That is the plan. The drain pipe is open on my end. It is partially buried. Water runs into my yard. My engineer said it shouldn’t be allowed. My foundation could be weakened. I kinda doubt it tho. It is far from my building.
@schoolstruggles Thanks for well thought out suggestions. The town won’t take it up. Private matter for them. The code enforcer may agree to come out but nothing gets resolved if the neighbor ignores it. I just want it out of my property before they can take adverse possession.
Obviously, getting lawyer is a hassle, and expensive, but I would consider talking to one.
Even if you had no major intent to take your neighbor to court, your lawyer could write a letter to the neighbor, warning them that you have a legitimate reason to take them to court.
Yes, it might not do anything, but there’s still a chance that it might encourage your neighbor to start paying attention to the property line and drainage issues.
In my neck of the woods, a code violation is entered in the building and zoning department’s computer system. And if any present or future property owner wants to pull a new building permit, the property is flagged and no new permit will be issued until the code violation has been cured.
I am no expert but a) divided a property (our house and a lot on which we had built my wife’s studio) into two buildable lots and sold the studio lot to a developer before selling our house; and b) purchased a property which had been subdivided (we got the prime 2 acres on the river with the house and they kept the 8.5 acre horse farm). In both cases, I needed to negotiate easements. I know a lot about deals generally but not real estate and really needed to engage an attorney. In the former case, the couple across the street was litigious. The couple had sued every other adjacent neighbor except for us. So, I did the subdivision very, very carefully so that there were no grounds to oppose it. Even so, a developer who had tussled with my neighbor for years and ultimately defeated him (and built a nice house next to the couple) declined to bid for fear of more litigation with the jerky neighbor. The sale of the lot went through with no problem and the developer did not get any objections from our former crappy neighbors.
Because your neighbor does not seem particularly cooperative at the moment, you need to create some leverage. To do this, I would ask your lawyer about the potential problems you could cause for your neighbor. You are looking for things that are costs that you would impose on your neighbor until he takes action. There have been a couple of suggestions (flagging the property so it can get no new building permits; informing the property insurer of the code violations). Presumably there is the possibility of a civil suit. There may be other steps. I would also ask you attorney what problems the neighbor might be able to take against you.
I would not take any of those actions without first talking to the neighbor and seeing if this can be resolved without any actions on your part. Do you know anyone who talks to/influences your neighbor?
@BunsenBurner Hope not! The water comes out pretty far from the foundation, about 60’ away and 5-6’ below.
@sushiritto Good chance the code was updated after the drain is installed. The drain could have been grandfathered. I don’t know how they would handled that. It may not be as good a leverage as it could be.
@shawbridge I own the land. Isn’t that enough leverage? The drain is squatting in my land. They will have to show me why I can’t evict them. Of course, I talked to the neighbor. That’s the first thing I did. They claim it is not their responsibility. From where I stand, I have all the leverage. It is my land, I don’t need the drain or anything else from them. If I remove it, whoever responsible will show up,.
@Iglooo, I’m not a land use expert. But, my impression from above is that someone more knowledgeable above said that you might be liable if you removed their pipe and generally need to be compliant plus with laws/regs pertaining to water drainage. Assuming no liability (per above), you could, in principle, cut their drain pipe at the boundary of your property. However, that might not be the best outcome for you.
Moreover, you also want to stop them from other non-compliant behavior. As you said, the town won’t enforce your rights. I’m operating with limited facts here, but based upon what you said, you would have to go to court to enforce your rights and that would likely be expensive. Unless you are willing to go to court, your leverage is limited. I’d be looking, in addition, for inexpensive ways to impose removable costs on them, which you will remove when they agree to comply and actually do comply.
Before you would do anything, it might be worth thinking about the best outcome for you. Is it getting them to shift the drainage to the street might be preferable? Is there anything they could do for you that would be beneficial?
That kinda depends on the groundwater table and how the grade between the two properties. A partially-buried open-ended flexible plastic pipe is really just complete nonsense. It’s not permanent and it could cause you problems in the future.
But questions, does the “pipe” dump onto the 7.7’ easement around the property or does it cross over that easement onto your property? Could you install a real pipe, which this plastic flexible hose pipe connects to, whether in the easement around the properties or the property line and redirect any groundwater away from both your homes and to the street, where there should be gutters or swale, which take water to its final resting place?
Around these parts, flexible plastic pipe is often used to drain a residence’s downspouts away from the structure, or a perforated one can be used as a french drain. It may not last as long as a more rigid pipe, but all pipes break down over time. Just ask all of the homeowners in our city whose houses were built on top of RCP storm drains, or worse - TCP sewer drains. It is an expensive nightmare.
