line. For my class, the needs of the Navy took precedence over individual desires.</p>
<p>John McCain was third from the bottom of his class and look where he is today.</p>
<p>I've heard from my firsties this year that a few qualified people who put marines as a top choice and are going subs because subs need people. But that was only about 25 or so guys. Usually about 90% of a class gets there first or second choice. The others get lower. This year more people wanted to go SWO than any other year and people who are putting Marines as second or third choice are actually getting it. You still have to be pretty qualified to be a Marine here and so they want the best.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting this question. All the replies have been very informative. My goal is also to become a Marine.</p>
<p>Jack: Quick question... has something changed in relation to nuke spots this year? In the past, aka the past four years in particular, you had to have nuke as your top choice to be considered for the spot... In fact, as I looked into the possibility of Nuke SWO last year, you had to declare nuke as your top choice before you even went to the mandatory interview, so that if you were offered a nuke spot, be it surface or sub, you had to take it... How has the process changed that people without nuke as their top spot are getting it?... btw, its still a few weeks till service selection, so how would marine hopefuls know they were going nuke unless they voluntarily did so?</p>
<p>NROTC is better if you want marine corp option. Its a guarantee, while USNA doesn't guarantee anything.</p>
<p>I know of at least one Mid that had nuke as his 2nd choice and was "drafted" into the nuke program. He was voluntold prior to his interview that he was going to be a submariner. He's okay with it, but I've heard that he is not the only one that this has happened to this year. The word is that there are not enough going nuke and/or NFO. The service assignment process is changed a little this year. I've heard some but not enough to be sure of how it is going to work. Perhaps one of the Mids on the list could give better intel.</p>
<p>One of my classmates, Thomas P. D'Agostino, was drafted by ADM Rockover into the nuclear power program. Tom was one of numerous midshipmen who were drafted from the Class of 1980. </p>
<p>Today, Tom is the Under Secretary for Nuclear Security of the National Nuclear Security Administration at the Department of Energy; that position is equivalent to a 4-star flag officer. The Director of Naval Reactors, NAVSEA 08 (ADM Rickovers organization), reports to Tom. That's what you call poetic justice.</p>
<p>Huh, I guess in the end its always needs of the Navy, but it really seems unfortunate to get drafted for something like subs, aviation, or anything for that matter that includes intensive schooling after graduation unless you really wanted it... I wonder what would happen if you went into the nuke interview, got all the questions wrong and then flat out told them that you did not have interest in becoming a nuke. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if there only throwing people in there who have it as their second choice... btw though, its not unusual for NFO to be hurting for people, they'll just fill the spots with pilot hopefuls</p>
<p>In years past, each class was broken, by class ranking, into quartiles. 25% of the Marine selection was taken from each quartile. It spread the Marines across the entire spectrum. GA, this may have been the procedure in the early '80s. Please, no jokes about the smart vs the dumb Marines.</p>
<p>Subs are a voluntary force. One cannot be totally drafted. They have to have it somewhere in their selection process. I guess, though, if they didn't "volunteer", the results could be made to be so dismal that they wished they had.</p>
<p>NROTC may be a garuntee however if you really want USMC from the academy you will get it. Nuke is completly volunteer. If you are invited to go to a nuke interview and pass then you will probably get it. You do however have the option to refuse the interview which means you are not going to be a nuke. Nobody is forced into subs or nuke power. For those of you who want to become academic class rank does not play a huge part. What the Marine Corps is looking for is a strong military standing, physical fitness, your ability to act like an officer and stay out of trouble, leadership position and most importantly leatherneck. All of the things listed above are things that are up to you to do. If you want Marines out of the academy you can get it. Do not let this sway your decsion. What you have to look at when making the decision between an academy or NROTC program is where you are going to excel, and become a better officer. For some it is the academy environment where for others it is a NROTC program at a civilian school. This should be the determining factor.</p>
<p>A benifit of the academy is the ability to change your mind. I can tell you of countless people who entered the academy wanting to be a Marine, went to leatherneck and went in a completly oppposite direction. Likewise there are many that entered wanting to be an aviator or SWO and ended up wanting Marines. You will get plenty of experiences at the academy through summer training to be exposed to all parts of Navy and Marine life. It is difficult sometimes to make a decision what you want to do until you are exposed to it.</p>
<p>any questions let me know</p>
<p>You can change your mind in NROTC also. I came to Notre Dame a Navy Option, and I am now in the process of switching over to Marine Option. Also, in NROTC you will have the opportunity to do more Marine style PT and training on a daily basis, and you will go to OCS. Going to OCS is a big deal in the Marine Corps, and I would consider myself at a disadvantage if I did not go.</p>
<p>^^^^^
Ditto. Navy option NROTC midshipmen can choose USMC for service selection but not vive versa. Marine option NROTC midshipmen spend two summers at MCB Quantico attending OCS.</p>