So with that in mind, nobody here can really tell you what to do based on your description. You really need to see the ground condition and know the laws in your area. It sounds like you’ve already had a knowledgeable engineer out there and is familiar with the site. You really need to be asking him/her.
Certainly nothing (almost) lasts forever, but reinforced concrete pipe (RCP) is made to last 100-150 years, a lifetime and more. It’s installed just about everywhere. Also, copper pipes installed in houses will last 50-100 years. Heck I have some clay pipe on my property that’s still working great since the 1960’s.
If there’s a problem with RCP, cast iron or copper, as a few examples, then there must be something else going on. I’ve not known of any problems in our area or in other areas in CA with these types of rigid pipes, assuming they were constructed and installed properly, and barring an earthquake.
@shawbridge They have to dig deep and long to divert it to the street. There is nothing they could do for my benefit. I would have liked to be friendly with a neighbor. That’s the only card they had. They’ve been acting so pretty that I lost interest in that.
@sushiritto Nonsense or not, it stayed there well over 10 years. Still functioning. In a few years, they could take the adverse possession. I don’t have a choice. I have to act on it now and remove it one way or other. They will have to find a solution to their drain issue themselves, not me. I am guessing they have to dig a hole in their yard and fill it with crushed rock and let the ground absorb the output. They can consult their own engineer.
@ClassicMom98 I am not really worried about the foundation. I think it will be ok. I just do not like to have some one’s else’s drain in my yard. As I mentioned, I may get stuck with it forever through adverse possession if I don’t act on it in the next few years.
Redirecting groundwater anywhere you want it to go around here can get one into a heck of lot of trouble. PA is pretty strict about trying to keeps streams, etc, clean due to those in our area eventually flowing to the Chesapeake.
As I and others have said, check your local laws. Elsewhere might not care as much - or they might. The engineer you had out should know local laws IF he regularly deals with groundwater.
As for us, groundwater supplies us with “pay the bills money.” It’s a lot of what H does as a living. He occasionally gets to deal with clients who “did what they wanted” and then ended up needing him to fix things for them. As I said, it pays the bills (nicely), though most check first to be pre-emptive instead of also getting warned, fined, or stop-work orders.
I wasn’t suggesting to redirect it to “anywhere.” Engage an engineer and get a plan approved by the municipality.
What I was attempting to say is that I personally wouldn’t use a partially-buried open-ended flexible pipe for anything, except maybe to direct water away from your home’s from gutter and downspouts.
I’ve sat on our stormwater complaint committee for almost 25 years, and I listen to many stories from homeowners with crumbling RCP/TCP pipes under their houses. Yes, they may be 50-100 years old, but they still do break down. But our area uses flexible pipe all of the time for residential use for minor permanent stormwater systems.
@Iglooo The reason I mentioned the foundation is that I was concerned about the neighbor’s house. Just like he isn’t supposed to create adverse effects on your property, I could see if you did something to adversely affect is - even if it was installed illegally on your property, I could see that being a messy legal issue. As I’ve said many times, you really need to talk to the local people who know your specific codes and laws.
They have an open rain spout pouring water down, landing at about 2’ from the wall. The drain I would be diverting will add to it minimally, about 25% if that. In addition, it will be further away from the foundation at about 10’ from the same wall. Any damage to the foundation will be from their open spouts. There are three of them. They come out at about 8-9’ above the ground, three bridal veils. They haven’t damaged the foundation as far as I know for over 10 years. My diversion will be much less water, much further away. It couldn’t damage it if it wanted.
I’m not going to give my CV, but I’m extremely familiar with the materials being discussed here. My point was that there’s no comparison in my mind between the materials in terms of length of service.
Sure go ahead and drain storm water away from your gutter and downspouts using “partially buried flexible plastic pipe,” that’s fine by me, assuming it’s a short distance. Longer runs, I’d use a more serious materials as I mentioned.
But RCP, copper, cast iron, etc. are always used for both offsite and onsite infrastructure improvements in towns, cities, counties, etc. Why? They last a REALLY long time, no not forever, assuming they were built (concrete mix) and installed properly. If a contractor crushed one or the connection wasn’t made properly, then that’s a defect in workmanship or materials. I’ve not known one to fail due to age yet.
Honestly, I don’t know what the OP is dealing with. I don’t know the severity or the magnitude of the problem, but as a material, I’d prefer to use a longer lasting one, if the plan is to live there a very long time.
They haven’t damaged the foundation as far as I know for over 10 years. My diversion will be much less water, much further away. It couldn’t damage it if it wanted.